J
jmoney74
Guest
It's when you share a piece of the property. Such as your street or front landscape.
Saratoga, Condo or Single family? IC new trick?
- Thread starter Tribune
- Start date
NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
Saratoga is selling at the price that a property of its size and type is selling for in Irvine. Mendocino has similar square footage as Saratoga and costs about $80-100K more.
When you talk about condo prices...you're basically talking about attached condos. A SFR generally sells at a higher price because you generally get a bigger lot. For Saratoga, you lose a driveway.
You are not going get screwed on appraisals because appraiser uses comparable to get prices.
Take this Stonetree Manor for example:
http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/107-Sanctuary-92620/home/7216802
It's still being listed at $461 sq. ft...pretty inline with SFRs in the area.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Regarding the land ownership:
In general, if you live in a detached condo, you own the home and, unlike attached, the land directly under the home.
However, without looking at exact contract document, it's not always right Condos do not own the land.
I just checked Saratoga contract documents and bunch of others provided by IP and it seems buyer owns the land + all easements + fractional fee interest in common area.
Components of Condominium Ownership.
Each Condominium in this Phase includes all of the following components:
(a) a separate interest in a Condominium Unit as defined in Section 1351(f) of the California Civil Code,
consisting of the following element in accordance with the plans and specifications for each Condominium
Unit, as more particularly shown and described on the Phase X plan .....
Each Phase X Condominium Unit includes the afore-described envelope of space and all Improvements located therein (including, but not limited to, the Dwelling).
(b) all easements (exclusive and non-exclusive) appurtenant to the respective Condominium Unit
(c) a undivided fractional fee interest in the Phase X Common Area
As Inc said, in Irvine, TIC blurred the line between SFR and detached condo.
I looked at my docs...I own the land and the improvement.
No luck needed. Like I noted previously...Stonetree Manor is a condo with two HOA fees and is selling quite nicely.
There are several times I've seen condos list as SFRs on the MLS.
I agree with this...I mean every house is sort of unique, even if it is build by the same builder and same designs.
Aside: There is something seriously fishy about that Lamplighter property...it was sold the October of last year for a $184K loss only to be relisted at $150K more a week later?
I'm also not sure what's going on with Lilac...it's on the market of 109 days at a lower price.
This Stonetree sold for $418/sqft
http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/170-Intrigue-92620/home/7216808
This Cortile sold for $478/sqft
http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/110-Great-Lawn-92620/home/7210196
You probably right but here's a unique situation with Saratoga, there are several units of Saratoga with a drive way.
I remember there's at least 2 lot with a full car length drive way and IP ask 20k lot premium for it. Will these home consider SFR and rest of neighborhood consider detach condo?
It's all dependent on how that given city registers the plot of land your house sits on. In the case of Irvine, all homes on motor courts are viewed as condos because the county lists the property that way. That's why a lot of the "single family condos" will have a #<lot number> at the end of the address.
In terms of appraisals you can get screwed over because they will compare you to all condos in general if the appraiser isn't experienced with Irvine. The good ones can get the bank to compare you to other "single family condos".
In terms of appraisals you can get screwed over because they will compare you to all condos in general if the appraiser isn't experienced with Irvine. The good ones can get the bank to compare you to other "single family condos".
I called a real state lawyer and he clearly said that condo is condo even if it has more than 3500 sqf and single family is single family even if it is smaller than 3500 sqf. you don't own the land even if they say you own. you will get screwed when you want to sell it, bcz condo always appraise a lot lower price than single family. He mentioned that even in 2007-2011 condo price was down significantly compare to single families.
Bottom line is, Saratoga is selling the homes with a single family price now and after that , it is up to you to sell the same home with the condo label on it as single family (price wise).
Anyone knows about the condition of the Mendocino homes? Are those homes have the condo label on them too? with the price of single family? or the story is different for Mendocino?
Bottom line is, Saratoga is selling the homes with a single family price now and after that , it is up to you to sell the same home with the condo label on it as single family (price wise).
Anyone knows about the condition of the Mendocino homes? Are those homes have the condo label on them too? with the price of single family? or the story is different for Mendocino?
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
I believe Mendocino is SFR.
Irvinecommuter
New member
Tribune said:
Saratoga is selling at the price that a property of its size and type is selling for in Irvine. Mendocino has similar square footage as Saratoga and costs about $80-100K more.
When you talk about condo prices...you're basically talking about attached condos. A SFR generally sells at a higher price because you generally get a bigger lot. For Saratoga, you lose a driveway.
You are not going get screwed on appraisals because appraiser uses comparable to get prices.
Take this Stonetree Manor for example:
http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/107-Sanctuary-92620/home/7216802
It's still being listed at $461 sq. ft...pretty inline with SFRs in the area.
irvinerealtor
Well-known member
irvinehomeowner said:
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
qwerty
Well-known member
here is the legal definition in CA of a condo:
here is the link http://blog.aklandlaw.com/2005/10/a...pending-upon-the-statute-most-likely-nothing/
It is found in Civil Code section 1351 (f), which reads:
(f) A "condominium project" means a development consisting of condominiums. A condominium consists of an undivided interest in common in a portion of real property coupled with a separate interest in space called a unit, the boundaries of which are described on a recorded final map, parcel map, or condominium plan in sufficient detail to locate all boundaries thereof. The area within these boundaries may be filled with air, earth, or water, or any combination thereof, and need not be physically attached to land except by easements for access and, if necessary, support. The description of the unit may refer to (1) boundaries described in the recorded final map, parcel map, or condominium plan, (2) physical boundaries, either in existence, or to be constructed, such as walls, floors, and ceilings of a structure or any portion thereof, (3) an entire structure containing one or more units, or (4) any combination thereof. The portion or portions of the real property held in undivided interest may be all of the real property, except for the separate interests, or may include a particular three-dimensional portion thereof, the boundaries of which are described on a recorded final map, parcel map, or condominium plan. The area within these boundaries may be filled with air, earth, or water, or any combination thereof, and need not be physically attached to land except by easements for access and, if necessary, support. An individual condominium within a condominium project may include, in addition, a separate interest in other portions of the real property.
here is the link http://blog.aklandlaw.com/2005/10/a...pending-upon-the-statute-most-likely-nothing/
It is found in Civil Code section 1351 (f), which reads:
(f) A "condominium project" means a development consisting of condominiums. A condominium consists of an undivided interest in common in a portion of real property coupled with a separate interest in space called a unit, the boundaries of which are described on a recorded final map, parcel map, or condominium plan in sufficient detail to locate all boundaries thereof. The area within these boundaries may be filled with air, earth, or water, or any combination thereof, and need not be physically attached to land except by easements for access and, if necessary, support. The description of the unit may refer to (1) boundaries described in the recorded final map, parcel map, or condominium plan, (2) physical boundaries, either in existence, or to be constructed, such as walls, floors, and ceilings of a structure or any portion thereof, (3) an entire structure containing one or more units, or (4) any combination thereof. The portion or portions of the real property held in undivided interest may be all of the real property, except for the separate interests, or may include a particular three-dimensional portion thereof, the boundaries of which are described on a recorded final map, parcel map, or condominium plan. The area within these boundaries may be filled with air, earth, or water, or any combination thereof, and need not be physically attached to land except by easements for access and, if necessary, support. An individual condominium within a condominium project may include, in addition, a separate interest in other portions of the real property.
SFR need to meet zoning standard of 10 feet setback at rear yard, 5 feet at side, and 15 feet front setback from the street. Unless the builder request a alternative setback with the city and approved by the city, SFR need to met these standard. Otherwise builder will just call the project a condo and apply the appropriate building permit for it.
Saratoga did not have a 15 feet set back from the street as a true SFR, but there are few home at Saratoga with a drive way, are those unit consider SFR?
The mighty and powerful TIC did get approve for alternative setback for Mulberry (California garage portion only have 5 ft setback to the rear lot line) and Mendocino (3 feet side setback at the garage in some models).
As the builder get alternative setback request approved from the city, they blurred the line between SFR and detach condo even more.
Saratoga did not have a 15 feet set back from the street as a true SFR, but there are few home at Saratoga with a drive way, are those unit consider SFR?
The mighty and powerful TIC did get approve for alternative setback for Mulberry (California garage portion only have 5 ft setback to the rear lot line) and Mendocino (3 feet side setback at the garage in some models).
As the builder get alternative setback request approved from the city, they blurred the line between SFR and detach condo even more.
akirvine79
Member
Tribune said:
Regarding the land ownership:
In general, if you live in a detached condo, you own the home and, unlike attached, the land directly under the home.
However, without looking at exact contract document, it's not always right Condos do not own the land.
I just checked Saratoga contract documents and bunch of others provided by IP and it seems buyer owns the land + all easements + fractional fee interest in common area.
Components of Condominium Ownership.
Each Condominium in this Phase includes all of the following components:
(a) a separate interest in a Condominium Unit as defined in Section 1351(f) of the California Civil Code,
consisting of the following element in accordance with the plans and specifications for each Condominium
Unit, as more particularly shown and described on the Phase X plan .....
Each Phase X Condominium Unit includes the afore-described envelope of space and all Improvements located therein (including, but not limited to, the Dwelling).
(b) all easements (exclusive and non-exclusive) appurtenant to the respective Condominium Unit
(c) a undivided fractional fee interest in the Phase X Common Area
As Inc said, in Irvine, TIC blurred the line between SFR and detached condo.
Irvinecommuter
New member
akirvine79 said:
I looked at my docs...I own the land and the improvement.
Here's an excerpt from the IP's application with Irvine's planning commission for alternative setback:
"Alternative setback standards are a way of recognizing that housing developments do
not need to adhere to age-old setback standards in order to provide safe, quality
neighborhoods. Housing styles and needs have changed over the years and will
continue to evolve; alternative setback standards are a way for the City to recognize
and foster this evolution of housing provided it retains the quality of neighborhood
development expected of Irvine."
According to IP, SFR are so 1990's, detach-condo is the new black.
"Alternative setback standards are a way of recognizing that housing developments do
not need to adhere to age-old setback standards in order to provide safe, quality
neighborhoods. Housing styles and needs have changed over the years and will
continue to evolve; alternative setback standards are a way for the City to recognize
and foster this evolution of housing provided it retains the quality of neighborhood
development expected of Irvine."
According to IP, SFR are so 1990's, detach-condo is the new black.
qwerty
Well-known member
The setback requirements are probably city specific. It seems like driver is whether there is a shared ownership in anything. For example in Saratoga the motor court is shared by the various homes on any particular lot and the homes on the lot perhaps have an ownership interest in the motor court and therefore Saratoga is a detached comdo
Irvinecommuter
New member
BuddyLeo said:
No luck needed. Like I noted previously...Stonetree Manor is a condo with two HOA fees and is selling quite nicely.
akirvine79
Member
In Irvine, newly built homes without driveway are probably all condos. 
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
Won't it list however the listing agent wants it to list?BuddyLeo said:
There are several times I've seen condos list as SFRs on the MLS.
Irvinecommuter
New member
OpenSky said:
I agree with this...I mean every house is sort of unique, even if it is build by the same builder and same designs.
Aside: There is something seriously fishy about that Lamplighter property...it was sold the October of last year for a $184K loss only to be relisted at $150K more a week later?
I'm also not sure what's going on with Lilac...it's on the market of 109 days at a lower price.
This Stonetree sold for $418/sqft
http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/170-Intrigue-92620/home/7216808
This Cortile sold for $478/sqft
http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/110-Great-Lawn-92620/home/7210196
akirvine79 said:In Irvine, newly built homes without driveway are probably all condos.
You probably right but here's a unique situation with Saratoga, there are several units of Saratoga with a drive way.
I remember there's at least 2 lot with a full car length drive way and IP ask 20k lot premium for it. Will these home consider SFR and rest of neighborhood consider detach condo?