Straw Poll regarding gas milage. and possible Oil consumption Ideas

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ventouxbob_IHB

ventouxbob_IHB

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I noticed in the debate last night I think, Both candidates mentioned sacrifices. I think smaller cars with less Horsepower would go a long way in reducing OIL consumption. perhaps this is an example of a sacrifice we should make or at least encourage.



Would you support legislation to either.

1-credit people who own high mileage or low displacement cars say below 140hp



2. A penalty for exessive consumption Tax for low milage or high hp. (this is what is in place in italy BTW)



I would like to know avg mileage with current cars.



what do you drive?



Would you have bought something different if you knew about pending high gas prices?



If you have a minivan or SUV would you consider a small wagon in the future if it got much better mileage?



If you are getting bad mileage do you plan to get a car with better mileage in the near future?



I will start the poll.



I have a 2002 ford focus wagon it gets about 24mpg combined (28-30 hwy if you drive slow)

2004 MINI Cooper s it gets 24-28mpg combined (30-36hwy if you go speed limit)

2006- Vespa 150 (55-65mpg) I had a vespa for 1 year sold it to pay off wedding Bills. it was great will probably get one again the future.



I had a perfectly good Jeep Wrangler that I sold in 2006, when gas was 2.80. It was a guzzler. getting 12-18mpg. the revenue from the Jeep enabled the puchase of the Ford. Cash.
 
Gas prices don't affect me much. My husband and I commute together to work, 8 miles round trip. We drive a minivan pretty much out of necessity, there aren't many cars that can handle two car seats, carpools with neighbor kids and the occasional extra adult family and friend passengers. If we didn't have the space, more than one car would be needed, thus wiping out any gas savings a smaller car would afford us. Living close to work and choosing activities close to home saves a lot.
 
It's too complicated and unfair based on the vehicle. It also doesn't encourage people to live closer to work, etc.

Europeans have the right idea - just tax the gas, economics will take care of the rest.



You can both have a no speed limit autobahn, and save gas (as everyone drives slower to conserve gas).
 
[quote author="ventouxbob" date=1223534156]I noticed in the debate last night I think, Both candidates mentioned sacrifices. I think smaller cars with less Horsepower would go a long way in reducing OIL consumption. perhaps this is an example of a sacrifice we should make or at least encourage.



Would you support legislation to either.

1-credit people who own high mileage or low displacement cars say below 140hp



2. A penalty for exessive consumption Tax for low milage or high hp. (this is what is in place in italy BTW)



I would like to know avg mileage with current cars.



what do you drive?



Would you have bought something different if you knew about pending high gas prices?



If you have a minivan or SUV would you consider a small wagon in the future if it got much better mileage?



If you are getting bad mileage do you plan to get a car with better mileage in the near future?



I will start the poll.



I have a 2002 ford focus wagon it gets about 24mpg combined (28-30 hwy if you drive slow)

2004 MINI Cooper s it gets 24-28mpg combined (30-36hwy if you go speed limit)

2006- Vespa 150 (55-65mpg) I had a vespa for 1 year sold it to pay off wedding Bills. it was great will probably get one again the future.



I had a perfectly good Jeep Wrangler that I sold in 2006, when gas was 2.80. It was a guzzler. getting 12-18mpg. the revenue from the Jeep enabled the puchase of the Ford. Cash.</blockquote>


Horsepower isn't the problem. Weight is. My Toyota Rumion gets 24 MPG with 170hp and has a curb weight of almost 3700 pounds. My 1965 Mustang gets 26 MPG, has 350hp, and a curb weight of 2900 pounds.



Amazing how stuff like side curtian airbags and door bars start to pack on the pounds.
 
[quote author="no_vaseline" date=1223552441]

Amazing how stuff like side curtian airbags and door bars start to pack on the pounds.</blockquote>


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEXcLYqRcSs">Agreed. </a> Just incase you didn't know, the X1 is a full electric car.
 
- well so far the numbers are crap.



a vast majority myself included get under 30mpg. that sucks BIG time.



what ever happened to the honda CRX HF in the 80s it got 50MPG.



-they have many models of cars in europe that get 60-40MPG. I know I have rented and driven them.



I dont know what its going to take but we really need to use less gas. this is pathetic.
 
[quote author="ventouxbob" date=1223598831]- well so far the numbers are crap.



a vast majority myself included get under 30mpg. that sucks BIG time.



what ever happened to the honda CRX HF in the 80s it got 50MPG.



-they have many models of cars in europe that get 60-40MPG. I know I have rented and driven them.



I dont know what its going to take but we really need to use less gas. this is pathetic.</blockquote>


This is, in large measure, Ralph Nader's fault. Seatbelts, car seats, airbags, door bars, anti lock brakes, offset crash tests..........all make the car heavier and you need a bigger car if you've got kids than you did in the past (carseats). If you have two kids under six and they have a birthday party, how do you get them all in your rig unless you've got a bus (full sized SUV)?



The HF you mention got dumped because it won't pass more stringant emissions, nor crash (it weighed in at less than 2000 pounds).



Those Euro models you cite won't pass US crash tests. Plus, thier fuel is like $8 a gallon because of higher taxes designed to get folks to drive less and use less fuel. Strap a $4 a gallon gas tax on top of fuel and we'll be there lickety split.



The problem you are describing is the same as what the state of California has with it's budget. You want a car that is safe, legal, functional, and easy on gas. Oh, it has to look cool too. The citizens of California want increasing services and refuse to pay the taxes to get them. Or Steve Thomas' "pent up demand" nonsense.



All would do well to realize thier desires aren't going to be satisfied without some major concessions on thier part - either saftey, utility, or milage has to go. Pick one.



FWIW, it's impossible to get a new car to actually "do" 30 MPG outside of the Prius or the Honda Fit. Interestingly enough, the Honda Fit has the same curb weight at the Civic from 15 years ago...........and they both get the same milage. The biggest solution you can do is simple - drive less.
 
[quote author="GOTTI" date=1223557354][quote author="no_vaseline" date=1223552441]

Amazing how stuff like side curtian airbags and door bars start to pack on the pounds.</blockquote>


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEXcLYqRcSs">Agreed. </a> Just incase you didn't know, the X1 is a full electric car.</blockquote>


I had a customer who had a customer who had one of those (I think it had a 2.0L GM Ecotec engine in it). You had to wear a helmet to drive it (bugs in face) and I'm sure it would of been absolutely no fun in the rain. Just sayin'.
 
[quote author="no_vaseline" date=1223602875][quote author="ventouxbob" date=1223598831]- well so far the numbers are crap.



a vast majority myself included get under 30mpg. that sucks BIG time.



what ever happened to the honda CRX HF in the 80s it got 50MPG.



-they have many models of cars in europe that get 60-40MPG. I know I have rented and driven them.



I dont know what its going to take but we really need to use less gas. this is pathetic.</blockquote>


This is, in large measure, Ralph Nader's fault. Seatbelts, car seats, airbags, door bars, anti lock brakes, offset crash tests..........all make the car heavier and you need a bigger car if you've got kids than you did in the past (carseats). If you have two kids under six and they have a birthday party, how do you get them all in your rig unless you've got a bus (full sized SUV)?



The HF you mention got dumped because it won't pass more stringant emissions, nor crash (it weighed in at less than 2000 pounds).



Those Euro models you cite won't pass US crash tests. Plus, thier fuel is like $8 a gallon because of higher taxes designed to get folks to drive less and use less fuel. Strap a $4 a gallon gas tax on top of fuel and we'll be there lickety split.



The problem you are describing is the same as what the state of California has with it's budget. You want a car that is safe, legal, functional, and easy on gas. Oh, it has to look cool too. The citizens of California want increasing services and refuse to pay the taxes to get them. Or Steve Thomas' "pent up demand" nonsense.



All would do well to realize thier desires aren't going to be satisfied without some major concessions on thier part - either saftey, utility, or milage has to go. Pick one.



FWIW, it's impossible to get a new car to actually "do" 30 MPG outside of the Prius or the Honda Fit. Interestingly enough, the Honda Fit has the same curb weight at the Civic from 15 years ago...........and they both get the same milage. The biggest solution you can do is simple - drive less.</blockquote>




They have plenty of safe cars in europe that get great mileage.



I have seen them and driven them.



there is a diesel MINI cooper than gets 60mpg.



Americans are to fat and schlep to much crap. thats why the big car thing. it will change.eventualy or we can bankrupt own selfs fighting over Oil reserves.



how a bout a bmw 3 series with less HP. they have this car in europe right now.



How do you think europeans with kids get around? with out a big mini van or SUV?? the room for kids arguement is crap basicly.
 
[quote author="ventouxbob" date=1223606408]



They have plenty of safe cars in europe that get great mileage.</blockquote>


"Safe?" Or "Legal to sell in the US?" <em>They won't pass NTHSA for crash, bumper heights, door bars, and a laundry list of other mandated saftey and emission related issues.</em> If they did, they would be here now.



Bob Lutz was doing the rounds several months ago asking for congress to pass a dispensation so they can bring these euro market vehicles in "as a stopgap" untill they can develop simlar models for the US market. He was quoted in Autoweek and widely cited in other media.



You've been storming around the politics forum for some time showing your ass. Here, you are completely out to lunch. While I agree in principal that we need to improve our fuel usage, you fail to recognize the complexity of bringing in an Opal or Vaxhaul or Ford Europe model into the American market is not nearly as easy as loading up a container ship full of cars and dumping them off in Long Beach.



It won't matter, it appears that GM is first up to be busto.
 
<blockquote></blockquote>FWIW, it?s impossible to get a new car to actually ?do? 30 MPG outside of the Prius or the Honda Fit. Interestingly enough, the Honda Fit has the same curb weight at the Civic from 15 years ago...........and they both get the same milage. The biggest solution you can do is simple - drive less.



<blockquote></blockquote>


My Corolla gets 32+ on combo city/hwy and 39.5 pure hwy. You can't schlep 5 kids around in it, but it's still quite roomy.
 
The real cause of the problem is very simple, it isn't the cars, it is city design and societal. Our urban/suburban land use mix is sprawled. Outside of a few dense city centers, mass transit is very hit or miss. Go on tell us to use mass transit to get from OC to wide range of LA county jobs or vice versa.



To complicate matters, we've become two worker households in a worker-mobile society. Living closer to work isn't a simple matter if one is in LA and the other Irvine. Or if you are close and then transfer jobs.



The final coup de grace is congestion, we've squandered infrastructure investments and create massive time, energy, and money wastes as people sit nearly parked on the roadways. The congestion has lead to a variety of other issues attempting to make us of the time thereby increasing it.
 
-americans want the HP. scion just changed the XA and XB models bumped the HP up to 140 from 100.

the milage is worse now.



It very ironic that we are so in love with the HP but we really cannot drive fast any where (legaly)



we should just slap a 100% tax on all gas. and use that to fund the war (for Oil) I mean the war on terror.



I know its a big rant i,m on ( No Vas your right) Im just sick of everyone bitching about gas prices when they drive a 220 hp 3500lb car.



my friend bought a G35s 307HP she gets 15-17mpg and complains about it all the time.



I told her what did you expect its 300HP. DUH!!
 
I voted for 30-35 which is really a lie because I do most of driving within the Irvine city limits. I've noticed when I visit relatives in Northern California or friends in San Diego I can go 425 miles (on an 11 gallon tank) before having to fill up. During my day to day driving in Irvine, sitting at red lights for two minutes even though there is no other car around me, I usually have to fill my tank up before I reach 300 miles).
 
[quote author="no_vaseline" date=1223604640][quote author="GOTTI" date=1223557354][quote author="no_vaseline" date=1223552441]

Amazing how stuff like side curtian airbags and door bars start to pack on the pounds.</blockquote>


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEXcLYqRcSs">Agreed. </a> Just incase you didn't know, the X1 is a full electric car.</blockquote>


I had a customer who had a customer who had one of those (I think it had a 2.0L GM Ecotec engine in it). You had to wear a helmet to drive it (bugs in face) and I'm sure it would of been absolutely no fun in the rain. Just sayin'.</blockquote>


Yes, the Brammo Ariel Atom comes with a GM small block. Give me a paintball mask and goggles, I'm set.



I have a 2000 Yamaha R1 which I used as my primary means of transportion(Before the kid). A rainsuit and caution always got me to my destination in one piece in inclement weather.



I think more people need to see that electric cars are the future.
 
[quote author="stepping_up" date=1223607557]<blockquote></blockquote>FWIW, it?s impossible to get a new car to actually ?do? 30 MPG outside of the Prius or the Honda Fit. Interestingly enough, the Honda Fit has the same curb weight at the Civic from 15 years ago...........and they both get the same milage. The biggest solution you can do is simple - drive less.



<blockquote></blockquote>


My Corolla gets 32+ on combo city/hwy and 39.5 pure hwy. You can't schlep 5 kids around in it, but it's still quite roomy.</blockquote>


Wow. I can't get even close in my Scion. Max occupancy 4 1/2.



[quote author="ventouxbob" date=1223609189]-americans want the HP. scion just changed the XA and XB models bumped the HP up to 140 from 100.

the milage is worse now.</blockquote>


I have one of those new XB models. It's curb wieght is now 3700 pounds, up from around 3000 on the old unit.



The reason? The new model passes crash, and has eight airbags. It NEEDS 165hp.



<blockquote>It very ironic that we are so in love with the HP but we really cannot drive fast any where (legaly)</blockquote>


I use it all the time to merge and pass donkeys.



<blockquote>we should just slap a 100% tax on all gas. and use that to fund the war (for Oil) I mean the war on terror.



I know its a big rant i,m on ( No Vas your right) Im just sick of everyone bitching about gas prices when they drive a 220 hp 3500lb car.



my friend bought a G35s 307HP she gets 15-17mpg and complains about it all the time.



I told her what did you expect its 300HP. DUH!! </blockquote>


I have a 350hp car that gets better milage than my 165hp trinket of a Toyota gets.
 
[quote author="GOTTI" date=1223612368]



I think more people need to see that electric cars are the future.</blockquote>


Now if we could just get past that whole 50% loss from the transformer in the charger we'd be all set.



If you really believe electric is the future, you're foolin' yourself.
 
[quote author="no_vaseline" date=1223612674][quote author="GOTTI" date=1223612368]



I think more people need to see that electric cars are the future.</blockquote>


Now if we could just get past that whole 50% loss from the transformer in the charger we'd be all set.



If you really believe electric is the future, you're foolin' yourself.</blockquote>


How so? I think battery technology will improve range and recharging times as time goes on.
 
[quote author="GOTTI" date=1223612835][quote author="no_vaseline" date=1223612674][quote author="GOTTI" date=1223612368]



I think more people need to see that electric cars are the future.</blockquote>


Now if we could just get past that whole 50% loss from the transformer in the charger we'd be all set.



If you really believe electric is the future, you're foolin' yourself.</blockquote>


How so? I think battery technology will improve range and recharging times as time goes on.</blockquote>


Nowhere did I mention the battery. I mentioned the charger. The battery isn't killing the planet, the coal we are burning in the powerplant that feeds the transformer inside the charger that gives up 50%-70% of it's consumed energy in radiated heat is.



Don't make the mistake of assuming because you aren't filling up at the pump this shit is clean. Somebody is burning some hydrocarbon somewhere to make this all possible.
 
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