The 2020 Presidential Election
- Thread starter Liar Loan
- Start date
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Don't be a pansy.
Why stop at signing up for his contest? Do what I did and put real money on Yang.
You can still get in on Yang at +800 today
https://www.sportsbettingdime.com/politics/democratic-party-presidential-nominee-odds/
Yang's freedom dividend isn't all that different from Milton Friedman's negative income tax.
Socialism is government seizing means of production. This is not that. Yang's FD is capitalism where income does not start at 0. Consumers having money to spend is pro market.
This is why you see many conservatives and libertarians supporting Yang.
Lastly, I am not aware that Trump supports anything close to Milton Friedman's negative income tax. That's something I can get behind.
It would depend on where you land on the household income spectrum. Yang's Freedom Dividend is funded by a VAT. If you are in the top 12% of Income, you will be a net loser. Bottom 88% of the households come out net winners.
https://twitter.com/scottsantens/status/1108831665160421378
I wouldn't be so sure of Biden. Yang just surpassed Kamala Harris in California polls today.
https://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/andrew-yang-kamala-harris-california-2020-14447245.php
Sure companies will definitely try to pass that on to the consumers. VAT is a consumption tax. For references, the VAT pass through rate is about 50% in Europe.
If you use the same pass through rate as Europe, You will need to spend approximately 240k per year on VAT items to offset your 12k Freedom Dividend.
Even if we were to use 100% VAT pass through, you would still have to spend approximate 120k per year on VAT items in order to offset your 12k Freedom Dividend.
Let's use 100% pass through because Yang has suggested to tailor the VAT to exempt consumer staples and ramping it up on luxury items. If that is implemented, it would be a bigger hit on wealthy households that buys more luxury goods. I think most people on TI would fall into the top 20% of US households. So let's use the higher number.
The mean consumption for bottom 20% of US household (2015) is $24,355. The mean consumption for the top 20% household (2015) is $110,424
A 10% VAT would draw $2,435 from the poorest 20% and $11,042 from the richest 20%
Combined with a $12k UBI, that's a net benefit of $800/mo for the bottom 20% and a net benefit of $80/mo for the top 20%
https://twitter.com/scottsantens/status/1108830884722032640
not sure how that data is being calculated because it's not transparent how the mean consumption is derived, but according to the linked bls survey income after taxes for the third 20% is $46,807 and their mean consumption is $45,861? and it's even worse for the lowest 20% and second 20%. does the mean consumption in this case include housing? because a 10% vat on housing will definitely not fly.
Kenkoko said:
Don't be a pansy.
Why stop at signing up for his contest? Do what I did and put real money on Yang.
You can still get in on Yang at +800 today
https://www.sportsbettingdime.com/politics/democratic-party-presidential-nominee-odds/
Liar Loan
Well-known member
If you give the middle class an $800 tax cut, as Trump did, it's criticized as irresponsible for the budget. If you promise to pay people $1,000 per month, it's hailed as forward thinking and visionary. It's funny how these socialist kooks love the idea of getting a $1,000 check in the mail, but revile having their take home pay increased via lower taxes. The net effect is absolutely the same, except Yang's plan is 15x as costly as Trump's.
Liar Loan said:
Yang's freedom dividend isn't all that different from Milton Friedman's negative income tax.
Socialism is government seizing means of production. This is not that. Yang's FD is capitalism where income does not start at 0. Consumers having money to spend is pro market.
This is why you see many conservatives and libertarians supporting Yang.
Lastly, I am not aware that Trump supports anything close to Milton Friedman's negative income tax. That's something I can get behind.
Kings said:
It would depend on where you land on the household income spectrum. Yang's Freedom Dividend is funded by a VAT. If you are in the top 12% of Income, you will be a net loser. Bottom 88% of the households come out net winners.
https://twitter.com/scottsantens/status/1108831665160421378
Kings said:
I wouldn't be so sure of Biden. Yang just surpassed Kamala Harris in California polls today.
https://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/andrew-yang-kamala-harris-california-2020-14447245.php
Kings said:
Sure companies will definitely try to pass that on to the consumers. VAT is a consumption tax. For references, the VAT pass through rate is about 50% in Europe.
If you use the same pass through rate as Europe, You will need to spend approximately 240k per year on VAT items to offset your 12k Freedom Dividend.
Even if we were to use 100% VAT pass through, you would still have to spend approximate 120k per year on VAT items in order to offset your 12k Freedom Dividend.
Kings said:
Let's use 100% pass through because Yang has suggested to tailor the VAT to exempt consumer staples and ramping it up on luxury items. If that is implemented, it would be a bigger hit on wealthy households that buys more luxury goods. I think most people on TI would fall into the top 20% of US households. So let's use the higher number.
The mean consumption for bottom 20% of US household (2015) is $24,355. The mean consumption for the top 20% household (2015) is $110,424
A 10% VAT would draw $2,435 from the poorest 20% and $11,042 from the richest 20%
Combined with a $12k UBI, that's a net benefit of $800/mo for the bottom 20% and a net benefit of $80/mo for the top 20%
https://twitter.com/scottsantens/status/1108830884722032640
Kenkoko said:
not sure how that data is being calculated because it's not transparent how the mean consumption is derived, but according to the linked bls survey income after taxes for the third 20% is $46,807 and their mean consumption is $45,861? and it's even worse for the lowest 20% and second 20%. does the mean consumption in this case include housing? because a 10% vat on housing will definitely not fly.
sgip
Well-known member
May I propose the following for those who support Candidate Yang and the "Freedom Dividend".....
1) The average middle income is about $80k per year. The average upper income is $180k per year (see stats below)
https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0912/which-income-class-are-you.aspx
2) If your combined family income is lets say somewhere in between these figures ($130k and above) you're considered "upper middle class, to upper class". Is this you? Of course it is, dear reader... you live in The O.C.
3) Now get your 2018 year end credit card and bank statements. How much did you spend at Amazon and Costco for the year? I'm guessing that it's somewhere in the $10k to $20k range. Using the median, let's use $15k Why these two companies? Good question. Why not Apple, or Tesla, or IAC or some of the other companies that will ultimately pass through any VAT being charged to consumers - upper middle class consumers such as yourselves? Amazon and Costco are easy to chart as ongoing expenses.
4) As a Yang supporter, you feel strongly that the "Freedom Dividend (AKA: The robbing of Peter to pay Paul) is an acceptable economic model, please demonstrate your commitment to this belief. Write your own Freedom Dividend check starting today for $125 ($15k x 10% VAT / 12) to any of the following charities:
www.aplahealth.org
www.someonecareskitchen.org
www.bgca.org
www.ocfoodbank.org
and continue to do so for the next 13 months until the November election.
Not willing to do so? Why not? What is preventing a Yang supporter from doing the same thing Candidate Yang is doing - spending his own money to demonstrate how well this works. Nothing. Nothing is stopping a Yang supporter from putting their money where their mouth is, other than pure, unadulterated "Do what I say, not what I do" thinking. Break the cycle of hypocrisy dear Freedom Dividend supporters. Open your checkbooks and show the world the benefits of your personal "Freedom Dividend" offered for the betterment of your fellow citizen.
This "Freedom Dividend" talk is really, really great in theory - until asked to put it into practice on a personal level. At that time, whenever one is compelled to write earned money from a personal account to a complete stranger, all I expect to see or hear are crickets.
My .02c
1) The average middle income is about $80k per year. The average upper income is $180k per year (see stats below)
https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0912/which-income-class-are-you.aspx
2) If your combined family income is lets say somewhere in between these figures ($130k and above) you're considered "upper middle class, to upper class". Is this you? Of course it is, dear reader... you live in The O.C.
3) Now get your 2018 year end credit card and bank statements. How much did you spend at Amazon and Costco for the year? I'm guessing that it's somewhere in the $10k to $20k range. Using the median, let's use $15k Why these two companies? Good question. Why not Apple, or Tesla, or IAC or some of the other companies that will ultimately pass through any VAT being charged to consumers - upper middle class consumers such as yourselves? Amazon and Costco are easy to chart as ongoing expenses.
4) As a Yang supporter, you feel strongly that the "Freedom Dividend (AKA: The robbing of Peter to pay Paul) is an acceptable economic model, please demonstrate your commitment to this belief. Write your own Freedom Dividend check starting today for $125 ($15k x 10% VAT / 12) to any of the following charities:
www.aplahealth.org
www.someonecareskitchen.org
www.bgca.org
www.ocfoodbank.org
and continue to do so for the next 13 months until the November election.
Not willing to do so? Why not? What is preventing a Yang supporter from doing the same thing Candidate Yang is doing - spending his own money to demonstrate how well this works. Nothing. Nothing is stopping a Yang supporter from putting their money where their mouth is, other than pure, unadulterated "Do what I say, not what I do" thinking. Break the cycle of hypocrisy dear Freedom Dividend supporters. Open your checkbooks and show the world the benefits of your personal "Freedom Dividend" offered for the betterment of your fellow citizen.
This "Freedom Dividend" talk is really, really great in theory - until asked to put it into practice on a personal level. At that time, whenever one is compelled to write earned money from a personal account to a complete stranger, all I expect to see or hear are crickets.
My .02c
