Snowflakes

[Irvinecommuter]

Stop being so butt hurt about something that was said 50 years ago by a guy who isn't around to defend himself.  Leave the name and five years from now no one will remember. Where is the cutoff for politically incorrect thought?  I seem to recall Bill, Hillary and Barack all loving a border wall and hating in illegals.  They also were not enamored with same sex marriage until they were forced to "evolve" by polling.  Quit trying to bury the past, it is what it is, move on.  As you said this stuff is worthless and irrelevant to even bring up.

It is almost like people are not perfect and that we can examine them in both positive and negative lights.

Ironically...you tell me people not to bury the past by ignoring it.

 

[Kings]

george washington owned slaves, let's tear down the washington monument and remove his face from our currency...that will show him!

 

[Irvinecommuter]

george washington owned slaves, let's tear down the washington monument and remove his face from our currency...that will show him!

Conservatives are scared of the slippery slope to the slippery slope

 

[momopi]

IMO John Wayne is more hegemonic than racist.  He doesn't seem to think that whites are inherently superior, and that blacks can attain success and leadership positions through effort and education.  In contrast Richard Lynn is more racist than hegemonic, as he advocates whites with higher IQ is inherently superior, but due to low birth rate it's necessary for predominantly white states to secede from the Union, in effort to preserve a racially homogeneous white civilization.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

John Wayne's interview:

Wayne was also asked about educator/activist Angela Davis and discrimination. He responded, ?With a lot of blacks, there?s quite a bit of resentment along with their dissent, and possibly rightfully so. But we can?t all of a sudden get down on our knees and turn everything over to the leadership of the blacks. I believe in white supremacy until the blacks are educated to a point of responsibility. I don?t believe in giving authority and positions of leadership and judgment to irresponsible people.?

Lewis then shot back at Wayne, asking if the actor was equipped to judge ?which blacks are irresponsible and which of their leaders inexperienced.? Wayne responded, ?It?s not judgment. The academic community has developed certain tests that determine whether the blacks are sufficiently equipped scholastically. But some blacks have tried to force the issue and enter college when they haven?t passed the tests and don?t have the requisite background.?

?I don?t know why people insist that blacks have been forbidden their right to go to school,? continued Wayne. ?They were allowed in public schools wherever I?ve been. Even if they don?t have the proper credentials for college, there are courses to help them become eligible. But if they aren?t academically ready for the step, I don?t think they should be allowed in. Otherwise, the academic society is brought down to the lowest common denominator.

?? There has to be a standard. I don?t feel guilty about the fact that five or 10 generations ago these people were slaves. Now, I?m not condoning slavery. It?s just a fact of life, like the kid who gets infantile paralysis and has to wear braces so he can?t play football with the rest of us. I will say this, though: I think any black who can compete with a white today can get a better break than a white man. I wish they?d tell me where in the world they have it better than right here in America.?

Wayne also spoke harshly about Native Americans when asked if he felt any empathy for them, considering they played an essential role in his films.

?I don?t feel we did wrong in taking this great country away from them if that?s what you?re asking,? said Wayne. "Our so-called stealing of this country from them was just a matter of survival. They were great numbers of people who needed new land, and the Indians were selfishly trying to keep it for themselves? Look, I?m sure there have been inequalities. If those inequalities are presently affecting any of the Indians now alive, they have a right to a court hearing. But what happened 100 years ago in our country can?t be blamed on us today.?


When John Wayne's comments on Native Americans caused a controversy, he responded:

?I can?t imagine any Indian,? Wayne said in his defense, ?not realizing that over the past forty years I?ve done more to give them human dignity and a fine image on the screen than anyone else who has ever worked in pictures.? ?Indians were part of our history,? he elaborated, ?I have never shown the Indians on the screen as anything but courageous and with great human dignity.?

To substantiate his point, Wayne used some of his Westerns as examples: ?My Indian in Hondo? was a great guy, my Indian in Fort Apache? was a great guy. I assume the Indians know that I have a great deal of respect for them.?

This seems to be different from this:

this is what morekaos is supporting , just so everyone knows where he stands.

John Wayne in 1971 , well after the civil rights movement --

?I believe in white supremacy,? he said, and spoke harshly about African Americans, saying, ?We can?t all of a sudden get down on our knees and turn everything over to the leadership of the blacks.?

?I don?t believe in giving authority and positions of leadership and judgment to irresponsible people,? he said.

?I don?t feel guilty about the fact that five or 10 generations ago these people were slaves,? he said. ?Now, I?m not condoning slavery. It?s just a fact of life, like the kid who gets infantile paralysis and has to wear braces so he can?t play football with the rest of us.?

And just because someone doesn't agree about having to take a person's name off of an airport doesn't mean they support the opinions of that person.

 

[Mety]

Oh, I thought you guys were talking about Chon Wang.

 

[fortune11]

IHO - it is not "different" - is it different quotes from the same interview

the implication being made by his entire stupid "snowflakes" thread is people (read: liberals/millenials/<insert any boomer paranoia here>)  are offended over trivial things

i.e. =>  john Wayne's name on the airport is ok because all these are "trivial " statements

I don't find them trivial, even if a whole bunch of orange county older republicans do. 

And the people in orange country should have a say over what their airport is named -- just like they have a say in who represents them

no one raised this issue on this forum until Kaos did it himself -- so call it "shooting oneself in the foot" and now just cant hide behind "oh I didn't really mean that"  when It blows up in your face

 

[eyephone]

Oh, I thought you guys were talking about Chon Wang.

Jackie Chan
I?m waiting for the next Rush Hour. (I hope another one is coming out.)

 

[Irvinecommuter]

What is ironic about this whole discussion is that the people who call others "snowflakes" get triggered by the most snowflaky things.

Triggered by the discussion of the renaming of an airport

 

[Mety]

Ok, just settle with Chon Wang Airport.

And Rush Hour4 is happening according Jackie Chan who is 64 years old so he might not remember what he said anyways.

But the movie doesn't have a white American main character so is that an American movie?  ;D

 

[eyephone]

Ok, just settle with Chon Wang Airport.

And Rush Hour4 is happening according Jackie Chan who is 64 years old so he might not remember what he said anyways.

But the movie doesn't have a white American main character so is that an American movie?  ;D

He can be the police captain and tell jokes. Maybe cast another guy to do the fighting. Hehee

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Ok, just settle with Chon Wang Airport.

And Rush Hour4 is happening according Jackie Chan who is 64 years old so he might not remember what he said anyways.

But the movie doesn't have a white American main character so is that an American movie?  ;D

He can be the police captain and tell jokes. Maybe cast another guy to do the fighting. Hehee

Jackie Chan has be criticized for toeing the CCP line..his newer movies are pretty bad and a few of them are basically CCP propaganda.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

IHO - it is not "different" - is it different quotes from the same interview

Well, the out of context makes it look different:

Compare this:

?I believe in white supremacy,? he said, and spoke harshly about African Americans, saying, ?We can?t all of a sudden get down on our knees and turn everything over to the leadership of the blacks.?

To this:

Wayne was also asked about educator/activist Angela Davis and discrimination. He responded, ?With a lot of blacks, there?s quite a bit of resentment along with their dissent, and possibly rightfully so. But we can?t all of a sudden get down on our knees and turn everything over to the leadership of the blacks. I believe in white supremacy until the blacks are educated to a point of responsibility. I don?t believe in giving authority and positions of leadership and judgment to irresponsible people.?

The first implies "white supremacy" in general, the second seems to be more directed towards the imbalance in education.

the implication being made by his entire stupid "snowflakes" thread is people (read: liberals/millenials/<insert any boomer paranoia here>)  are offended over trivial things

i.e. =>  john Wayne's name on the airport is ok because all these are "trivial " statements

I don't find them trivial, even if a whole bunch of orange county older republicans do. 

And the people in orange country should have a say over what their airport is named -- just like they have a say in who represents them

no one raised this issue on this forum until Kaos did it himself -- so call it "shooting oneself in the foot" and now just cant hide behind "oh I didn't really mean that"  when It blows up in your face

Sure, but that's not what I was talking about. I was shocked by what you wrote but then when I read momopi's post it put what you said in a different light.

It just goes to show how important context is.

 

[Mety]

There goes IHO's sexy nitpicking. Hey, gotta keep this TI alive, right?  ;D

 

[Mety]

Ok, just settle with Chon Wang Airport.

And Rush Hour4 is happening according Jackie Chan who is 64 years old so he might not remember what he said anyways.

But the movie doesn't have a white American main character so is that an American movie?  ;D

He can be the police captain and tell jokes. Maybe cast another guy to do the fighting. Hehee

Jackie Chan has be criticized for toeing the CCP line..his newer movies are pretty bad and a few of them are basically CCP propaganda.

I'm sure he's doing what he's paid to do either acting or political moves.
Let him come to Irvine since he's Chinese. He can live in Travata in CVE.  ;D

 

[fortune11]

IHO --- You are not really serious about claiming it  is OK to use "white supremacy" when in the context of education ???

It is ok to back away from this.  No one will have a problem with it. 

 

[fortune11]

Ok, just settle with Chon Wang Airport.

And Rush Hour4 is happening according Jackie Chan who is 64 years old so he might not remember what he said anyways.

But the movie doesn't have a white American main character so is that an American movie?  ;D

He can be the police captain and tell jokes. Maybe cast another guy to do the fighting. Hehee

Jackie Chan has be criticized for toeing the CCP line..his newer movies are pretty bad and a few of them are basically CCP propaganda.

I'm sure he's doing what he's paid to do either acting or political moves.
Let him come to Irvine since he's Chinese. He can live in Travata in CVE.  ;D

Funny .... On this topic ? I remember one of my Indian American colleagues at work mentioning that a vice like journalistic outfit in India busted  a whole bunch of local movie celebrities on hidden camera accepting under the table cash for putting out tweets and Instagram posts favorable to the their ruling party . 

 

[irvinehomeowner]

IHO --- You are not really serious about claiming it  is OK to use "white supremacy" when in the context of education ???

It is ok to back away from this.  No one will have a problem with it.

That's not what I said.

My point was the way you presented it had a different tone than momopis post, which is why I assume momopis posted the full interview text.

 

[fortune11]

IHO --- You are not really serious about claiming it  is OK to use "white supremacy" when in the context of education ???

It is ok to back away from this.  No one will have a problem with it.

That's not what I said.

My point was the way you presented it had a different tone than momopis post, which is why I assume momopis posted the full interview text.

What is this different ?tone ? ?

I didn?t change any thing in the text . Here is the link for full playboy interview in case you are wondering
https://pages.shanti.virginia.edu/Wild_Wild_Cold_War/files/2011/11/John_Wayne_Playboy_Int2.pdf

What ?context ? you saw that makes the tone any less negative than the excerpts I pasted in my post ?

 

[irvinehomeowner]

IHO --- You are not really serious about claiming it  is OK to use "white supremacy" when in the context of education ???

It is ok to back away from this.  No one will have a problem with it.

That's not what I said.

My point was the way you presented it had a different tone than momopis post, which is why I assume momopis posted the full interview text.

What is this different ?tone ? ?

I didn?t change any thing in the text . Here is the link for full playboy interview in case you are wondering
https://pages.shanti.virginia.edu/Wild_Wild_Cold_War/files/2011/11/John_Wayne_Playboy_Int2.pdf

What ?context ? you saw that makes the tone any less negative than the excerpts I pasted in my post ?

You did change the text, again, here is what you wrote:

John Wayne in 1971 , well after the civil rights movement --

?I believe in white supremacy,? he said, and spoke harshly about African Americans, saying, ?We can?t all of a sudden get down on our knees and turn everything over to the leadership of the blacks.?

?I don?t believe in giving authority and positions of leadership and judgment to irresponsible people,? he said.

Here is the actual text, with context from the question he was actually asked and follow up:

PLAYBOY: Angela Davis claims that those who would revoke her teaching credentials
on ideological grounds are actually discriminating against her because she's black. Do
you think there's any truth in that?
WAYNE: With a lot of blacks, there's quite a bit of resentment along with their dissent,
and possibly rightfully so. But we can't all of a sudden get down on our knees and turn
everything over to the leadership of the blacks. I believe in white supremacy until the
blacks are educated to a point of responsibility. I don't believe in giving authority and
positions of leadership and judgment to irresponsible people.

PLAYBOY: Are you equipped to judge which blacks are irresponsible and which of their
leaders inexperienced?
WAYNE: It's not my judgment. The academic community has developed certain tests
that determine whether the blacks are sufficiently equipped scholastically. But some
blacks have tried to force the issue and enter college when they haven't passed the tests
and don't have the requisite background.

PLAYBOY: How do they get that background?
WAYNE: By going to school. I don't know why people insist that blacks have been
forbidden their right to go to school. They were allowed in public schools wherever I've
been. Even if they don't have the proper credentials for college, there are courses to help
them become eligible. But if they aren't academically ready for that step, I don't think
they should be allowed in. Otherwise, the academic society is brought down to the lowest
common denominator.

PLAYBOY: But isn't it true that we're never likely to rectify the inequities in our
educational system until some sort of remedial education is given to disadvantaged
minority groups?
WAYNE: What good would it do to register anybody in a class of higher algebra or
calculus if they haven't learned to count? There has to be a standard. I don't feel guilty
about the fact that five or 10 generations ago these people were slaves. Now, I'm not
condoning slavery. It's just a fact of life, like the kid who gets infantile paralysis and has
to wear braces so he can't play football with the rest of us. I will say this, though: I think
any black who can compete with a white today can get a better break than a white man. I
wish they'd tell me where in the world they have it better than right here in America.

Now, yes, you can argue there is racism in his comments (and he probably was), but the context gives you more insight on what he was actually saying and the subject at hand which was education and opportunity. By cutting out those parts, what you posted isn't a fair assessment of what was said.

As an example, if I use the same tactic and cut out certain parts, I can make this interview look favorable:

<<

In 1971, when asked about the inequality in education and opportunity for blacks, Wayne spoke favorably about the potential of African Americans:

"I think any black who can compete with a white today can get a better break than a white man."

>>

Now, if you don't see the difference, then I don't think there is any more I can say.