The Investigation

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Irvinecommuter said:
irvinehomeowner said:
To me this just seems like any other type of campaigning.

Couldn't either party do this? What makes a Russian campaigning for Trump any more powerful than an American? Or a Mexican? Or a Canadian?

And again, if this effort affected voting perception so much, how did Clinton win the popular vote?
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Yes...but it's different when it's a foreign source.  It is the same reason why foreign companies/nationals cannot contribute to campaigns.
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That's not really a good comparison but that still doesn't explain how Russian "disenfranchising" is any more powerful than domestic efforts.

Because you don't need to affect everyone or even most people...you just need to disenfranchise some and encourage others.  Trump won the electoral college with like a 50,000 vote margin across like 3 to 4 states.
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Again, this can be done by either party domestically... does Russia have some special encouragement powers that the Democrats or Republicans can't get at Walmart?
 
The Russians want the US to fail.
They figured Trump is a better candidate for this then Hillary
They want a polarized US citizenship fighting each other and getting nothing done
They are probably for impeaching trump as it adds more chaos.

The more you argue and take up extremist ideals, the more they win.
 
irvinehomeowner said:
Irvinecommuter said:
irvinehomeowner said:
To me this just seems like any other type of campaigning.

Couldn't either party do this? What makes a Russian campaigning for Trump any more powerful than an American? Or a Mexican? Or a Canadian?

And again, if this effort affected voting perception so much, how did Clinton win the popular vote?
Click to expand...

Yes...but it's different when it's a foreign source.  It is the same reason why foreign companies/nationals cannot contribute to campaigns.
Click to expand...

That's not really a good comparison but that still doesn't explain how Russian "disenfranchising" is any more powerful than domestic efforts.

Because you don't need to affect everyone or even most people...you just need to disenfranchise some and encourage others.  Trump won the electoral college with like a 50,000 vote margin across like 3 to 4 states.
Click to expand...

Again, this can be done by either party domestically... does Russia have some special encouragement powers that the Democrats or Republicans can't get at Walmart?
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No...but motivation is important.  Dems and Republicans are trying to get elected to make the US "better".  Russians are not.
 
zubs said:
The Russians want the US to fail.
They figured Trump is a better candidate for this then Hillary
They want a polarized US citizenship fighting each other and getting nothing done
They are probably for impeaching trump as it adds more chaos.

The more you argue and take up extremist ideals, the more they win.
Click to expand...

Welcome to the data analytics rabbit hole.
 
morekaos said:
Obama?s Meddling in Foreign Elections: Six Examples

While the media obsess over an alleged Russian conspiracy to collude with Donald Trump to affect America?s 2016 presidential election, what about Obama?s interference in the elections of other countries? Most Americans have no idea that President Obama meddled in elections all over the world. And apparently, the media decided there?s no reason for Americans to know about this illegal activity.

Indeed, in 2016, the Los Angeles Times did a story on how America has interfered with other nation?s elections in the past, but they stopped short of mentioning the various foreign elections Obama tried to influence. But the same article reports that Obama ?slapped Russia with new penalties for meddling in the U.S. Presidential election? by hacking into Democratic and Republican computer networks and selectively releasing emails.? Hypocrisy check, anyone?

https://spectator.org/obamas-meddling-in-foreign-elections-six-examples/
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Sure...US also bombed Middle Eastern country to questionable effect in the past so only fair that Middle Easterners be allowed to bomb the US.

Only Trumpsters don't understand that this is the new war/battleground that we are fighting on.  Instead, they're still stuck on pointing to the scoreboard.
 
Thats not my point. ALL administrations have meddled in other countries elections. How has changed but the goals have not.  Russia tries, China tries, even our allies like the Israelis and Brits try...nothing new.
 
morekaos said:
Thats not my point. ALL administrations have meddled in other countries elections. How has changed but the goals have not.  Russia tries, China tries, even our allies like the Israelis and Brits try...nothing new.
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So...we should just be like...meh.  Who cares? 
 
morekaos said:
Kinda, at the very least we shouldn't be acting like we need the fainting couch as if this is new news.  This game has been going on forever, we should try and stop it but I doubt it affects anything one way or the other.  "I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!"
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Yeah...I have no more energy for this discussion.  I am sure you have the same reaction if Hillary was in the White House and went through the events as Trump has. 

Keep pointing at the scoreboard.
 
fortune11 said:
What's the over/under on when he starts attacking Biden's dead wife and kids?
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He might but i guarantee he will sink his teeth deep into Hunter. 

Joe Biden's 2020 Ukrainian nightmare: A closed probe is revived

Ukrainian officials tell me there was one crucial piece of information that Biden must have known but didn?t mention to his audience: The prosecutor he got fired was leading a wide-ranging corruption probe into the natural gas firm Burisma Holdings that employed Biden?s younger son, Hunter, as a board member.

U.S. banking records show Hunter Biden?s American-based firm, Rosemont Seneca Partners LLC, received regular transfers into one of its accounts ? usually more than $166,000 a month ? from Burisma from spring 2014 through fall 2015, during a period when Vice President Biden was the main U.S. official dealing with Ukraine and its tense relations with Russia.

The general prosecutor?s official file for the Burisma probe ? shared with me by senior Ukrainian officials ? shows prosecutors identified Hunter Biden, business partner Devon Archer and their firm, Rosemont Seneca, as potential recipients of money.

Shokin told me in written answers to questions that, before he was fired as general prosecutor, he had made ?specific plans? for the investigation that ?included interrogations and other crime-investigation procedures into all members of the executive board, including Hunter Biden.?

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/436816-joe-bidens-2020-ukrainian-nightmare-a-closed-probe-is-revived
 
hello, this is what obstruction of justice really looks like

Massachusetts judge who helped illegal immigrant escape ICE arrest indicted, federal authorities say

A Massachusetts judge and court officer accused of helping an illegal immigrant flee an Immigration and Customs Enforcement agent waiting to take him into custody were indicted Thursday by a federal grand jury for obstruction of justice and three other counts, officials said.

Newton District Court Judge Shelley M. Richmond Joseph and the court officer, identified in court documents as Wesley MacGregor, face several charges stemming from an April 2, 2018 incident in which the pair allegedly helped Jose Medina-Perez get out of the courthouse via a back door in order to elude the ICE agent who sought Medina-Perez.

?This case is about the rule of law. The allegations in today?s indictment involve obstruction by a sitting judge, that is intentional interference with the enforcement of federal law, and that is a crime," U.S. Attorney for the District of Massachusetts Andrew Lelling said Thursday.

Joseph and MacGregor were both charged with obstruction of justice, aiding and abetting; obstruction of a federal proceeding, aiding and abetting and conspiracy to obstruct justice, Lelling said. MacGregor was also charged with perjury before a federal grand jury.

"As public servants, all of the officers in the court make a promise ? a promise to serve the people?s interest above all else. Today we know this promise has been broken,? said Peter Fitzhugh, special agent in charge of the Homeland Security Investigations in Boston, who led the investigation.

Medina-Perez, a twice-deported illegal immigrant with a fugitive warrant for drunken driving in Pennsylvania, had been in Joseph's courtroom in order to be arraigned on drug charges, the Boston Globe previously reported.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/massachusetts-judge-who-helped-illegal-immigrant-escape-ice-arrest-indicted-federal-authorities-say
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Irvinecommuter said:
morekaos said:
Thats not my point. ALL administrations have meddled in other countries elections. How has changed but the goals have not.  Russia tries, China tries, even our allies like the Israelis and Brits try...nothing new.
Click to expand...

So...we should just be like...meh.  Who cares? 
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I care because if it is possible to rig an election, I want to be sure that it's prevented in future ones.

I still just don't see how the Russians allegedly did that, esp with the electoral college system in place... maybe I just don't understand how that works.
 
irvinehomeowner said:
Irvinecommuter said:
morekaos said:
Thats not my point. ALL administrations have meddled in other countries elections. How has changed but the goals have not.  Russia tries, China tries, even our allies like the Israelis and Brits try...nothing new.
Click to expand...

So...we should just be like...meh.  Who cares? 
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I care because if it is possible to rig an election, I want to be sure that it's prevented in future ones.

I still just don't see how the Russians allegedly did that, esp with the electoral college system in place... maybe I just don't understand how that works.
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Actually..electoral college system make it much more likely to be rigged..you don't need to affect a majority of voter...you just need to sway the margin in the battleground states.
 
Irvinecommuter said:
morekaos said:
Kinda, at the very least we shouldn't be acting like we need the fainting couch as if this is new news.  This game has been going on forever, we should try and stop it but I doubt it affects anything one way or the other.  "I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!"
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Yeah...I have no more energy for this discussion.  I am sure you have the same reaction if Hillary was in the White House and went through the events as Trump has. 

Keep pointing at the scoreboard.
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Yeah that?s what I have been saying

But opening the recents posts link to read TI is like stepping over a purple dumpster fire . You want to look away and keep scrolling but it gets exhausting .

Wish there was a ?recent posts ? link that excluded all this stuff
 
i can't wait for the democrat presidential hopefuls to embarrass themselves on a national stage after they resume from lunch. got my popcorn ready!
 
morekaos said:
Wow, Mazie Hirono is bat sh#t crazy! I love it!!
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Yes you love it and keep loving it but don?t treat the forum as your personal diary and again pollute the ?recent posts? link  .... No one else cares about this  !
 
That is partially my point...nobody but political animals care about this investigation now.  Watching the "candidates" perform comical logic jui jitzu is endlessly entertaining though.
 
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