Presidential Elections

[eyephone]

You see Icey...nothing has changed, and nothing will going forward.  the Genie is out of the bottle and the Cat is out of the bag....can't put them back in.  A more gentile warfare is still warfare.  Just because you got slugged by a bare fist and not one in a boxing glove doesn't change the fact that you got punched in the face.  Political war is just out in the open now but it has always been there, just wrapped in a glove...

The way you are even framing the discussion shows how the programming works. Everything is wrapped in terms of "war" and "fighting." All the videos you post are depicting violent contests.

There's no mention of even cooperation in it.

That's full on Stockholm Syndrome programming at work.

I've often said if the President just appointed a General to lead the coronovirus response and used phrasing like "war", we'd have EVERYONE wearing masks and have this stupid thing under control in 2 months easy.

Not all of us are that cynical. Just because we see imperfection doesn't mean we don't stop striving to uphold a vision.

There's a reason the best and the brightest migrate to the US, but after this I wonder if we are going to have trouble recruiting the great mind of the world here.

Predator and prey Icey...that?s just reality. I?ve made no secret that I am a cynic, it is at the root of my success. At its base the ?we are all in it together?. Kumbaya ferry tale is something I have never bought into, just makes for more prey. ;D >

Does not make sense. You say your a financial advisor. But if you tell your clients not to trust government or markets. Idk if someone told me that. I would not invest with them.

 

[nosuchreality]

Yesterday afternoon in Wayne county it came dangerously close to being subverted by partisanship.

See, thats the funny thing..you guys think your guy is honest, truthful and noble, a return to a more gentile time.  The other guy is not.  The other side thinks their guy is truthful and blunt and your guy is totally corrupt and a liar.  I have stated numerous times I think they "ALL ARE LIARS AND CROOKS"...nothing is about to change...nice try though. ;D >

No...this is not about my guy being honest or your guy being a crook...this is about whether you think the electoral system in this country works or not...in essence whether democracy works or not. 

While people have fought about candidates and platform, this is the first time where there was a concerted effort by the losing candidate to claim that the electoral process is fraudulent and that there was a conspiracy to defraud the outcome of the election.  The allegations is not just on a local level...the allegations is that there were entire operations to defraud the election in 4 separate states...two of which have GOP SOS. 

I didn't hear you say that the election process was flawed in 2016 when Trump won.  Why is it flawed all of a sudden in 2020 when Trump loses?  If the election process was so flawed, why did Dems lose seats in the House and trying to get to a 50-50 tie in the Senate?  Why did the GOP take over many of the state government?

It's this level of BS that makes middle ground impossible.  There are no facts here to dispute.  There is no evidence of electoral fraud...just a bunch of people who really wanted their candidate to win and can't handle reality.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Yesterday afternoon in Wayne county it came dangerously close to being subverted by partisanship.

Yup...and why I am always amazed that people claim that state and local governments are for the people...no...state and local governments are for some of the people and much more like to be corrupted than the federal government.

 

[morekaos]

Predator and prey Icey...that?s just reality. I?ve made no secret that I am a cynic, it is at the root of my success. At its base the ?we are all in it together?. Kumbaya ferry tale is something I have never bought into, just makes for more prey. ;D >

That's a perfectly fine position to take as long as we unwrap the "freedom" and "American flag/patriotism" wrappings that most conservatives hide behind. 

If self-preservation and profit are the ultimate measure...you should be all for China and Russia.

Not at all, hard work, self reliance and risk taking are as American as apple pie!

 

[zovall]

No...this is not about my guy being honest or your guy being a crook...this is about whether you think the electoral system in this country works or not...in essence whether democracy works or not. 

While people have fought about candidates and platform, this is the first time where there was a concerted effort by the losing candidate to claim that the electoral process is fraudulent and that there was a conspiracy to defraud the outcome of the election.  The allegations is not just on a local level...the allegations is that there were entire operations to defraud the election in 4 separate states...two of which have GOP SOS. 

I didn't hear you say that the election process was flawed in 2016 when Trump won.  Why is it flawed all of a sudden in 2020 when Trump loses?  If the election process was so flawed, why did Dems lose seats in the House and trying to get to a 50-50 tie in the Senate?  Why did the GOP take over many of the state government?

It's this level of BS that makes middle ground impossible.  There are no facts here to dispute.  There is no evidence of electoral fraud...just a bunch of people who really wanted their candidate to win and can't handle reality.

Shouldn't we question the electoral process and our institutions? Just because one acknowledges the possibility of fraud does not mean that they are against democracy. If there is evidence of large scale fraud, let people bring it forward. And if there isn't evidence, then let's move on.

We should always be questioning potential issues but this is not a questioning...this is a conclusion looking for evidence.  Trump supporters start with the premise that the only way for Trump to lose is fraud and therefore there must be fraud.  It's basically how things like flat-earthers work..."Earth is flat therefore...." 

Same with COVID...it is a hoax or not dangerous therefore public health officials are partisan hacks, doctors are profiteers, and politicians/people telling others to wear masks are freedom-hating autocratics.

I think he's done a good job of sowing those seeds of doubt in our institutions and in the process we have become more polarized. I do think we should question our institutions rather than just blindly accept what they say. It will also result in making some of them stronger (and some of them breaking down).

Not all Red thinks COVID is a hoax and not all Blue thinks we should defund the police. But we tend to focus on these extremes rather than hear the concerns of the other side. How do we fix this?

 

[icey]

Nothing wrong with filing lawsuits, right guys?

CHARLESTON, S.C. ? Three attorneys have filed an ethics complaint against U.S. Sen. Lindsey Graham, accusing the South Carolina Republican of pressuring a Georgia elections official to toss out legally cast absentee votes in the presidential race.

In a complaint filed Wednesday with the Senate Select Committee on Ethics, Claire Finkelstein, Richard Painter and Walter Shaub ?urge the committee to investigate whether Senator Graham suggested that Secretary Raffensperger disenfranchise Georgia voters by not counting votes lawfully cast for the office of president.? They also ?demand clarity as to whether Senator Graham has threatened anyone with a Senate investigation of the Georgia vote tally and or taken steps to initiate such an investigation.?

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/nov/18/lindsey-graham-ethics-complaint-filed/

And by the way, the guy who pushed back on Graham for trying to pressure him to throw out ballots was another Republican.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Not all Red thinks COVID is a hoax and not all Blue thinks we should defund the police. But we tend to focus on these extremes rather than hear the concerns of the other side. How do we fix this?

No all Reds are supporters of Trump but enough Reds in power condone and support what Trump is doing. 

Blue actually call each other out...Reds don't. 

I would argue that most extremists personalize the conflict...there is a "less for me" attitude in which the lower and middle classes are pitted against each other while the upper and corporate classes continue to profit.  Our economic system is now geared to propping up the corporation over the individual.

 

[eyephone]

No...this is not about my guy being honest or your guy being a crook...this is about whether you think the electoral system in this country works or not...in essence whether democracy works or not. 

While people have fought about candidates and platform, this is the first time where there was a concerted effort by the losing candidate to claim that the electoral process is fraudulent and that there was a conspiracy to defraud the outcome of the election.  The allegations is not just on a local level...the allegations is that there were entire operations to defraud the election in 4 separate states...two of which have GOP SOS. 

I didn't hear you say that the election process was flawed in 2016 when Trump won.  Why is it flawed all of a sudden in 2020 when Trump loses?  If the election process was so flawed, why did Dems lose seats in the House and trying to get to a 50-50 tie in the Senate?  Why did the GOP take over many of the state government?

It's this level of BS that makes middle ground impossible.  There are no facts here to dispute.  There is no evidence of electoral fraud...just a bunch of people who really wanted their candidate to win and can't handle reality.

Shouldn't we question the electoral process and our institutions? Just because one acknowledges the possibility of fraud does not mean that they are against democracy. If there is evidence of large scale fraud, let people bring it forward. And if there isn't evidence, then let's move on.

We should always be questioning potential issues but this is not a questioning...this is a conclusion looking for evidence.  Trump supporters start with the premise that the only way for Trump to lose is fraud and therefore there must be fraud.  It's basically how things like flat-earthers work..."Earth is flat therefore...." 

Same with COVID...it is a hoax or not dangerous therefore public health officials are partisan hacks, doctors are profiteers, and politicians/people telling others to wear masks are freedom-hating autocratics.

I think he's done a good job of sowing those seeds of doubt in our institutions and in the process we have become more polarized. I do think we should question our institutions rather than just blindly accept what they say. It will also result in making some of them stronger (and some of them breaking down).

Not all Red thinks COVID is a hoax and not all Blue thinks we should defund the police. But we tend to focus on these extremes rather than hear the concerns of the other side. How do we fix this?

You have the right to question things. But to say that there is wide scale fraud is another thing.

By you saying there is a problem and it needs to be fix. Is another way of saying there is a problem. Sorry there is no compromise. There are results of an elections. There is only one winner not two.

 

[zovall]

You have the right to question things. But to say that there is wide scale fraud is another thing.

I say that the possibility exists for wide scale fraud.
Those who claim there is wide scale fraud should provide evidence.

 

[eyephone]

LaVar Ball says Trump lost reelection because of their 2017 feud: 'He would still be president'

If he would?ve never act a fool, he?d still be president,? Ball told the BroBible podcast. ?I would?ve been there with him, I woulda helped him out. You wanna act crazy with the Big Baller, guess what happens? Anybody real crazy with me don?t last long. ? anyone messed with Big Ballers in the long run, it?s not gonna work out for you. If Trump would?ve accepted my shoes and not actin? a fool, he would still be president. Now he gotta go. Oh well.?

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/lavar-ball-trump-lost-reelection-feud-still-be-president

LaVar Ball in the news.

 

[zovall]

Yesterday afternoon in Wayne county it came dangerously close to being subverted by partisanship.

And the Republicans changed their mind due to this?https://twitter.com/correctthemedia/status/1328969920357535744?s=20

 

[icey]

Yesterday afternoon in Wayne county it came dangerously close to being subverted by partisanship.

And the Republicans changed their mind due to this?https://twitter.com/correctthemedia/status/1328969920357535744?s=20

The guy in the video was wrong for stating where the lady's kids went to school.

But, once again you have to check the source and get the real story. The harassment is going both ways.

The Tweet claims Monica Palmer felt threatened for her family. These articles are dated the 11th, so would be curious to see when that video was taken.

?The obscentities and vulgarities were made in a general sense," said Monica Palmer. "I think it was more to disrupt and cause chaos. They weren?t directed myself or any one person.?

Neither Kinloch nor Palmer expressed concern about the threats given previous similar incidents.

"I didn?t feel threatened," Kinloch said.

Palmer said the comments were "uncomfortable," but she didn't take them as personal attacks.

"Those are not words that should be used in a public area," she said.

Of course I could always cherry pick like that Twitter account does and reframe it to look any way I want:

The individual ended his message, telling individuals to "shut the (expletive) up, (expletive)" and "Trump 2020, (expletive)."

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/n...t-wayne-county-canvassers-meeting/6246721002/
https://www.clickondetroit.com/news...eeting-interrupted-by-violent-vulgar-threats/

There's that programming again. A quick scan of that Twitter account shows it's not on the up and up.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Back to the Blue Wave/Red Wave issue...this is the stuff I am talking about

In elections for the state House, Democrats got 49% of the votes but won only 42.5% of the seats, according to WRAL. More than three-quarters of the elections were landslides in which the winning margin was more than 20 percentage points. In state Senate races, Democrats got 49% of the vote and only 44% of the seats.

In 12 of the state's 13 congressional districts Democratic candidates got well over half of the total votes, but Republicans won eight of the seats. In two-thirds of those races, the margin of victory was more than 20 percentage points. A Democratic incumbent ran unopposed in one district.

https://www.facingsouth.org/2020/11...ults-show-persistence-partisan-gerrymandering

And the minority vote also has a rural/urban divide: 

More progressive minorities generally move away from rural areas and into urban settings and suburbs.  Those who voted Trump were generally older and a lot more conservative...Trump won the Cuban American votes cuz of the "socialist" scare. 

Trump?s success in the Rio Grande Valley, says Daniel Arreola, a cultural geographer and author of Tejano South Texas, ?peels back the onion on how really conservative that Tejano ranch and small-town rural population is.?

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/11/17/trump-latinos-south-texas-tejanos-437027

 

[Irvinecommuter]

You have the right to question things. But to say that there is wide scale fraud is another thing.

I say that the possibility exists for wide scale fraud.
Those who claim there is wide scale fraud should provide evidence.

Agreed but no evidence has been provided despite multiple lawsuits.

Also...Trump's refusal to engage in a transfer of power is both dangerous to our political system and harmful on multiple front.  Peaceful transition is a real thing that many democracy strive to attain...it's not just a talking point.

 

[zovall]

I agree.

Is there a date by when he needs to concede?

 

[icey]

Today would be good

 

[Irvinecommuter]

I agree.

Is there a date by when he needs to concede?

I don't even care if he ever concedes...I just want him to put country before himself first.  Refusing to allow his subordinates to prepare for a potential transfer of power is ridiculous and anti-American.

The Trump team has prepared legally required transition memos describing policy challenges, but there are no discussions about actions they could take or pause. Instead, the White House is barreling ahead. A second official tells CNN their goal is to set so many fires that it will be hard for the Biden administration to put them all out.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/17/politics/trump-biden-natsec-transition-fires/index.html

 

[qwerty]

Not sure if you guys know but the election is over. Biden won

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Not sure if you guys know but the election is over. Biden won

Tell Trump and his supporters that...also the GOP.

A GOP member of the canvassing board in Wayne County, Mich., said President Trump called her earlier this week after she and another Republican on the board initially refused to certify election results showing President-elect Joe Biden as the winner of the presidential election.

Monica Palmer confirmed to The Washington Post that Trump called her on Tuesday night after she and William Hartmann balked at approving the election results. The two eventually relented and certified the results, but on Wednesday both Palmer and Hartmann sought to rescind their certification.

https://thehill.com/homenews/admini...ho-balked-at-certifying-election-results-says

 

[Kangen.Irvine]

Real election is December 14.