Snowflakes

[Irvinecommuter]

Eye, I am more than acquainted with Phil/Am struggles, politics and shortcomings. Like I said, my family was instrumental in securing Philippine Independence from the US.  Bit don't kid yourself, like any third world nation the corruption and dirty dealing is overwhelming.  In many ways Independence cut off their nose despite their face.  US rule there had its good points.  Look at the sate of affairs are there now.  Not ideal.

What does that have to do with Asian Americans?

 

[morekaos]

See?  You assume (without knowing anything about a person)  I should have one but I don't. I am American,  Family descent is PI but that changes nothing about me. I am more than comfortable in my "skin".  All these snowflakes are the ones who itch so much wallowing in self-loathing guilt.  I got none of that.

Don?t be ashame of your race. You should learn about the Philippines struggles in America. I took an Asian American course and learned about the struggles of Asians living in America. Things changed after the civil rights movement. So I find it odd that you are against certain people. But in essence if it wasn?t for MLK protest and march across the US. We would probably be segregated. What are your thoughts?

Eye, I never said I was ashamed of it.  My family pretty much runs that joint. My Uncle was Vice President a few years back and my great Grandfather was President After the war.  I just don't "identify" with it when asked where I am from.  I am an American and proud of that and its heritage. You think social castes and racism are bad here?  It's crippling in the Philippines.  We are eons ahead of almost every country in our treatment of minorities and immigrants. One of the biggest lies about us that snowflakes believe and perpetuate.

I love this mentality...WE DON'T NEED TO DO ANYTHING BECAUSE OTHER PLACES ARE WORSE!

I agree that racism is much worse elsewhere in this world but it does not make it right.  Poverty and starving people are worse elsewhere...does not mean that it is okay in the US. 

No, but honestly, it will always be here.  Our current snowflake populous act as if WE are the problem and are somehow worse than all the others.  We never acknowledge that in many ways we are better off that most everyone else.  That our system has done more to advance these issues than any other on earth.  These fools only want to blame and bemoan our nations wickedness.  Its that attitude that tries to legitimize the foolish and trivial complaints pointed out in this thread that perpetuate this self loathing, ungrateful view of our own country,  it's that attitude that sickens me. 

 

[Irvinecommuter]

See?  You assume (without knowing anything about a person)  I should have one but I don't. I am American,  Family descent is PI but that changes nothing about me. I am more than comfortable in my "skin".  All these snowflakes are the ones who itch so much wallowing in self-loathing guilt.  I got none of that.

Don?t be ashame of your race. You should learn about the Philippines struggles in America. I took an Asian American course and learned about the struggles of Asians living in America. Things changed after the civil rights movement. So I find it odd that you are against certain people. But in essence if it wasn?t for MLK protest and march across the US. We would probably be segregated. What are your thoughts?

Eye, I never said I was ashamed of it.  My family pretty much runs that joint. My Uncle was Vice President a few years back and my great Grandfather was President After the war.  I just don't "identify" with it when asked where I am from.  I am an American and proud of that and its heritage. You think social castes and racism are bad here?  It's crippling in the Philippines.  We are eons ahead of almost every country in our treatment of minorities and immigrants. One of the biggest lies about us that snowflakes believe and perpetuate.

I love this mentality...WE DON'T NEED TO DO ANYTHING BECAUSE OTHER PLACES ARE WORSE!

I agree that racism is much worse elsewhere in this world but it does not make it right.  Poverty and starving people are worse elsewhere...does not mean that it is okay in the US. 

No, but honestly, it will always be here.  Our current snowflake populous act as if WE are the problem and are somehow worse than all the others.  We never acknowledge that in many ways we are better off that most everyone else.  That our system has done more to advance these issues than any other on earth.  These fools only want to blame and bemoan our nations wickedness.  Its that attitude that tries to legitimize the foolish and trivial complaints pointed out in this thread that perpetuate this self loathing, ungrateful view of our own country,  that attitude that sickens me. 

Again...NOTHING TO BE DONE BECAUSE OTHER COUNTRIES ARE WORSE! 

Complaints that are foolish and trivial to you may not be to others...trying to make the country better is just a legitimate as any other cause.

Ungrateful?  WTH...a country is made up of people...the people doesn't owes anything to a country. 

 

[morekaos]

My parents were extremely grateful to be here.  If you aren't too, you maybe have not traveled enough.  I am grateful every day to be lucky enough to be born here, to work here and raise my family here.  Why do you think we have such an immigration problem?  I accept my country, with all of its shortcomings because I have been elsewhere and I would not want to live anywhere else.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

My parents were extremely grateful to be here.  If you aren't too, you maybe have not traveled enough.  I am grateful every day to be lucky enough to be born here, to work here and raise my family here.  Why do you think we have such an immigration problem?  I accept my country, with all of its shortcomings because I have been elsewhere and I would not want to live anywhere else.

Sure...but why should I be satisfied with its shortcomings?  Why shouldn't I try and make it better rather than just saying...hey it's bad elsewhere.  Why wouldn't we want to take continue to try and make this country better...you know like try to form a more perfect union? 

If there are others in this countries that are suffering or being oppressed, why should be satisfied or okay with it?  I mean, if that's the argument, why do we need the Civil Rights movement...I mean minorities had their own bathrooms and we are not as bad as elsewhere.

 

[morekaos]

We have slipped from the main topic of this thread but...don't think I am saying things are perfect, I only point out that relatively, things are much better here, and that is something we should be grateful about.  I also am a realist because I know it will never be perfect so I accept shortcomings as how it will always be.  Striving for perfection is an impossibility so I'm happy to be in a better place than most.  This is one of the reasons I see trivial and inconsequential bitching and media encouragement by legitimizing their yelps as counterproductive.  As I said above, this only distracts from real race issues and blunts the effect when real issues are drowned out by all the shrill noise of the screaming crowd.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

We have slipped from the main topic of this thread but...don't think I am saying things are perfect, I only point out that relatively, things are much better here, and that is something we should be grateful about.  I also am a realist because I know it will never be perfect so I accept shortcomings as how it will always be.  Striving for perfection is an impossibility so I'm happy to be in a better place than most.  This is one of the reasons I see trivial and inconsequential bitching and media encouragement by legitimizing their yelps as counterproductive.  As I said above, this only distracts from real race issues and blunts the effect when real issues are drowned out by all the shrill noise of the screaming crowd.

Perfection is probably impossible but does not mean we should stop striving for it.  It's literally in the founding documents of this country.

If the yelps for seemingly inconsequential things are counterproductive...you should think about the system and society that we live in in which why such issues are viewed as counterproductive.  I believe you discussed the taking down of CSULB's mascot as an example of triviality.  But why is it trivial?  If it offends people, take it down...it's a made up character.  What is it to you if it is taken down?  Companies change their logos and slogans all the time, are you offended by it?

Changes is often messy and goes too far but the issue is always what is kept and what is being attacked. 

 

[morekaos]

No one complained about Prospector Pete.  He is a cartoon character.  Mascots are rallying points for team or school pride and identity. They don't convey deep racial commentary. Look at the Red Skins controversy....When asked if it offended real Indians they overwhelmingly said "NO".  Just a bunch of guilt ridden non-Indians who complained, thinking they were being thoughtful and progressive.  Or the SDSU Aztec,  Who complained? An Aztec?  That would be a good trick since they have been an extinct race for hundreds of years.  These are non issues and most people know it.  That is what i mean by distracting,  it lowers the importance of ALL the arguments and in doing so weakens them.

Poll Finds Most Native Americans Aren't Offended By Redskins Name


NPR's Audie Cornish talks to Washington Post reporter John Woodrow Cox about his paper's poll that shows 9 out of 10 Native Americans aren't offended by the name of the Washington football team.

https://www.npr.org/2016/05/20/478886120/poll-finds-most-native-americans-arent-offended-by-redskins-name

 

[Irvinecommuter]

No one complained about Prospector Pete.  He is a cartoon character.  Mascots are rallying points for team or school pride and identity. They don't convey deep racial commentary. Look at the Red Skins controversy....When asked if it offended real Indians they overwhelmingly said "NO".  Just a bunch of guilt ridden non-Indians who complained, thinking they were being thoughtful and progressive.  Or the SDSU Aztec,  Who complained? An Aztec?  That would be a good trick since they have been and extinct race for hundreds of years.  These are non issues and most people know it.  That is what i mean by distracting,  it lowers the importance of ALL the arguments and in doing so weakens them.

Poll Finds Most Native Americans Aren't Offended By Redskins Name


NPR's Audie Cornish talks to Washington Post reporter John Woodrow Cox about his paper's poll that shows 9 out of 10 Native Americans aren't offended by the name of the Washington football team.

https://www.npr.org/2016/05/20/478886120/poll-finds-most-native-americans-arent-offended-by-redskins-name

Weird that you don't consider the 10% of the Native Americans who are offended to be worthy of consideration.  Again, why should those 10% of NA be discarded for an artificial made up logo/mascot relating to a sports team?  Who is offended when the logo is changed?  If Dan Snyder decided to change the logo on his own because he wanted to sell more merchandise, would that offend you?

If no one was offended, you think that CSULB would have taken him down?  And what if CSULB just didn't want to have it as a mascot anymore?  Why should you be offended by it?

?The Prospector Pete image grew from our founding in 1949 and reflected our Founding President Pete Peterson?s common references to having struck the gold of education by establishing Long Beach State College,? Conoley said in an email. ?President Peterson was absolutely correct; education is precious.?

But, Conoley said, as the university?s diversity grew and more voices were heard ?we came to know that the 1849 California gold rush was a time in history when the indigenous peoples of California endured subjugation, violence and threats of genocide.?

?We have evolved from Prospector Pete,? Conoley said. ?We are more than one mascot. We are the Beach. A model of diversity, success and relevance. We are champions. We are informed by our past and prepared to face the future together.?

https://www.presstelegram.com/2018/09/20/prospector-pete-gets-the-boot-from-cal-state-long-beach/

And you are wrong about Aztecs...
https://www.quora.com/Do-Aztec-and-Mayan-people-still-exist-today

 

[Irvinecommuter]

I mean somehow your opinion or the opinions of a bunch of football fans are more important than these people:

COX: I think that the debate won't end with this at all. I think that the people who've been working on this for decades are going to continue to fight. Suzan Harjo has been fighting this since the 1960s. I don't think she's going to stop, and nor do I think the Oneida Indian Nation or the National Congress of American Indians - I don't think any of those groups are going to stop. And they've - they've argued, too, that the dictionary defines this as a racial slur. And I've also, you know, heard people argue that, regardless of the number of Native Americans who are offended, they've said that well, isn't it enough that 1 in 10 are offended? That's certainly one of the arguments that they've made. So I don't expect the poll to end the debate.

Edit:  You wrote:

Mascots are rallying points for team or school pride and identity. They don't convey deep racial commentary.

They can and they have.  Stanford changed its mascot/logo in the 1970s..does anyone care now?  Do Stanford alums cheer for their school any less or feel less pride because of it?  Question is why school pride and identity are of value and why we should defend them if some members of society are offended by it? 

Why is change of such minute scale worthy of any level of angst? 

These are non issues and most people know it.  That is what i mean by distracting,  it lowers the importance of ALL the arguments and in doing so weakens them.

It shouldn't...it only does because those oppose to change to both big and small things want to trivialize change in general.  Why should we as a society use those people as the benchmark?  Your reference to it falls exactly into the very thing that you claim to be despise.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Conversely..GOP is now trivializing all racial issues are nothing and that people are just making stuff up.  Even things like voter suppression and revoking the Civil Rights Act..where it's basically "WE DON'T SEE COLOR AND THUS THERE IS NO RACISM". 

So...let's not equate calls for minute changes in culture and society with the systematic efforts of GOP/conservative (and mostly white older individuals) to roll back the clock to the 1950s.

Question:  Are you outraged by those things too?

 

[morekaos]

Chancellor Conoley is exactly the snowflake type forward thinking activist I'm talking about.  I question her motives, however, You will ALWAYS find someone who is offended by something. Catering to just a few gripers is no way to run business.  It goes along with the theme of this thread,  at some point the tail cannot wag the dog.  90% of Indians don't care so I'm good with the Redskins.  For the rest, you're right its just a name, root for another team,  I'll bet of the 10%, few were actually part of the complainers.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Chancellor Conoley is exactly the snowflake type forward thinking activist I'm talking about.  I question her motives, however, You will ALWAYS find someone who is offended by something. Catering to just a few gripers is no way to run business.  It goes along with the theme of this thread,  at some point the tail cannot wag the dog.  90% of Indians don't care so I'm good with the Redskins.  For the rest, you're right its just a name, root for another team,  I'll bet of the 10%, few were actually part of the complainers.

So why do you care if they change the name?  It's their school...how are you affected in anyway? 

There is no tail and no dog...it's society.  Society change all the time...there is nothing to wag.

 

[morekaos]

You see we are arguing the trivial.  Say there are Aztecs...which ones complained? Also, who is talking about revoking the civil rights act? Is there a bill the floor to do that?  If so, I am unaware of it.  Arguing about Aztecs and cartoon characterless is pointless and trivial.  People need to buck up.  As i pointed out comedy is dead, it is in fact making fun of peoples shortcomings.  I used to love hearing Filipino comedians, they told jokes and pointed out foibles that only a Filipino would find funny.  I enjoy a good Filipino joke.  Mirrors are very often the best way to laugh and gain insight into ones self.  We are all not perfect or the same, we should celebrate those differences not bemoan them. Rickles used to give a ten minute speech before his act about comedy and deprecation.  This society has become too soft and weak. It can't take a joke or a punch.

 

[eyephone]

Eye, I am more than acquainted with Phil/Am struggles, politics and shortcomings. Like I said, my family was instrumental in securing Philippine Independence from the US.  Bit don't kid yourself, like any third world nation the corruption and dirty dealing is overwhelming.  In many ways Independence cut off their nose despite their face.  US rule there had its good points.  Look at the sate of affairs are there now.  Not ideal.

What does that have to do with Asian Americans?

1. Your right. It has nothing to do with Asian Americans.
2. There?s no way to verify what?s he saying regarding his family. To me it?s just noise. He wants credit for something that doesn?t effect us in any way. (Again we can?t verify it.
3. If his family was so powerful why did they migrate to the US? (It just doesn?t make sense)

 

[Irvinecommuter]

You see we are arguing the trivial.  Say there are Aztecs...which ones complained? Also, who is talking about revoking the civil rights act? Is there a bill the floor to do that?  If so, I am unaware of it.  Arguing about Aztecs and cartoon characterless is pointless and trivial.  People need to buck up.  As i pointed out comedy is dead, it is in fact making fun of peoples shortcomings.  I used to love hearing Filipino comedians, they told jokes and pointed out foibles that only a Filipino would find funny.  I enjoy a good Filipino joke.  Mirrors are very often the best way to laugh and gain insight into ones self.  We are all not perfect or the same, we should celebrate those differences not bemoan them. Rickles used to give a ten minute speech before his act about comedy and deprecation.  This society has become too soft and weak. It can't take a joke or a punch.

I am not arguing the trivial...you are.  I gave it zero thought until you brought it up.  You are the one who is annoyed at it.  I could not care less.  If some school or team decided to change their mascot tomorrow for whatever reason...I would be like meh. 

I mean blackface used to be norm in the society too...is society getting to soft because it is not anymore?  Find new things to laugh about.

I mean shaking your fist at clouds is a thing that is done but hardly ever true or productive.   

 

[morekaos]

That's sort of the point Eye,  I have 0 desire to live in the PI. No matter how much money or power resides there.  (Crazy rich asians not for me)  I have been asian american (in america) for as long as I can remember.  Never really struggled with it, in fact for me, it never was an issue, just not down with the struggle.  Don't care if you believe it or not but thats the fact Jack.  Besides my wife would never want to live there (OC Girl)

 

[Liar Loan]

I mean blackface used to be norm in the society too...is society getting to soft because it is not anymore?  Find new things to laugh about.

It still is the norm within the Democratic party.

 

[eyephone]

Again your story doesn?t make sense. Now you are making stuff up and going in circles.

That's sort of the point Eye,  I have 0 desire to live in the PI. No matter how much money or power resides there.  (Crazy rich asians not for me)  I have been asian american (in america) for as long as I can remember.  Never really struggled with it, in fact for me, it never was an issue, just not down with the struggle.  Don't care if you believe it or not but thats the fact Jack.  Besides my wife would never want to live there (OC Girl)

 

[Liar Loan]

Chancellor Conoley is exactly the snowflake type forward thinking activist I'm talking about.  I question her motives, however, You will ALWAYS find someone who is offended by something. Catering to just a few gripers is no way to run business.  It goes along with the theme of this thread,  at some point the tail cannot wag the dog.  90% of Indians don't care so I'm good with the Redskins.  For the rest, you're right its just a name, root for another team,  I'll bet of the 10%, few were actually part of the complainers.

So why do you care if they change the name?  It's their school...how are you affected in anyway? 

There is no tail and no dog...it's society.  Society change all the time...there is nothing to wag.

The real story behind CSULB has more to do with corporate branding than people being offended by Prospector Pete (a fictional representation that hasn't inflicted any real harm upon anybody.)  In their view, re-branding as 'The Beach' makes the school more attractive to out-of-state transfers and international students, the very people that pay the most in tuition.  (After all, who wouldn't want to go to college at the BEACH?) 

I bet less than 1% of students give a crap about Prospector Pete.  It's a commuter school with an apathetic student body.  It's just that by throwing a bone to the "activists" on campus they get their virtue signalling brownie points and it's a convenient excuse to re-brand at the behest of their corporate fund-raising consultants, who have to earn their fees.  The whole thing is a joke and a pack of lies being perpetuated by the chancellor, IMO.