Prenuptial - good or bad?
- Thread starter Laing_Lies_IHB
- Start date
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4walls4me_IHB
New member
<p>Hey LL,</p>
<p>I don't think any of us thought to ask what kind of pre-nup you'd be offering her....generous or cutting her off from everything? Sure you don't want to give her half of everything forever, but how much are you willing to support her with? </p>
<p>With your income disparity, I assume the idea (conscious or not) would be for her to focus on the household things, supporting you, and raising children. And that will make for a great partnership if things work out. But if she does that, she's not going to be pursuing any opportunities to increase her income as she would if she were single. That needs to be accounted for. Especially if she is spending 18 years raising your children, you would owe her. If the pre-nup is generous, than you are showing you truly care for your future wife. If you planning to nickel and dime her for everything if doesn't work out, why should she take a chance on you? From your post, it sounded like you didn't want to support her at all should you divorce. That gives you way too much power for what should be a partnership, esp if you leave her or if it is nobody's fault. If there is a pre-nup, it should be designed to protect both of you (or you probably should not be getting married). </p>
<p> </p>
<p>I don't think any of us thought to ask what kind of pre-nup you'd be offering her....generous or cutting her off from everything? Sure you don't want to give her half of everything forever, but how much are you willing to support her with? </p>
<p>With your income disparity, I assume the idea (conscious or not) would be for her to focus on the household things, supporting you, and raising children. And that will make for a great partnership if things work out. But if she does that, she's not going to be pursuing any opportunities to increase her income as she would if she were single. That needs to be accounted for. Especially if she is spending 18 years raising your children, you would owe her. If the pre-nup is generous, than you are showing you truly care for your future wife. If you planning to nickel and dime her for everything if doesn't work out, why should she take a chance on you? From your post, it sounded like you didn't want to support her at all should you divorce. That gives you way too much power for what should be a partnership, esp if you leave her or if it is nobody's fault. If there is a pre-nup, it should be designed to protect both of you (or you probably should not be getting married). </p>
<p> </p>
nirvinerealtor_IHB
New member
<p>LL,</p>
<p>People equate win-win to fairness. Conflicts and resentments arise when someone feels there is unfairness involves, which you absolutely do not want in your marriage. Communication is the key to a constant win-win negotiation. I have a trick that I go by...always let the other person think you are more than fair.</p>
<p>People equate win-win to fairness. Conflicts and resentments arise when someone feels there is unfairness involves, which you absolutely do not want in your marriage. Communication is the key to a constant win-win negotiation. I have a trick that I go by...always let the other person think you are more than fair.</p>
Adam_IHB
New member
@ Laing_Lies: Maybe you are already married by now, but here's my inflation adjusted 2?. If you really feel the need to get married, I strongly suggest a prenup. Think of it as an insurance policy for the both of you. Just because you have auto-insurance, it doesn't mean you will be involved in a wreck. Get my drift? A prenup is no different.
If I had to do it all over again, I likely would avoid marriage. My wife and I began dating in undergraduate school back in 1996--me as a senior and her as a sophmore and we shared bills and an apartment shortly afterwards. Once I completed my studies, I went to work for the biggest employer in the area and began making a decent amount of coin while waiting for her to complete her studies. A couple of years into my career and it turns out I am on the fast track, so we agree to deal with a long distance relationship as she pursues her masters degree at Rutgers. Another 2 years later, her student and work study visas are about to expire forcing her to move back home. In Taiwan she is making terrible money and I miss her dearly so I asked her parents for permission to propose her hand in marriage. We get married and I bring her to the states and begin applying for legal status. Neither of us care much for living in the Midwest, so while I am continuing to make good money I give her the freedom to explore job opportunities anywhere in the US. I am paying the bills and all of our credit card debt. Six months after a frustrating job search I help her obtain a position within my company. We now have two incomes although I'm making 3x the money she is. Strategically, I help her make moves within the company to better her opportunities for advancement and I continue to invest a ton of time wrangling the immigration offices (which unfortunately were a 4 hour drive away in Minneapolis each and every visit).
In short here's how it breaks down:
1996-2001 (Our wonderful courtship)
2002-2005 (Happily married, relocated to CA)
Late 2006 (Finally obtained wife's unconditional legal status)
Early 2007 (Wife's fourth raise now puts her salary $3K higher than mine making us high earning DINK's)
April (Wife feels distant and drops a bomb stating she "wants more")
May (Wife moves out, but never files for divorce)
July (Wife wants to reconcile claiming she was "depressed" and I never found any proof of infidelity, but regarless the damage is done)
Aug (Wife is recruited by Walmart for a fantastic opportunity and relocates to Arkansas so we're doing the long distance thing again)
Sept/Oct (Wife's behavior is similar to prior 2007, but I am stuck dealing with severe trust issues)
My point is, people change sometimes regardless of how hard you try to make it work. I felt that every time I climbed a stair in life, I turned around and gave her a hand to pull her up. The one time she climbed a stair before me, I was expecting to see reach down for me but it felt like she was gone and thus the trust was broken. Within myself I always knew I would do whatever it took to make a marriage work, but what I didn't count on is my significant other bailing with no warning. There are no guarantees.
During the separation, she was very insistent about dividing all our assets 50/50 starting FROM 1996! Legally this might not be possible, but it was shocking to me she considered this as fair. Apparently all my efforts to bring her to the States, teach her new skills like how to drive, and help fast track her career didn't mean anything. And trust me, her domestic skills weren't so hot either so don't anyone think she slaved around the house and should be compensated accordingly--I easily pulled my share (although I do not cook and she's fantastic).
So earlier this year I had to face the fact how stupidly naive I was for not protecting myself or my contributions to the relationship. Ideally, I would not be married, but I am and so I will continue trying to make this relationship work. No matter how normal she is behaving now, we are very far apart right now physically and emotionally. Since very few never-been-married people are turned off by the suggestion of remaining unmarried, I am emphatic about having a prenuptial agreement. In fact I would even support voting for legislation making prenups manditory.
The days of Ozzie & Harriet are gone and I've realized times have changed.
Nowadays I focus on my health. I focus on my wealth. And I am enjoying my freedom. To this day I'm still married and remain monogamous however I can not guarantee we will survive the long distance relationship this time. Right now it seems very likely I will lose a significant portion of our net worth if I am unable to resolve my trust issues. The whole situation almost doesn't seem fair since her family is very well off and I grew up embarrassingly poor and stand to inherit nothing. My goal here is to provide a real life scenario in hopes to open the eyes of some star-gazed lovers who feel marriage is a must. Marraige does not equal love. Only love equals love. Marriage has been likened to the merging of two corporations--a far cry from what the institution of marriage should be. My best wishes to you and everyone else with what ever you decide and may your experiences be more pleasant than mine.
Btw, what is the most fattening dessert? Wedding cake. ;-)
If I had to do it all over again, I likely would avoid marriage. My wife and I began dating in undergraduate school back in 1996--me as a senior and her as a sophmore and we shared bills and an apartment shortly afterwards. Once I completed my studies, I went to work for the biggest employer in the area and began making a decent amount of coin while waiting for her to complete her studies. A couple of years into my career and it turns out I am on the fast track, so we agree to deal with a long distance relationship as she pursues her masters degree at Rutgers. Another 2 years later, her student and work study visas are about to expire forcing her to move back home. In Taiwan she is making terrible money and I miss her dearly so I asked her parents for permission to propose her hand in marriage. We get married and I bring her to the states and begin applying for legal status. Neither of us care much for living in the Midwest, so while I am continuing to make good money I give her the freedom to explore job opportunities anywhere in the US. I am paying the bills and all of our credit card debt. Six months after a frustrating job search I help her obtain a position within my company. We now have two incomes although I'm making 3x the money she is. Strategically, I help her make moves within the company to better her opportunities for advancement and I continue to invest a ton of time wrangling the immigration offices (which unfortunately were a 4 hour drive away in Minneapolis each and every visit).
In short here's how it breaks down:
1996-2001 (Our wonderful courtship)
2002-2005 (Happily married, relocated to CA)
Late 2006 (Finally obtained wife's unconditional legal status)
Early 2007 (Wife's fourth raise now puts her salary $3K higher than mine making us high earning DINK's)
April (Wife feels distant and drops a bomb stating she "wants more")
May (Wife moves out, but never files for divorce)
July (Wife wants to reconcile claiming she was "depressed" and I never found any proof of infidelity, but regarless the damage is done)
Aug (Wife is recruited by Walmart for a fantastic opportunity and relocates to Arkansas so we're doing the long distance thing again)
Sept/Oct (Wife's behavior is similar to prior 2007, but I am stuck dealing with severe trust issues)
My point is, people change sometimes regardless of how hard you try to make it work. I felt that every time I climbed a stair in life, I turned around and gave her a hand to pull her up. The one time she climbed a stair before me, I was expecting to see reach down for me but it felt like she was gone and thus the trust was broken. Within myself I always knew I would do whatever it took to make a marriage work, but what I didn't count on is my significant other bailing with no warning. There are no guarantees.
During the separation, she was very insistent about dividing all our assets 50/50 starting FROM 1996! Legally this might not be possible, but it was shocking to me she considered this as fair. Apparently all my efforts to bring her to the States, teach her new skills like how to drive, and help fast track her career didn't mean anything. And trust me, her domestic skills weren't so hot either so don't anyone think she slaved around the house and should be compensated accordingly--I easily pulled my share (although I do not cook and she's fantastic).
So earlier this year I had to face the fact how stupidly naive I was for not protecting myself or my contributions to the relationship. Ideally, I would not be married, but I am and so I will continue trying to make this relationship work. No matter how normal she is behaving now, we are very far apart right now physically and emotionally. Since very few never-been-married people are turned off by the suggestion of remaining unmarried, I am emphatic about having a prenuptial agreement. In fact I would even support voting for legislation making prenups manditory.
The days of Ozzie & Harriet are gone and I've realized times have changed.Nowadays I focus on my health. I focus on my wealth. And I am enjoying my freedom. To this day I'm still married and remain monogamous however I can not guarantee we will survive the long distance relationship this time. Right now it seems very likely I will lose a significant portion of our net worth if I am unable to resolve my trust issues. The whole situation almost doesn't seem fair since her family is very well off and I grew up embarrassingly poor and stand to inherit nothing. My goal here is to provide a real life scenario in hopes to open the eyes of some star-gazed lovers who feel marriage is a must. Marraige does not equal love. Only love equals love. Marriage has been likened to the merging of two corporations--a far cry from what the institution of marriage should be. My best wishes to you and everyone else with what ever you decide and may your experiences be more pleasant than mine.
Btw, what is the most fattening dessert? Wedding cake. ;-)
lawyerliz_IHB
New member
McFly is right.
Adam, you should dump her and to hell with the money. Unless you have kids?
Prenups are for people with kids, who don't want the spouse's kids to get the money. (As are wills, trusts, etc.) That said, if you are a beautiful young thing marrying into a wealthy family. . .well, you need a good lawyer. Families who are THAT wealthy, got that way worrying more about money than anything else. You will probably be happier with less money.
My son's wife recently dumped him after a year of marriage. Nobody has any money. He gave her an expensive family ring. She gave it back. Her dad thinks she's making a bad mistake. It's only been a couple of months, but I don't thing he'd take her back at this point. I hope not, she caused him such anguish. No kids. My son got a life lesson is picking spouses.
I think she's nuts, but I'm prejudiced.
Adam, you should dump her and to hell with the money. Unless you have kids?
Prenups are for people with kids, who don't want the spouse's kids to get the money. (As are wills, trusts, etc.) That said, if you are a beautiful young thing marrying into a wealthy family. . .well, you need a good lawyer. Families who are THAT wealthy, got that way worrying more about money than anything else. You will probably be happier with less money.
My son's wife recently dumped him after a year of marriage. Nobody has any money. He gave her an expensive family ring. She gave it back. Her dad thinks she's making a bad mistake. It's only been a couple of months, but I don't thing he'd take her back at this point. I hope not, she caused him such anguish. No kids. My son got a life lesson is picking spouses.
I think she's nuts, but I'm prejudiced.
lawyerliz_IHB
New member
<p>Ok, between this post and some old ones, I now know the gender of most everybody.</p>
<p>Grumble, grumble. I liked not knowing if the poster was a girl or boy. Why should it matter??: But it does. I liked watching my mind debate the issue and wondering how my post in response would change if I knew.</p>
<p>Grumble, grumble. I liked not knowing if the poster was a girl or boy. Why should it matter??: But it does. I liked watching my mind debate the issue and wondering how my post in response would change if I knew.</p>