Prenuptial - good or bad?

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Laing_Lies_IHB

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<p>Since we're talking about everything here ... I wanted to see how you guys felt about pre-nups ...</p>

<p>Good? Bad? Ugly? </p>

<p>Any real-life experiences/horror stories?</p>
 
<p>Ask this guy. (we want prenup, YEAH!)</p>

<p><img height="216" alt="" width="200" src="http://www.zmemusic.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/kanye-west.jpg" /></p>
 
Depends on the economic situation and the couple. Sometimes, the higher earner feels more secure about a marriage if he/she believes that money was not a motivating factor.





As a lawyer, I would have to say that it is the prudent step to take.
 
<p>IC -</p>

<p>Let's say you weren't married ... how would you bring up the issue now to someone that you're considering marriage with?</p>

<p>It's a touchy subject ... but I do agree with you that it's necessary.</p>

<p> </p>
 
I'm sorry Laing_Lie. . .they took my feelings away when I went to law school.





I think that it is such a personal thing. . .if the disparity is vast, I would think that the other person would get some inkling. It would very hard to have the discussion if the difference is pretty close. The person who is bringing it up would have to know his/her significant other well enough. . . it may be a good litmus test for marriage.
 
I suppose it depends. Are you looking to keep just your pre-marital assets and debts as yours, or did you want to include post-marital assets and debts?
 
You don't need a prenup for pre-marital assets as long as you keep it separate during the marriage (i.e. keep the funds separate from your community account). Pre-martial debt is yours to keep.





That will be $50 from everyone. . .
 
Next time you are watching tv together and you see some news about a celebrity divorce with one party losing millions; just say, "That's why I told myself to never marry unless I get a pre nup first".





Then glance over and gauge their reaction - proceed from there. That's how I'm planning on doing it if I had any assets to worry about.
 
<p>My opinion is that if you're both young and it's your first marriage, it's not worth it. The whole point of marriage is being part of a team, working towards common goals, joining as one, etc. If you start out with the "mine is mine" mentality, you probably shouldn't be getting married.</p>

<p>If you're on marriage 2 or greater, either spouse has children from a previous relationship, or you've already established yourself and your career (I'm talking 15 or 20 years out of school) and have substantial assets to protect, by all means you should consider a prenup.</p>
 
<p>Ugh. The forum just ate my post. I agree with Marty on this one.</p>

<p>With respect to property, though, I would still suggest delineating. Take this example: LL buys his house. Three years later he gets married, but keeps title in his name alone. Over time, they have kids, decide to add a pool, and remodel the kitchen. Improvements are paid for with joint funds. Also, while Mom is home with the kids, she maintains the home and takes on the role of handyman. Twelve years into the marriage they divorce. Who get the equity increase from time and improvements made? Expectations without definition can be very, very messy.</p>
 
Eva, the answer is it depends (like every legal question)





If the house was fully paid for by LL before his marriage:





The house and any increased equity goes to LL alone.


Any joint funds that were used to improve the house get compensated (like an interest-free loan).





If a mortgage existed on the property:





LL would get his down payment back first, the joint account would get compensate for improvements, and the rest would get divided pro-rata according to the amount of payments made by LL v. the joint account.





For example: $500K house, LL makes a prudent 20% down payment ($100K) for a 30 years fixed loan (no refinancing, it gets messy). LL pays for the house for 5 years and then gets married. LL and wife makes a $50K improvement. Ten years later, LL sadly gets divorced. The house appreciates to $1 million and still has $250K left on the mortgage.





Mortgage gets paid first: $250K


LL gets $100K for his down payment.


Joint account gets $50k for the improvement.


That leaves $600K: LL paid 1/3 of the time while the joint paid the other 2/3. LL would get $200K while joint account gets $400.


LL would get half of the joint account.


In the end, LL would get $300K as separate property and $225K of the account. LL's ex-wife would get $225.





Disclaimer: this is a pure hypothetical and should not be relied upon for any real life situation. Please consult a lawyer before making any legal decisions.





The rest, while compiling, is irrelevant for this particular analysis. LL's potential ex-wife could get spousal support based on Eva's fact pattern.





Of course, it is always better to have things spelled out in writing ahead of time. I am just speaking in generality.





Anyways, all of you now owe me $200.
 
<p>IC - Thanks for the research, but it was more a rhetorical question than an attempt to recreate the bar exam. My only point was what you noted, "it is always better to have things spelled out in writing ahead of time."</p>

<p>I've gots a copy of Witkin on my desk, too, ya know. </p>
 
Laing, I generally agree with the comments above if you are young just starting out don't even worry about one. If there are large disparities in assets, I'd get one. The way to bring it up: she or he is marrying you for you and not what material posessions you have. During the marriage of course you share everything. Another thing to keep in mind even if there aren't disparities in assets/income: Spousal Support. In California, this becomes a factor after you have been married over 5 years. If you have been married over 10 years, you can be on the hook forever! So this is another consideration in a prenuptual. If you have kids, unfortunately you can't put child custody and support arrangements in one, but this is a whole other can of worms.
 
<p>If you can't talk about this with your prospective spouse, you have no business getting married. I'm all for the romance and passion of love, but it's based in the context of real life. If you can't discuss a pre-nup, how can you expect to discuss retirement plans, home purchases, political donations, living wills, college funds, or even something as mundane as filing taxes.</p>

<p>Full disclosure: My wife refused to marry me until I cleaned up my credit, yet married me with no pre-nup. The mind of a woman is a mysterious thing.</p>
 
I think it's a very bad idea to start a marriage with a pre-nup; it's almost better not to get married. In reality, you get what you give in a marriage; asuming you choose your mate VERY wisely, choose one with the best characters.
 
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