Solar Panel Batteries & Additional Panel Installation

[Cornflakes]

akkord,

that is exactly the logic I went by and put few more panels. Just finished a year last month and had few $ credit after all NEM calculations, min charges etc. Did utility benefit by buying from me at wholesale rate of measly 4 cents per kW? Yes. But, I am ok with it as my incremental costs of few extra panels were small.

Blackouts I get it, there is value there and everyone can assign $ amount to that value.

Personally, blackouts don't scare me, especially in SoCal Weather. I don't have medical equipment at home that must run uninterrupted. I might have few $ worth of food to throw away if blackout lasted a bit longer but that is small potatoes.

 

[hurijo]

Yup, powerwalls from a financial perspective usually doesn't make sense at the moment. You can maybe hedge against SCE widening the gap between peak and off-peak prices, but that's just speculation. I was hoping the price would drop more, but Tesla has proved me wrong so far. They've increased the price twice of Powerwall in the last 6 months (from $6500 to $7500), but I think that's more related to supply/demand issue.

 

[akkord]

Yup, powerwalls from a financial perspective usually doesn't make sense at the moment. You can maybe hedge against SCE widening the gap between peak and off-peak prices, but that's just speculation. I was hoping the price would drop more, but Tesla has proved me wrong so far. They've increased the price twice of Powerwall in the last 6 months (from $6500 to $7500), but I think that's more related to supply/demand issue.

At that price point for batteries, even if the spread widens between peak/non peak, with 7-9k, throwing on more panels will offset the gap, and probably won't cost 7-9k, and incentives are there for both products. 

The first EV and solar panels aren't as efficient as today's, and I feel like the batteries are still in an early phase.  As time goes on, there will be more competitors, efficiency improves, and prices drop. 

 

[ndmaynard]

akkord,

that is exactly the logic I went by and put few more panels. Just finished a year last month and had few $ credit after all NEM calculations, min charges etc. Did utility benefit by buying from me at wholesale rate of measly 4 cents per kW? Yes. But, I am ok with it as my incremental costs of few extra panels were small.

Blackouts I get it, there is value there and everyone can assign $ amount to that value.

Personally, blackouts don't scare me, especially in SoCal Weather. I don't have medical equipment at home that must run uninterrupted. I might have few $ worth of food to throw away if blackout lasted a bit longer but that is small potatoes.

What kind of panels did you install and how much comparison did you do vs. other products in the market?  How much are installation costs?  Are Tesla panels considered more price-efficient compared to powerwall batteries? 

 

[akkord]

akkord,

that is exactly the logic I went by and put few more panels. Just finished a year last month and had few $ credit after all NEM calculations, min charges etc. Did utility benefit by buying from me at wholesale rate of measly 4 cents per kW? Yes. But, I am ok with it as my incremental costs of few extra panels were small.

Blackouts I get it, there is value there and everyone can assign $ amount to that value.

Personally, blackouts don't scare me, especially in SoCal Weather. I don't have medical equipment at home that must run uninterrupted. I might have few $ worth of food to throw away if blackout lasted a bit longer but that is small potatoes.

What kind of panels did you install and how much comparison did you do vs. other products in the market?  How much are installation costs?  Are Tesla panels considered more price-efficient compared to powerwall batteries?

I did my install/research over a year and a half ago, while another friend did his own research, ultimately we both went with one of the guys I vetted due to price and how easy he was to work with, they were extremely helpful throughout the whole process.  I'm sure prices have gone down, panels are probably higher wattage now too.  I believe Tesla has competitive pricing, but some ppl have horror stories and others have said they were great, so probably depends on who you work with at Tesla. 

I have Panasonic 330W panels and Enphase IQ7 micro inverters.  Paid 2.65/watt which was an awesome deal at the time pre-incentives, referred multiple people from TI and others to Infinity Solar back then.  I can't say what's a good price now though, but I believe LG and Panasonic panels are still rated 1-3 on most solar sites.  I didn't want a battery at the time, so never did too much research into those, still waiting for prices to come down.

 

[Hugo Township]

Out of curiosity, what was the model of that battery?

I?ve looked for Powerwall alternatives but I have yet to find one with similar capacity.

Sunpower claimed it was their proprietary battery but I don't have any more details. The salesperson told us not to buy it.

 

[Cornflakes]

akkord,

that is exactly the logic I went by and put few more panels. Just finished a year last month and had few $ credit after all NEM calculations, min charges etc. Did utility benefit by buying from me at wholesale rate of measly 4 cents per kW? Yes. But, I am ok with it as my incremental costs of few extra panels were small.

Blackouts I get it, there is value there and everyone can assign $ amount to that value.

Personally, blackouts don't scare me, especially in SoCal Weather. I don't have medical equipment at home that must run uninterrupted. I might have few $ worth of food to throw away if blackout lasted a bit longer but that is small potatoes.

What kind of panels did you install and how much comparison did you do vs. other products in the market?  How much are installation costs?  Are Tesla panels considered more price-efficient compared to powerwall batteries?

Remember, since I installed the panels, prices have come down quite a bit. I installed 12kW system (36 panels) of Panasonic solar panels. Paid $30k for it before tax incentive. Back then, I had researched Tesla, LG and Panasonic panels and had done some price comparison with Costco program, the premium efficient panels that I don't recall the name, and the popular names. Infinity Solar was my vendor of choice and they did excellent job.

So, Dec 2019 through Dec 2020, I used something like 12000 kW and produced like 18000 kW. Excess production sold to the utility at wholesale rate took care of the non bypassable charges and left with $70 credit to roll into next NEM year.

The way I see it, 12000 kW usage would have cost me at least $2400 in the electric bill (lower estimate). If I invested $21k in solar after tax credit, that is 11.42% return. Not bad.

THe numbers today are even better with lower costs per kW installation.

 

[marmott]

Sunpower claimed it was their proprietary battery but I don't have any more details. The salesperson told us not to buy it.

My main reason for looking at battery storage is to take over in case of an outage, really for the fridges, water heater, furnaces and lights to be able to function, not really planning to run AC from batteries. Not far from my area this year they had outages until November, it was not hot anymore but so dry because of the lack of rain that fire risk was still very high. Outages in the middle of summer is manageable but as it get into fall and winter it's a bit more problematic imho.

There are new solar inverters that allow the house to be power from solar while the grid is down but my older inverters are not like this. I have not look into replacing the inverters but it sounds like more trouble than adding batteries.

The last option is to look at installing a transfer switch to be able to plug in a portable generator or install a fixed gas power generator but it feels like going backward.

 

[zubs]

I wrote this on AUG 8, 2019 regarding solar

So I spent $18,000 on this array after tax incentivesIt should be paid off in 2026.What if I had put $18,000 into AMZN instead of this solar array. How much will it be by 2026?Today Amazon is $1,813/share (10 shares)We'll have to revisit this post in 7 years.

I would have made $12,000 if I had put that money into AMZN as of today MAR 16, 2021.

 

[Hugo Township]

Sunpower claimed it was their proprietary battery but I don't have any more details. The salesperson told us not to buy it.

They also quoted us $9k to remove our metal roof, add a new tar composite roof, and add metal roof shingles back to maintain a uniform cosmetic appearance.

Even without the metal roof problem that most people won't have, Sunpower's cost blew us away:

Sunpower
$26,855 4.10 kW system (10 panels)
~$16,000 battery, (just going from memory, no written quote provided). Only one size was available
$42,855 for 4.10 kW system + battery

Even without battery, Sunpower required like a 24 year payback period, lol

Tesla
$18,700 for 4.08 kW system + battery
even cheaper if you just want the system

 

[zubs]

Some news about solar.
https://www.barrons.com/articles/solar-stocks-sink-on-proposed-california-rule-changes-51615916935?siteid=yhoof2

The electric companies are trying to find more revenue streams as more and more people are getting panels. 

 

[Cornflakes]

I remember reading some studies that said Sunpower panels are few percentage points more efficient than LG, PANA etc.
I also remember that their price was somewhere north of 200% of LG, PANA etc.

 

[Hugo Township]

I remember reading some studies that said Sunpower panels are few percentage points more efficient than LG, PANA etc.
I also remember that their price was somewhere north of 200% of LG, PANA etc.

Yeah, I'm totally open to the idea that Sunpower panels are better than Tesla panels, but holy crap at the price diff

 

[Kenkoko]

Tesla has stopped taking orders for Powerwall, its home battery pack, if it is not linked to a new solar panel project.
https://electrek.co/2021/03/15/tesla-stops-taking-orders-powerwall-without-solar-panels/

For those who want the Powerwall, it looks like Tesla solar panels / roof tiles will be come bundled.

 

[Cornflakes]

Heard that news today. As a Tesla shareholder, I'd wishfully think that increasing price on powerwall, and then restricting supply this way means they either have much higher demand of powerwalls or they want to use all batteries they can to meet the demand for cars. Also coincides with them raising prices on performance models which presumably take more battery packs.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Need to see what is coming down the pipeline...a lot of discussions about alternative batteries including solid state. 
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20201217-renewable-power-the-worlds-largest-battery

 

[aquabliss]

Anyone else looking at Solar recently?  I think I'm about ready to pull the trigger.  Probably going without battery for now then plan to add the Powerwall 3 when/if it hits the market in a year or 2.  If the Powerwall 3 rumor specs are accurate I think I can live off-grid with 1 Powerwall for 3-4 days.  Hurry up Elon!

I actually saw a news story on it today but I'm pretty sure it was an April Fools post:https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/elon-musk-resilience-day/

 

[CalBears96]

Anyone else looking at Solar recently?  I think I'm about ready to pull the trigger.  Probably going without battery for now then plan to add the Powerwall 3 when/if it hits the market in a year or 2.  If the Powerwall 3 rumor specs are accurate I think I can live off-grid with 1 Powerwall for 3-4 days.  Hurry up Elon!

I actually saw a news story on it today but I'm pretty sure it was an April Fools post:https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/elon-musk-resilience-day/

I'm planning to get solar when I move into my new Bluffs 2 since we just ordered a Model 3 and a Mach E. 

We're planning to go with Sunrun. According to their website, they would only install Powerwall if you're a new customer. I'm still not sure if I want to get Powerwall since it goes for $10k.

 

[hurijo]

Anyone else looking at Solar recently?  I think I'm about ready to pull the trigger.  Probably going without battery for now then plan to add the Powerwall 3 when/if it hits the market in a year or 2.  If the Powerwall 3 rumor specs are accurate I think I can live off-grid with 1 Powerwall for 3-4 days.  Hurry up Elon!

I actually saw a news story on it today but I'm pretty sure it was an April Fools post:https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/elon-musk-resilience-day/

That definitely reads like an April fool?s article. I?m in the process of getting solar installed, no battery (yet).

 

[ndmaynard]

Well after the recent NEM 3.0 decision, I finally have the catalyst I needed to move forward with my solar expansion and battery plan that inspired this thread. Gotta make sure the new install is done by April to get grandfathered into NEM 2.0. My current thinking is to try to get close to 100% solar power coverage and get 1-2 batteries to manage power usage during evenings.

Would appreciate any input from those who have done expanded solar installs - is 100% solar coverage the recommended path or would you suggest a little less/more? From my understanding of NEM 1.0 / 2.0, any excess solar power is sold to the utility at retail rates which should be like .25 - .30 per kwh - is that correct?

Similar question on solar batteries - I will probably go with Tesla Powerwall but is 1-2 sufficient?