President Trump
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Spootieho, I know you've posted that you're done with this convo. Sorry for dragging you back in. It's okay to hold that opinion. You shouldn't be shamed for it. I get what you're saying. Plot Twist: I'm a woman who was touched inappropriately as a young child by a man who abused his position of authority in one traumatic event. My pediatrician. Other children's families came forward. He committed suicide over this. I also put myself in a dangerous situation as a teenager where an adult man / coworker drove me to an empty cabin up in the mountains, set up to take advantage. (I got home safely.) There have been other events but I think you get the gist.
I bet the majority of women have had a crazy incident happen to them. It doesn't always mean the unraveling of a woman's life. It makes sense why you question it. Corfman said she drank, did drugs, attempted suicide, was promiscuous all as a result of this one incident. I never drank, never tried drugs, never attempted suicide, only one relationship. Mixed feelings about her story. I'm not saying it didn't happen. It may have. Of course it's messed up if it did. But she wanted to go home and he promptly took her home, end of story. No rape, no looming threats. Pinning a whole slew of bad choices she's made for years afterwards on that event seems overly dramatic, even to me.
She said she didn't come forward earlier because her kids were young. Ugh. As a mom, that is the exact reason I WOULD come forward. As a parent, you couldn't stand the thought of something possibly happening to another child right now when it's something you might be able to prevent. Something is fishy about this story, particularly the timing. She is thrice divorced and went BK as many times. Worked at a convenience store a few years back. She sounds like a down-and-out professional victim. Maybe she could use a payday.
I get it. Dying gasp of a dinosaur era. In 20 years, people will see what this era was. No different than where California was in the early 1990s.
For me, this was the primary reason to vote for Trump.
Hillary's prior decisions to authorize war in Iraq, and to push for the invasion of Libya, disqualified her as an extremely poor decision maker. She was also very open about wanting to fight a proxy war with Russia via the war in Syria. Her push for a no-fly zone was effectively a declaration of war against Russia and would have made the world a much more dangerous place. Then you look what happens once we give up on regime change in Syria, and ISIS is defeated in less than a year. Imagine that!
On the subject of N. Korea, had we honored our deal with Qaddafi when he turned over his nuclear weapons, we would be getting a hell of lot more traction with Kim Jong-Un. Why would Kim work with us now, when the last person to turn over their nuclear weapons was allowed to be torn apart limb-from-limb in the streets? How do we re-establish any kind of credibility after that?
1) War in Iraq was not authorized by Hillary...it was authorized by Bush and Neocons.
2) Syria was a proxy war against Russia...everyone recognized that. Obviously you much rather that Russia basically won that war now and Syria is a disaster zone.
3) Libya is very very very different from North Korea.
Hillary was one of the Senators that voted to authorize the Iraq war. It's a big reason she lost to Obama in 2008. Most neocons openly supported her during the 2016 election. (Even the Bush family voted for her! Yee Haw!)
I'm fine that Assad was not toppled in Syria. There was no reason to engage in a 4th nation building exercise, considering we still had Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya to work on. Our mission was to defeat ISIS and that was accomplished.
You are sidestepping my point on Libya, which is that a lot credibility was lost as a result of our dealings with Qaddafi. Other world leaders were watching, and they now realize that we don't keep our promises to nations that hand over nuclear weapons.
1) LOL....the reason why she lost to Obama is because Obama ran a better campaign.
2) ISIS is not even close to be defeated. It's hilarious that you say that.
3) I am not sidestepping at all. Libya and Qaddafi are fundamentally different than NK. NK is the frontline of China/Russia's proxy war against US in Asia. Only reason why Libya was even an issue is cause the Europeans wanted to get in there for resources. Fundamentally different situations.
I don't have a grudge against you. I have issues with misinformation and hand-waving of facts.
Trump literally wants to make the military bigger and is actively working on dismantling the state department as well as undermining the US intelligence community and the FBI. Trump has also pull back on international engagement on serious issues like climate change and trade, which has resulted in leadership vacuums that are being taken up by Russia and China.
You can vote for whoever you want...it's kinda of the point of a democracy/republic but don't justify it with half-baked theories and Fox News talking points.
It's classic Alpha male mentality "SCOREBOARD!"...I don't recall those same people going along with Obama's policy because he won in 2008.
It's a part of the United States political culture....an era of progressive movement followed by reactionary nationalism/isolationalism...it has happened multiple times. California has the same issues 30 years ago with Pete Wilson and prop 187/215. Changing demographics and exposure to the world will move the ball down but for now, the old dying generation gets its gasp.
I?ll say it right here and now...the GOP will NOT be decimated in 2018....they will retain control of both houses.
Okay...I mean historically...pretty much every president has lost Congress in mid-terms. Not sure why a president hovering at 35% approval rating will be any different.
socal78
Well-known member
Irvinecommuter said:
Spootieho, I know you've posted that you're done with this convo. Sorry for dragging you back in. It's okay to hold that opinion. You shouldn't be shamed for it. I get what you're saying. Plot Twist: I'm a woman who was touched inappropriately as a young child by a man who abused his position of authority in one traumatic event. My pediatrician. Other children's families came forward. He committed suicide over this. I also put myself in a dangerous situation as a teenager where an adult man / coworker drove me to an empty cabin up in the mountains, set up to take advantage. (I got home safely.) There have been other events but I think you get the gist.
I bet the majority of women have had a crazy incident happen to them. It doesn't always mean the unraveling of a woman's life. It makes sense why you question it. Corfman said she drank, did drugs, attempted suicide, was promiscuous all as a result of this one incident. I never drank, never tried drugs, never attempted suicide, only one relationship. Mixed feelings about her story. I'm not saying it didn't happen. It may have. Of course it's messed up if it did. But she wanted to go home and he promptly took her home, end of story. No rape, no looming threats. Pinning a whole slew of bad choices she's made for years afterwards on that event seems overly dramatic, even to me.
She said she didn't come forward earlier because her kids were young. Ugh. As a mom, that is the exact reason I WOULD come forward. As a parent, you couldn't stand the thought of something possibly happening to another child right now when it's something you might be able to prevent. Something is fishy about this story, particularly the timing. She is thrice divorced and went BK as many times. Worked at a convenience store a few years back. She sounds like a down-and-out professional victim. Maybe she could use a payday.
morekaos
Well-known member
Winning!!
A War Trump Won
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/opinion/sunday/war-trump-islamic-state.html?referer=
But this is also a press failure, a case where the media is not adequately reporting an important success because it does not fit into the narrative of Trumpian disaster in which our journalistic entities are all invested.
I include myself in this indictment. Foreign policy is the place where the risks of electing Trump seemed to me particularly unacceptable, and I?ve tended to focus on narratives that fit that fear, from the risk of regional war in Middle East to the perils in our North Korean brinksmanship.
A War Trump Won
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/opinion/sunday/war-trump-islamic-state.html?referer=
But this is also a press failure, a case where the media is not adequately reporting an important success because it does not fit into the narrative of Trumpian disaster in which our journalistic entities are all invested.
I include myself in this indictment. Foreign policy is the place where the risks of electing Trump seemed to me particularly unacceptable, and I?ve tended to focus on narratives that fit that fear, from the risk of regional war in Middle East to the perils in our North Korean brinksmanship.
Now for a little holiday cheer ...
https://johnpavlovitz.com/2017/12/15/stop-telling-im-angry-know-wish/?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=johnpavlovitz
Dear Friend,
Thank you for your note to let me know you?re worried about me, that you?re concerned about my health?that you?re not sure that I realize I?m coming across as really angry lately.
Your assessment is correct.
I am angry.
I?m sorry.
I can imagine I?m not all that fun to be around right now, and that from time to time my words come across as combative or abrasive. I?m probably more than a bit of a downer lately and I apologize.
You?re going to have to bear with me, as I haven?t been sleeping well for about a year or so. Admittedly I?m not at my best these days, so you?ll need to forgive me. I?m chronically overtired. I?m exhausted from having to give all the sh*ts about people that you?re supposed to be giving?along with my own.
I?m worn out from keeping up on legislation and watching hearings and staying on top of details and remembering deadlines and imploring action?while you go about your day as if such things are an annoyance, is if they are a disruption of your plan, as if the expiration date for my outrage has long come and gone.
I am absolutely burnt out from trying to make my voice loud enough to counteract not only the bad people?s incredible volume?but your deafening silence. Both of these things are doing similar damage right now, sadly.
Believe me, I understand that my activism is a problem for you. Please know that your inactivism is similarly problematic for me. It?s part of the reason I am as angry as I am; because I?m not only having to fight against those who seem furiously bent on hurting people?I?m having to fight against those who don?t seem give enough of a damn that they are doing so, to say anything.
Look, I get it, I really do. It?s difficult to see so much bad news, to fully face the relentless flood of terrible, to try and wrap your brain around seemingly boundless cruelty around you. It?s tiresome to spend so much time with a closed fist. I know it?s even a pain in the rear end to endure the continual rantings of people like me on your news feed and in your timeline and across the dinner table and in the break room.
I?m tired of me too.
I?m sick of the fight too.
I?m sick of the sound of my own voice.
I?d rather not be doing this either.
I?d much rather prefer to just enjoy life, to forget about it all, to only post pictures of puppies and my kids, and to simply ignore all that ?political garbage.?
But that is what privilege looks like; to even believe I have such an option, to have the great luxury of living without urgency because I can seemingly shield myself from it all.
That is what the bad people are counting on. They?re counting on good people who are too tired, too apathetic, too selfish, or to oblivious to sustain their outrage. I am not going to give that gift to them.
As long as they?re fully invested in putting people through hell, I?m going to be as invested in pushing back against it.
I think the people I love are worth it.
I think you and the people you love are worth it.
I think people I?ll never meet are worth it.
And that?s the rub here: love will often look a lot like rage, as it fiercely fights on behalf of those who are being attacked.
So yes, angry is not all that I am, but I am rightly angry.
And it would be really helpful if we could carry the load of outrage right now.
That would actually be a source of rest and joy and breath.
Friend, if you really want me to be less angry, you might try being a little more angry.
I am angry, friend.
I wish you were angry too.
https://johnpavlovitz.com/2017/12/15/stop-telling-im-angry-know-wish/?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=johnpavlovitz
Dear Friend,
Thank you for your note to let me know you?re worried about me, that you?re concerned about my health?that you?re not sure that I realize I?m coming across as really angry lately.
Your assessment is correct.
I am angry.
I?m sorry.
I can imagine I?m not all that fun to be around right now, and that from time to time my words come across as combative or abrasive. I?m probably more than a bit of a downer lately and I apologize.
You?re going to have to bear with me, as I haven?t been sleeping well for about a year or so. Admittedly I?m not at my best these days, so you?ll need to forgive me. I?m chronically overtired. I?m exhausted from having to give all the sh*ts about people that you?re supposed to be giving?along with my own.
I?m worn out from keeping up on legislation and watching hearings and staying on top of details and remembering deadlines and imploring action?while you go about your day as if such things are an annoyance, is if they are a disruption of your plan, as if the expiration date for my outrage has long come and gone.
I am absolutely burnt out from trying to make my voice loud enough to counteract not only the bad people?s incredible volume?but your deafening silence. Both of these things are doing similar damage right now, sadly.
Believe me, I understand that my activism is a problem for you. Please know that your inactivism is similarly problematic for me. It?s part of the reason I am as angry as I am; because I?m not only having to fight against those who seem furiously bent on hurting people?I?m having to fight against those who don?t seem give enough of a damn that they are doing so, to say anything.
Look, I get it, I really do. It?s difficult to see so much bad news, to fully face the relentless flood of terrible, to try and wrap your brain around seemingly boundless cruelty around you. It?s tiresome to spend so much time with a closed fist. I know it?s even a pain in the rear end to endure the continual rantings of people like me on your news feed and in your timeline and across the dinner table and in the break room.
I?m tired of me too.
I?m sick of the fight too.
I?m sick of the sound of my own voice.
I?d rather not be doing this either.
I?d much rather prefer to just enjoy life, to forget about it all, to only post pictures of puppies and my kids, and to simply ignore all that ?political garbage.?
But that is what privilege looks like; to even believe I have such an option, to have the great luxury of living without urgency because I can seemingly shield myself from it all.
That is what the bad people are counting on. They?re counting on good people who are too tired, too apathetic, too selfish, or to oblivious to sustain their outrage. I am not going to give that gift to them.
As long as they?re fully invested in putting people through hell, I?m going to be as invested in pushing back against it.
I think the people I love are worth it.
I think you and the people you love are worth it.
I think people I?ll never meet are worth it.
And that?s the rub here: love will often look a lot like rage, as it fiercely fights on behalf of those who are being attacked.
So yes, angry is not all that I am, but I am rightly angry.
And it would be really helpful if we could carry the load of outrage right now.
That would actually be a source of rest and joy and breath.
Friend, if you really want me to be less angry, you might try being a little more angry.
I am angry, friend.
I wish you were angry too.
Irvinecommuter
New member
morekaos said:fortune11 said:morekaos said:
Amazing how easily you get "triggered"
See? You?ll never get it.
I get it. Dying gasp of a dinosaur era. In 20 years, people will see what this era was. No different than where California was in the early 1990s.
Liar Loan
Well-known member
morekaos said:
For me, this was the primary reason to vote for Trump.
Hillary's prior decisions to authorize war in Iraq, and to push for the invasion of Libya, disqualified her as an extremely poor decision maker. She was also very open about wanting to fight a proxy war with Russia via the war in Syria. Her push for a no-fly zone was effectively a declaration of war against Russia and would have made the world a much more dangerous place. Then you look what happens once we give up on regime change in Syria, and ISIS is defeated in less than a year. Imagine that!
On the subject of N. Korea, had we honored our deal with Qaddafi when he turned over his nuclear weapons, we would be getting a hell of lot more traction with Kim Jong-Un. Why would Kim work with us now, when the last person to turn over their nuclear weapons was allowed to be torn apart limb-from-limb in the streets? How do we re-establish any kind of credibility after that?
Irvinecommuter
New member
Liar Loan said:
1) War in Iraq was not authorized by Hillary...it was authorized by Bush and Neocons.
2) Syria was a proxy war against Russia...everyone recognized that. Obviously you much rather that Russia basically won that war now and Syria is a disaster zone.
3) Libya is very very very different from North Korea.
Liar Loan
Well-known member
Irvinecommuter said:
Hillary was one of the Senators that voted to authorize the Iraq war. It's a big reason she lost to Obama in 2008. Most neocons openly supported her during the 2016 election. (Even the Bush family voted for her! Yee Haw!)
I'm fine that Assad was not toppled in Syria. There was no reason to engage in a 4th nation building exercise, considering we still had Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya to work on. Our mission was to defeat ISIS and that was accomplished.
You are sidestepping my point on Libya, which is that a lot credibility was lost as a result of our dealings with Qaddafi. Other world leaders were watching, and they now realize that we don't keep our promises to nations that hand over nuclear weapons.
Irvinecommuter
New member
Liar Loan said:
1) LOL....the reason why she lost to Obama is because Obama ran a better campaign.
2) ISIS is not even close to be defeated. It's hilarious that you say that.
3) I am not sidestepping at all. Libya and Qaddafi are fundamentally different than NK. NK is the frontline of China/Russia's proxy war against US in Asia. Only reason why Libya was even an issue is cause the Europeans wanted to get in there for resources. Fundamentally different situations.
Irvinecommuter
New member
Liar Loan said:
I don't have a grudge against you. I have issues with misinformation and hand-waving of facts.
Trump literally wants to make the military bigger and is actively working on dismantling the state department as well as undermining the US intelligence community and the FBI. Trump has also pull back on international engagement on serious issues like climate change and trade, which has resulted in leadership vacuums that are being taken up by Russia and China.
You can vote for whoever you want...it's kinda of the point of a democracy/republic but don't justify it with half-baked theories and Fox News talking points.
Lot of trump supporters today think they are political geniuses because their guy ?won? .
Basically all the arguments , from a whole host of issues ranging from sexual predatory behavior to mass corruption to just general nastiness ? when trump supporters (notice I am not saying trump voters ) and Fox News contributors cannot argue logic or cannot avoid appearance of double standard , they just fall back on , hey ?we won ? .
Never mind the one time fluke of electoral college or the trends evidenced by recent elections . No , they are actually geniuses playing 5 dimensional (or was it six dimensional?) chess and the Democrats , independents and other rubes just don?t get it .
When the gop gets decimated in 2018 midterms , they will try and find some ?genius? argument - hey it was all about trumps plan to clear the swamp or something , something
Basically all the arguments , from a whole host of issues ranging from sexual predatory behavior to mass corruption to just general nastiness ? when trump supporters (notice I am not saying trump voters ) and Fox News contributors cannot argue logic or cannot avoid appearance of double standard , they just fall back on , hey ?we won ? .
Never mind the one time fluke of electoral college or the trends evidenced by recent elections . No , they are actually geniuses playing 5 dimensional (or was it six dimensional?) chess and the Democrats , independents and other rubes just don?t get it .
When the gop gets decimated in 2018 midterms , they will try and find some ?genius? argument - hey it was all about trumps plan to clear the swamp or something , something
Irvinecommuter
New member
fortune11 said:Lot of trump supporters today think they are political geniuses because their guy ?won? .
Basically all the arguments , from a whole host of issues ranging from sexual predatory behavior to mass corruption to just general nastiness ? when trump supporters (notice I am not saying trump voters ) and Fox News contributors cannot argue logic or cannot avoid appearance of double standard , they just fall back on , hey ?we won ? .
Never mind the one time fluke of electoral college or the trends evidenced by recent elections . No , they are actually geniuses playing 5 dimensional (or was it six dimensional?) chess and the Democrats , independents and other rubes just don?t get it .
When the gop gets decimated in 2018 midterms , they will try and find some ?genius? argument - hey it was all about trumps plan to clear the swamp or something , something
It's classic Alpha male mentality "SCOREBOARD!"...I don't recall those same people going along with Obama's policy because he won in 2008.
It's a part of the United States political culture....an era of progressive movement followed by reactionary nationalism/isolationalism...it has happened multiple times. California has the same issues 30 years ago with Pete Wilson and prop 187/215. Changing demographics and exposure to the world will move the ball down but for now, the old dying generation gets its gasp.
morekaos
Well-known member
fortune11 said:When the gop gets decimated in 2018 midterms , they will try and find some ?genius? argument - hey it was all about trumps plan to clear the swamp or something , something
I?ll say it right here and now...the GOP will NOT be decimated in 2018....they will retain control of both houses.
Irvinecommuter
New member
morekaos said:fortune11 said:When the gop gets decimated in 2018 midterms , they will try and find some ?genius? argument - hey it was all about trumps plan to clear the swamp or something , something
I?ll say it right here and now...the GOP will NOT be decimated in 2018....they will retain control of both houses.
Okay...I mean historically...pretty much every president has lost Congress in mid-terms. Not sure why a president hovering at 35% approval rating will be any different.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_midterm_election