The 2020 Presidential Election
- Thread starter Liar Loan
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Nobody is going to hunt down people and punish them because of who they voted for. That?s just more fear mongering which is typical of right wing ?journalism.? It?s the same playbook every single time. Fear, fear, and more fear. I?d suggest getting outside of that bubble.
As far as the tax returns go, if there?s no issues, why not release them, if there?s nothing to hide, like every other President has done.
You will see the New York AG in the mix next year for sure.
You and Trump will be the last holdouts.
It's over man... Luke dropped the torpedo down the shaft. Rebuild the Death Star during the next 4 years.
Yes. I was giving you a hard time. You?re more Red than a Trumpster.
irvinebullhousing
Well-known member
Once transition to the admin took place and more Republican distance themselves from Trump, I expect legal matters pilling up against him and his family members.
His brands and resort are tarnished. The only people that will use it are true Trumpsters with deep pocket.
His brands and resort are tarnished. The only people that will use it are true Trumpsters with deep pocket.
sgip
Well-known member
The Media does not elect anyone.
Al Gore worked the legal system until mid December - to contest one state - yet many want to discourage corrected vote tallies in multiple states??
Are there irregularities in every election? Sure. Is there a greater chance of irregularities in mass mailing of ballots? Yes. We know at this point there is a tally error inherent in the software used in many states. That alone should be re-examined.
Georgia's margin of error is still within re-count requirements so that is for all intents and purposes a requirement.
What's troubling most to me isn't the recount, retabulation, or litigation that will still flow forward. All that will sort out in time. In 2016 I don't recall Trump supporters suggesting that names of people in the Obama-Biden administration should be hunted down, shunned, denied employment. Here we are only 4 days past the election and the hard left (AOC, etc) is calling for the compiling names with penalties and punishment for members of this administration. Google "Trump Accountability Project" and see for yourself how vitriolic the hard left has become. This is not a conspiracy theory. This is the stuff of the NKVD, SAVAK, MSS, and ISI. Do we see anyone rational within the Biden/Harris team tamping this kind of stuff down? No. That should worry every reader of this post.
If Biden really want's the nation to reconcile (something I don't believe is the case, but we move on...) he could take the path that President Ford did - pardoning Richard Nixon. It was a very unpopular decision with the hippie generation, but the right decision that helped heal the post-Watergate nation. When Lincoln passed, very few if any of his reconciliation recommendations were meaningfully enacted. This allowed the rise of extremist Southern Democrats and other hate groups. Peace and reconciliation requires action, not speeches.
Now isn't the time for Biden to float this idea. Once the litigation ends, once a clear and convincing victor can be named, after the inauguration, then that will be the time to act in the better interests of the Country, not the Party. We'll see.
My .02c
Al Gore worked the legal system until mid December - to contest one state - yet many want to discourage corrected vote tallies in multiple states??
Are there irregularities in every election? Sure. Is there a greater chance of irregularities in mass mailing of ballots? Yes. We know at this point there is a tally error inherent in the software used in many states. That alone should be re-examined.
Georgia's margin of error is still within re-count requirements so that is for all intents and purposes a requirement.
What's troubling most to me isn't the recount, retabulation, or litigation that will still flow forward. All that will sort out in time. In 2016 I don't recall Trump supporters suggesting that names of people in the Obama-Biden administration should be hunted down, shunned, denied employment. Here we are only 4 days past the election and the hard left (AOC, etc) is calling for the compiling names with penalties and punishment for members of this administration. Google "Trump Accountability Project" and see for yourself how vitriolic the hard left has become. This is not a conspiracy theory. This is the stuff of the NKVD, SAVAK, MSS, and ISI. Do we see anyone rational within the Biden/Harris team tamping this kind of stuff down? No. That should worry every reader of this post.
If Biden really want's the nation to reconcile (something I don't believe is the case, but we move on...) he could take the path that President Ford did - pardoning Richard Nixon. It was a very unpopular decision with the hippie generation, but the right decision that helped heal the post-Watergate nation. When Lincoln passed, very few if any of his reconciliation recommendations were meaningfully enacted. This allowed the rise of extremist Southern Democrats and other hate groups. Peace and reconciliation requires action, not speeches.
Now isn't the time for Biden to float this idea. Once the litigation ends, once a clear and convincing victor can be named, after the inauguration, then that will be the time to act in the better interests of the Country, not the Party. We'll see.
My .02c
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
Doesn?t matter to me what happens to Trump after this.
All I know is that the people decided, not the media. That?s what democracy is about.
If there was credible evidence of voter fraud... where is it?
It?s time to move on from divisive politics, there is the pandemic, racial inequality and the economy we need to tackle.
All I know is that the people decided, not the media. That?s what democracy is about.
If there was credible evidence of voter fraud... where is it?
It?s time to move on from divisive politics, there is the pandemic, racial inequality and the economy we need to tackle.
Heritage Foundation (conservative think tank) was monitoring the election and found a 0.0000007% incidence of fraud
I do think that there should be criminal, non political investigations into Trump and his people so this never happens again. Many of them have already been arrested over the past few years so this is nothing new. We also need to reduce Presidential power.
Finally, what?s up with the Democrats? They?re already fighting on day one. Center is fighting the Progressive wing. AOC, who I liked up to this point, is fighting everyone. No wonder they almost lost two slam dunk elections. They are living up to their stereotype of infighting when they should be unifying and consolidating power.
Oh and still waiting for Trump?s tax returns and health care plan. I?m sure it will be here in two weeks. ?
I do think that there should be criminal, non political investigations into Trump and his people so this never happens again. Many of them have already been arrested over the past few years so this is nothing new. We also need to reduce Presidential power.
Finally, what?s up with the Democrats? They?re already fighting on day one. Center is fighting the Progressive wing. AOC, who I liked up to this point, is fighting everyone. No wonder they almost lost two slam dunk elections. They are living up to their stereotype of infighting when they should be unifying and consolidating power.
Oh and still waiting for Trump?s tax returns and health care plan. I?m sure it will be here in two weeks. ?
inv0ke-epipen
New member
Does anyone have any evidence of significant mail in voter fraud? Soyboy green?s posts are interesting but seem like pure speculation.
Biden telling people to vote by mail, trump telling people to vote in person, and those states having already planned to count vote by mail later seems to explain everything. Occam?s razor and all that.
All for recount/validation of the votes, but I have a feeling trump wont accept the results. Doubt in the democratic process is going to f us, even if unwarranted, so need to address somehow. Hopefully he doesn't go full birther again.
Biden telling people to vote by mail, trump telling people to vote in person, and those states having already planned to count vote by mail later seems to explain everything. Occam?s razor and all that.
All for recount/validation of the votes, but I have a feeling trump wont accept the results. Doubt in the democratic process is going to f us, even if unwarranted, so need to address somehow. Hopefully he doesn't go full birther again.
sgip
Well-known member
All investigations are political.
@Icey If we can assume for a moment the New York Times really had Trump's tax returns, even they said no irregularities were found. A person pays as much or little as the law allows. That's not a crime.
As for overnight proof of fraud - wow - have attention spans really shortened by that much?
May I recommend a Google Search for "LBJ and Box 13". It gives a historical timeline of that fraud which can be happening now. The discovery and subsequent investigation took time - as will this.
There remains a big difference between the MAGA chant of "Lock Her Up" for criminal acts committed by a person in office as a public servant and "Anyone who voted or worked for Trump is a racist pig and should be harrassed out of their job" . 70 some odd million people will disagree with that view. Demonizing 1/2 of the voting population is no way to start uniting this nation.
My .02c
@Icey If we can assume for a moment the New York Times really had Trump's tax returns, even they said no irregularities were found. A person pays as much or little as the law allows. That's not a crime.
As for overnight proof of fraud - wow - have attention spans really shortened by that much?
May I recommend a Google Search for "LBJ and Box 13". It gives a historical timeline of that fraud which can be happening now. The discovery and subsequent investigation took time - as will this.
There remains a big difference between the MAGA chant of "Lock Her Up" for criminal acts committed by a person in office as a public servant and "Anyone who voted or worked for Trump is a racist pig and should be harrassed out of their job" . 70 some odd million people will disagree with that view. Demonizing 1/2 of the voting population is no way to start uniting this nation.
My .02c
Soylent Green Is People said:
Nobody is going to hunt down people and punish them because of who they voted for. That?s just more fear mongering which is typical of right wing ?journalism.? It?s the same playbook every single time. Fear, fear, and more fear. I?d suggest getting outside of that bubble.
As far as the tax returns go, if there?s no issues, why not release them, if there?s nothing to hide, like every other President has done.
You will see the New York AG in the mix next year for sure.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
Sorry SGIP... again, the chance for mail fraud to affect the margins of victory is so small. Any type of operation that can pull off enough numbers of mail fraud would surely be caught in today's "eyes everywhere" society.
To prove your side you're asking us to reference something from over 70 years ago that wasn't even a presidential election?
Read something more recent:
https://www.cnet.com/news/mail-in-voting-fraud-is-nearly-impossible-to-commit/
As I've said in response to your contentions many times, it's not easy to do it at a scale that is needed to have an effect. Do you really understand what is necessary to commit voter fraud by mail?
Like the article says:
Claiming voting by mail is fraudulent is almost like Russian social media hacking (which I still don't really think "rigged" the 2016 election). It's just misinformation and I'm surprised you keep holding on to it.
To prove your side you're asking us to reference something from over 70 years ago that wasn't even a presidential election?
Read something more recent:
https://www.cnet.com/news/mail-in-voting-fraud-is-nearly-impossible-to-commit/
As I've said in response to your contentions many times, it's not easy to do it at a scale that is needed to have an effect. Do you really understand what is necessary to commit voter fraud by mail?
Like the article says:
Claiming voting by mail is fraudulent is almost like Russian social media hacking (which I still don't really think "rigged" the 2016 election). It's just misinformation and I'm surprised you keep holding on to it.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
morekaos said:
You and Trump will be the last holdouts.
It's over man... Luke dropped the torpedo down the shaft. Rebuild the Death Star during the next 4 years.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
morekaos said:
Yes. I was giving you a hard time. You?re more Red than a Trumpster.
sgip
Well-known member
It's now as if even questioning voter fraud is verboten. No matter if it was 70 years ago or 2 weeks ago ( https://sanangelolive.com/news/politics/2020-10-28/texas-ag-investigating-voter-fraud-scheme-texas ) it remains an open possibility.
If the issue was a Biden defeat, you're saying they wouldn't fight on behalf of their 70m voters? There are still people today who will falsely claim Bush stole the election from Gore. Imagine the carry forward of distrust if nothing was done to rationally and legally contest the results.
This has to play out. Let it, then move on. To not do so is to do a great injustice to the integrity of our elections.
My .02c
If the issue was a Biden defeat, you're saying they wouldn't fight on behalf of their 70m voters? There are still people today who will falsely claim Bush stole the election from Gore. Imagine the carry forward of distrust if nothing was done to rationally and legally contest the results.
This has to play out. Let it, then move on. To not do so is to do a great injustice to the integrity of our elections.
My .02c
morekaos
Well-known member
The larger point is those 70 million of your fellow citizens are not going away. Biden is automatically hobbled with half the electorate for the next four or less years he is President. This whole movement is not over. Again, I love the game, next inning coming up!!
inv0ke-epipen
New member
Yeah definitely ratify the results, not going to argue against that, but I?m also not going to jump to the conclusion that there is fraud, or even that fraud is likely, with with no evidence (or before the evidence comes in).
With the current information I?ve seen, voter fraud is possible but I can?t see how it is likely. The election played out exactly as predicted. More trumpers in person, more bidens in the mail, and some states like pa being hamstrung to not start counting mail ballots until after in person ones.
Look at oc, they counted mail in as soon as they came in, showing strong dem leads before the in person votes came in and results then moved towards republicans.
I guess you could say mail in is defrauded by dems, and polls that show dems prefer mail in also controlled by dems, and that evidence of fraud is covered up be dems, but me personally I prefer my tin foil for cooking.
Burden of proof, as with gore, is with the claimant. Bring the goods or gtfo.
With the current information I?ve seen, voter fraud is possible but I can?t see how it is likely. The election played out exactly as predicted. More trumpers in person, more bidens in the mail, and some states like pa being hamstrung to not start counting mail ballots until after in person ones.
Look at oc, they counted mail in as soon as they came in, showing strong dem leads before the in person votes came in and results then moved towards republicans.
I guess you could say mail in is defrauded by dems, and polls that show dems prefer mail in also controlled by dems, and that evidence of fraud is covered up be dems, but me personally I prefer my tin foil for cooking.
Burden of proof, as with gore, is with the claimant. Bring the goods or gtfo.