Save the Memorial Park! Vote No on Measure B ballot June 5th

NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
irvinehomeshopper said:
someguy said:
irvinehomeshopper said:
Regardless of my affiliation to the developer. I would voice my opinion for what is the right thing to do.

The number of homes to be built at the Greatpark has already been entitled and approved. Not a single more unit would be allowed regardless of the cemetery locations. The only difference here is the cemetery will drive away Chinese buyers thus lowering surrounding property value.

This means the other developer has everything to gain when Chinese buyers must buy homes outside of the Greatpark. Either way the outcome would benefit one of the two developers. The original cemetery site is not zoned to housing and has no tremendous revenue potential. 820,000 sf of Business park will be similar to what we have already seen along Bake pkwy.

A rule of thumb for good commercial land is signage and traffic exposure and that should debunk the theory that the original cemetery site is so valuable that 5P will be exploiting it and build something on it that will exceed the potential of the El Toro Y site.

A No vote does not mean less homes will be built. It will only affects property value of the homes but the physical environment will still be the same. There will be a large Commercial Center by the Y with excellent exposure. The developer will make more money there to offset the loss of home revenue.

A yes vote means the same number of homes will be built and the property value will be the same as the rest of Irvine. The High school and near by homes will not hear gun salute on a regular basis. There will not be long procession of funeral caravans through the residential neighborhoods. I am not thrilled about a business park in between the high school and homes. However I am thrilled to see a veteran cemetery at the location that reminds the millions of drivers who commute everyday or out of towners driving to San Diego that the braves who fought for this country.

When I drive by the 405 I have always loved the scenery of the Westwood Veteran Cemetery although I don't know of anyone buried there but I respect the majesty of it. I was very disappointed when Cal Tran added the extra lanes that a retaining wall was necessary. I longer could see the cemetery from the freeway. Veteran cemetery is not just for the relatives but for all to see. I would not go out of my way to get to it just like many others. However for that moment when driving by I acknowledged the sacrifices and bravery of the veterans. When I drove from DC to Alexandria the Arlington cemetery being adjacent to the highway granted the setback is greater there but its adjacency signified that I was driving by an area that signified a great deal of respect.

When a cemetery is hidden in a residential neighborhood a majority of the public will never see it or hear about it. I do support a public monument must be at a high profile location.

We see freeway adjacent as negative but I hope to illustrate to you a large acreage 3x the size of Spectrum the design possibility is endless. This is a veteran cemetery that edged on 2 highways. Please look at the beauty of it when properly landscaped with trees.https://www.cavehillcemetery.com/


The assumption is the developer is greedy and that original cemetery land is a gold mine. 820,000 sf of business park is no gold mine. The potential of a transit oriented mixed use development at the El Toro Y is a money maker when leased out to national tenants. The issue is tranquility vs freeway adjacency. I feel it should be acknowledged by the world while relatives want a secluded serene setting.

I believe the high profile location could be made peaceful by good design. Look at Woodbridge South Lake. It backs up to the 405 but its a peaceful once inside. The proposed swap site has a depth from a range similar the depth from 405 to Barranca and 405 to Alton. When you walk or drive on Barranca or Alton by Woodbridge Lake do you not find them peaceful?

My vote is Yes on B
sigh.  What's the point. 

Why bother trying yet again to explain that it's stupid to put 812,000 of office space next to the school instead of next to the 5/405 interchange where it's extremely accessible. 

Why bother trying to explain that those employees' commutes will continue into the GP instead of ending at the 5/405. 

Why bother trying to explain the corrupt process by which measure B was born. 

Why bother trying to explain that money is being used to push an agenda to voters. 

Why bother pointing out that the narrative of "yes" is using Veterans and supporters as pawns for the agenda of 5P.

You want something pretty?  Go explore nature.

You want to honor the veterans?  Go volunteer for them.  Go spend time with the sick/needy veterans and those they left behind.  Don't act like you're going to well up with tears of gratitude every time you pass a cemetery on the freeway.  Don't act like that's making a single ounce of difference in any of those soldier's or their family's lives.  You want to show the Veterans something real?  Show them the country they died for cannot be bought.  Honor their sacrifice by saying No to corrupt political processes.  Give them an opportunity to be buried and remembered next to their living fellow citizens at the Great Park.

Not everyone is passionate about visiting the grave site. That does not mean people like me don't respect veterans. We have different way of showing our respect. I don't know of any veteran being buried at the cemetery and I really have no reason to visit. I am an immigrant and so are many who are living in Irvine. You have your standard and I have mine coming from a different culture. I appreciate your passion but don't discredit the many of us or others who does just the same. If you want to get your message out don't bury the cemetery where the public can't see or find it.

I think we want to send a different message with this Measure B vote.  My message is about letting our local government and developers know they don't get to manipulate voters by using veterans as their pawns in order to re-write city plans that better suit FCBs tastes. 

It sounded to me like the point was being made that a veteran cemetery by the 5/405 is more honorable to the veterans because it's more visible and easier to access.  There's clearly other ways to look at it, and we're probably not going to convince each other either way on that :)

And hey, I appreciate you no matter where you or your family came from. 
 
Happiness said:
rickr said:
5P Versus TIC

I think we should just have a fight club - Donald versus Emile

Who wins?

TIC will be in Irvine always, taking care of Irvine like they have for decades. Once 5P sells all of its El Toro land, it will disappear and never be seen again. 5P is owned by Lennar which is located in Florida. TIC is based right here.

Fivepoint LLC is headquartered in Aliso Viejo. They are not Lennar just that they own Class A shares of 5P and were spun off of them. Incestuous maybe but still different companies.
 
Convincing to change direction, convincing some one that have made up their mind is very difficult. So there is a bitter fight for where the location get built. I agree with IHS that textbook planning should be as he explained it. A national veteran cemetery should be at a visible location and prominent location. This is Irvine after all, and its known for proper planning.

For me this is not about resale of my home, or my home values. When I bought into the GP homes, I have already planned to stay for a long while, if not, its my forever home. I do enjoy living here that much. It's not buy and flip and pray on appreciation for me. Appreciation I don't even think about it, because I am not selling it. If I am in the flipping business, then I do care a whole lot of who will buy my house on a short term turn around and hoping for big gain. Who will be the next sucker I offload it to and only superstitious, number 8 believer think its a bad idea to live next to cemetery.

Nothing wrong with Chinese, Korean, Indian beliefs that its a bad idea to buy close by a cemetery. The issues that I see here is cultures. FCB, as in Foreigner view cemetery as dark and grungy place. Down right nasty. Because this is how it is in their country. They have no idea what a National Cemetery looks like. If the cemetery built and in service right now and all your Chinese buyers see it, and how beautiful it is, this might change their mind.

Chinese or not Chinese when I see rude and nasty behaviors, it piss me off to no end. I dont give a rat, if they got money. As a matter of fact, Some think they entitle to smoking where they want, pissing wherever please, and slap money on people faces like they owned them. Then its the punks that think they owned the road and zoom by and total disregard for public safety. That pissed me off. All of those flashy car pimple face kids, I assume parachute kids and living off parents money, and careless about safety. I really don't care to live by them or close to them because if I see punks think they own the road and run me over, shotgun might go off and its not from the gun salute.

The No on B is ultimately push the cemetery into obliteration. For this I vote Yes on B.
 
i1 said:
someguy said:
I think we want to send a different message with this Measure B vote.  My message is about letting our local government and developers know they don't get to manipulate voters by using veterans as their pawns in order to re-write city plans
Money in campaigns will always exist. This vote isn't going to change that

Complacency isn't going to change it either.
 
i1 said:
someguy said:
i1 said:
someguy said:
I think we want to send a different message with this Measure B vote.  My message is about letting our local government and developers know they don't get to manipulate voters by using veterans as their pawns in order to re-write city plans
Money in campaigns will always exist. This vote isn't going to change that

Complacency isn't going to change it either.
Exactly.  We need a measure or prop on campaign finance reform. Otherwise we can turn every single vote into a referendum on whose money and politics make us angriest. Is that better than voting on the issue at hand?

Li - I just saw your TI avitar. Are you going to vote for Mimi or someone else?
 
Honestly...I am kinda of torn about B.  I will probably vote yes because my sense is that if the site is not moved..it will never get built and then Five Points will still build on on it.
 
So if No for Measure B wins, does that mean the cemetery indeed gets built on Irvine Blvd, or is this just going to get kicked around indefinitely?
 
Back
Top