someguy
Active member
irvinehomeshopper said:someguy said:sigh. What's the point.irvinehomeshopper said:Regardless of my affiliation to the developer. I would voice my opinion for what is the right thing to do.
The number of homes to be built at the Greatpark has already been entitled and approved. Not a single more unit would be allowed regardless of the cemetery locations. The only difference here is the cemetery will drive away Chinese buyers thus lowering surrounding property value.
This means the other developer has everything to gain when Chinese buyers must buy homes outside of the Greatpark. Either way the outcome would benefit one of the two developers. The original cemetery site is not zoned to housing and has no tremendous revenue potential. 820,000 sf of Business park will be similar to what we have already seen along Bake pkwy.
A rule of thumb for good commercial land is signage and traffic exposure and that should debunk the theory that the original cemetery site is so valuable that 5P will be exploiting it and build something on it that will exceed the potential of the El Toro Y site.
A No vote does not mean less homes will be built. It will only affects property value of the homes but the physical environment will still be the same. There will be a large Commercial Center by the Y with excellent exposure. The developer will make more money there to offset the loss of home revenue.
A yes vote means the same number of homes will be built and the property value will be the same as the rest of Irvine. The High school and near by homes will not hear gun salute on a regular basis. There will not be long procession of funeral caravans through the residential neighborhoods. I am not thrilled about a business park in between the high school and homes. However I am thrilled to see a veteran cemetery at the location that reminds the millions of drivers who commute everyday or out of towners driving to San Diego that the braves who fought for this country.
When I drive by the 405 I have always loved the scenery of the Westwood Veteran Cemetery although I don't know of anyone buried there but I respect the majesty of it. I was very disappointed when Cal Tran added the extra lanes that a retaining wall was necessary. I longer could see the cemetery from the freeway. Veteran cemetery is not just for the relatives but for all to see. I would not go out of my way to get to it just like many others. However for that moment when driving by I acknowledged the sacrifices and bravery of the veterans. When I drove from DC to Alexandria the Arlington cemetery being adjacent to the highway granted the setback is greater there but its adjacency signified that I was driving by an area that signified a great deal of respect.
When a cemetery is hidden in a residential neighborhood a majority of the public will never see it or hear about it. I do support a public monument must be at a high profile location.
We see freeway adjacent as negative but I hope to illustrate to you a large acreage 3x the size of Spectrum the design possibility is endless. This is a veteran cemetery that edged on 2 highways. Please look at the beauty of it when properly landscaped with trees.https://www.cavehillcemetery.com/
The assumption is the developer is greedy and that original cemetery land is a gold mine. 820,000 sf of business park is no gold mine. The potential of a transit oriented mixed use development at the El Toro Y is a money maker when leased out to national tenants. The issue is tranquility vs freeway adjacency. I feel it should be acknowledged by the world while relatives want a secluded serene setting.
I believe the high profile location could be made peaceful by good design. Look at Woodbridge South Lake. It backs up to the 405 but its a peaceful once inside. The proposed swap site has a depth from a range similar the depth from 405 to Barranca and 405 to Alton. When you walk or drive on Barranca or Alton by Woodbridge Lake do you not find them peaceful?
My vote is Yes on B
Why bother trying yet again to explain that it's stupid to put 812,000 of office space next to the school instead of next to the 5/405 interchange where it's extremely accessible.
Why bother trying to explain that those employees' commutes will continue into the GP instead of ending at the 5/405.
Why bother trying to explain the corrupt process by which measure B was born.
Why bother trying to explain that money is being used to push an agenda to voters.
Why bother pointing out that the narrative of "yes" is using Veterans and supporters as pawns for the agenda of 5P.
You want something pretty? Go explore nature.
You want to honor the veterans? Go volunteer for them. Go spend time with the sick/needy veterans and those they left behind. Don't act like you're going to well up with tears of gratitude every time you pass a cemetery on the freeway. Don't act like that's making a single ounce of difference in any of those soldier's or their family's lives. You want to show the Veterans something real? Show them the country they died for cannot be bought. Honor their sacrifice by saying No to corrupt political processes. Give them an opportunity to be buried and remembered next to their living fellow citizens at the Great Park.
Not everyone is passionate about visiting the grave site. That does not mean people like me don't respect veterans. We have different way of showing our respect. I don't know of any veteran being buried at the cemetery and I really have no reason to visit. I am an immigrant and so are many who are living in Irvine. You have your standard and I have mine coming from a different culture. I appreciate your passion but don't discredit the many of us or others who does just the same. If you want to get your message out don't bury the cemetery where the public can't see or find it.
I think we want to send a different message with this Measure B vote. My message is about letting our local government and developers know they don't get to manipulate voters by using veterans as their pawns in order to re-write city plans that better suit FCBs tastes.
It sounded to me like the point was being made that a veteran cemetery by the 5/405 is more honorable to the veterans because it's more visible and easier to access. There's clearly other ways to look at it, and we're probably not going to convince each other either way on that
And hey, I appreciate you no matter where you or your family came from.