Obamacare on Life Support article

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Perspective said:
spootieho said:
Stating speculation as if it is a fact, is dishonest and can be considered a lie.  Just saying...
Fair enough. So, on a scale of despicability, where would speculation about tax returns lie (pun intended), relative to years of false statements, extreme hyperbole, and scapegoating of ACA?
You asked a question, and I gave an answer. 

I don't really care to answer the rest of your post, but I will this time...  The speculation on the tax returns is just another annoying frustrating thing that we've been bombarded with over the last year.  People are fed up with all this nonsense.  Most of the people that want to see Trump's tax returns do so so that that they can dishonestly attack him. 

As for the ACA.  The ACA is a complete piece of garbage that has had a pretty substantial negative impact on my family.  You wont see me siding with it.  I am pretty ignorant of the Ryan's bill.  I am curious about it.  I have a feeling I wont like it. 

I'm trying my best to give you considerate responses and not to put you on ignore.  You've become the most annoying poster on this board over the last few months.  Chill out a bit.  Don't be that annoying little dog that's always barking and trying to bite people's ankles. I am not team Trump.  I didn't vote for Trump.  I voted against Trump.  I agree with some of the things he does.  I don't care about some of the things he does.  I disagree with some of the things he does. 
 
Challenging folks to think about this highly unusual administration, what it says and is trying to do, should be annoying. I'm annoyed too.
 
The Economist has reported on these types of metrics. Interesting stuff. Like, should we really be trying to get Americans, two-thirds of whom are overweight, to lose weight? The longevity issues we're dealing with on SSI and Medicare benefit from decreased lifespans due to obesity, even when you adjust for increased healthcare costs during their lives.

If be curious to see if there is any correlation between the counties that have the highest opioid death rate and the counties thst have the highest percentage of people on Obama care. Overdose deaths really started to skyrocket in 2010.
 
B2FiNiTY said:
As for the ACA.  The ACA is a complete piece of garbage that has had a pretty substantial negative impact on my family.

how and why?

Here are a couple of the items (there are more):
My baby was born when it passed.  Babies couldn't get insured for the first 6 months because of bad clauses in the law.  They fixed that right away, but it was stressful worrying those 6 months.
My wife and I got kicked off our own group plan.  The ACA prohibits husband/wife owned businesses from having their own group plan.  (what bullshit).  Comparable plans at the same insurer were 30% higher.
 

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I'll speculate the rationale for prohibiting self-employed folks, including a husband and wife business, from purchasing a group health insurance plan is to avoid sham businesses created to attain possibly more favorable group plan rates and tax treatment. If you have an employee(s), I'd guess ACA allows you to create a group insurance plan.

I have sole proprietor and partnership friends who despise ACA. Before ACA, they had catastrophic plans with high deductibles and coverage caps which kept their premiums low. Those plans are no longer available, they're forced to buy better coverage and pay for it. This would anger any healthy person, and the vast majority of us are healthy. At least these folks are getting better coverage for the increased cost. Some of us are simply paying thousands more in ACA taxes with no effect on our health insurance plans...
 
B2FiNiTY said:
As for the ACA.  The ACA is a complete piece of garbage that has had a pretty substantial negative impact on my family.

how and why?

I wrote this earlier in this thread but it bears repeating...

I have always worked for Fortune 100 companies. Thank God i had my kids prior to ACA. Both C- sections cost me a $500.00  deductible.  Post ACA my 20 year doc went to concierge medicine ($2000.00 a year retainer so I lost my Doctor)  my deductible is now $6000.00, my former insurance is no longer a choice (I lost my insurance company) and my premiums are up 20% (where was my $2500/year savings?).  I am basically self funding with a catastrophic care policy...but abortions are covered...thanks ACA and Obama...that worked out great!!!


 
Everyone can complain about healthcare insurance premiums rising well above the rate of inflation, before and after ACA. For folks in the individual market, we would need to examine the annual rise in cost relative to the rise for average employer-provided plans, and identify the changes in coverage (apples-to-apples), to arrive at an accurate analysis of the effect of ACA on their lives.

For higher-earners under employer-provided plans, the analysis is easy. The price of ACA is the additional taxes you pay, and yet receive no additional healthcare benefits in coverage.
 
That's right, I left out that my taxes rose...cherry on top!!! Not one thing about that POS worked out for me...not one.
 
morekaos said:
That's right, I left out that my taxes rose...cherry on top!!! Not one thing about that POS worked out for me...not one.

Got it. You don't like it because it negatively affects you. Trump promised to repeal it, which might benefit you. Trump is not repealing it. RyanCare might benefit you, in that you might have available again a high deductible, lower coverage benefits, and lower coverage caps plan, that should cost less annually.
 
Medicine or poison?
Amending Obamacare could break parts of the health-insurance market
It is far from clear that the Republican plan will work

http://www.economist.com/news/unite...plan-will-work-amending-obamacare-could-break

FOR such an important bill, it has an unusually simple name. On March 6th Republicans in the House unveiled?and President Donald Trump endorsed?the American Health Care Act (AHCA). The bill would overhaul Obamacare, which Republicans have decried since its passage in 2010. Its nickname is ?Ryancare? after Paul Ryan, the Speaker of the House.

Obamacare had two main ingredients: an expansion of Medicaid (health insurance for the poor); and a reform of the so-called ?individual? health-insurance market, which serves those who are not covered through an employer. Republicans say both bits are failing. Their proposed fixes may not fare much better.

First, Medicaid. In compliant states, Obamacare expanded eligibility for the programme to all those earning less than 138% of the federal poverty line, or $16,400 for an individual in 2017. So far, this has boosted Medicaid?s rolls by 12m, which accounts for nearly three-fifths of the improvement in health-insurance coverage since 2010. (Then, 16% of Americans went uninsured; today, only 8.8% do.)

The new bill would, in stages, remove federal funding for Medicaid?s expansion after 2020. At the same time, it would change how the federal government funds health care for those left in the programme. Currently, Washington helps pick up the tab for the medical expenses of those enrolled, chipping in a little more than half the total bill. The AHCA would instead give states a fixed payment for each person, and link it to medical inflation. States could choose how to spend the money.

Republicans say these changes are necessary because Medicaid is inefficient and provides nearly worthless coverage. States have little incentive to control costs. Amazingly, several studies have found that Medicaid does not improve the health of those enrolled in it. Republicans also reckon that letting states decide how to run the programme will unleash innovation and experimentation, and hence better coverage.

Critics scoff at that. In most states that did not go along with the Obamacare expansion, Medicaid is a bare-bones programme. In only one, Wisconsin, are childless adults eligible, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation, a think-tank. In Texas and Alabama parents cease to qualify at just 18% of the poverty line (an annual income of about $3,600 for a family of three). The left worries that states like these have no interest in experimenting with the best ways to help the poor.

In any case, states that did expand Medicaid would gradually lose the extra cash Obamacare gives them. This will alienate some Republican governors. House Republicans probably hoped the slow pace of change would ease worries. But on March 7th John Kasich, governor of Ohio, called the plan ?counter-productive?.

Medicaid reform, then, is stoking internal opposition among moderates in the party. Proposed changes to the individual market are causing ire on the right.

Obamacare established exchanges, government-run marketplaces where people can buy insurance. Those earning less than 400% of the poverty line, or $47,550 in 2017 for an individual, get tax credits to help pay the premiums. These are more generous at lower incomes. They are also pegged to the cost of insurance, which varies widely by age and place. To stop insurers designing plans so as to attract only healthy people, a thicket of regulations guarantees minimum standards. To ensure healthy people buy the pricier plans that result, the ?individual mandate? fines all those who do not buy insurance.

Republicans have spent years promising to tear down most of this edifice. But without 60 votes in the Senate, they can get at only bits of it. The AHCA would change the tax credits so that they vary with age, but not income or geography (although they would taper out at high incomes?see chart). Previously, Republicans had argued that insurance would remain affordable because deregulation would bring down costs. But under the AHCA, most of Obamacare?s rules would remain.

In many places, the funding cuts would be dramatic. In Alaska the average tax credit would fall by over 70%, according to Kaiser. The bill?s right-wing critics, however, want to abolish the subsidies entirely. Campaign groups like the Club for Growth have joined the House ?freedom caucus? and Senator Rand Paul in slamming a ?new entitlement programme?.

The bill does scrap one crucial regulation: the individual mandate. In its stead, anyone who goes without insurance would have to pay 30% more in premiums, for one year, if they change their mind. Some worry this is not a sharp enough stick to keep healthy people in the market. Mario Molina, chief executive of one insurer, told the Wall Street Journal that premiums could rise by 30% next year as a result. Because the tax credits do not rise along with premiums, big price increases would force people out of the market, increasing the risk of a so-called ?death spiral?.

The AHCA?s total likely effect on coverage, and on the budget, is uncertain. Analysts have not yet scored the proposal (other than its $594bn in tax cuts over a decade). Republicans think their short, simple-sounding bill is clearing up a mess. But in insurance markets, even the smallest changes can have huge effects.
 
morekaos said:
I am basically self funding with a catastrophic care policy...but abortions are covered...thanks ACA and Obama...that worked out great!!![/b][/size][/color]

"Abortion coverage is prohibited from being required as part of the federally-established essential benefits package"

You may want to redirect your anger on that one ...
 
Perspective said:
morekaos said:
That's right, I left out that my taxes rose...cherry on top!!! Not one thing about that POS worked out for me...not one.

Got it. You don't like it because it negatively affects you. Trump promised to repeal it, which might benefit you. Trump is not repealing it. RyanCare might benefit you, in that you might have available again a high deductible, lower coverage benefits, and lower coverage caps plan, that should cost less annually.

Yes, the question was how it negatively affected someone but I am not alone.  There are millions like me who saw the same effect on them in one way or another. The needs of the few do not outweigh the needs of the many.  I am the many.  Deadbeats are the few.
 
Let's step back for a minute, and lose the "I am a self-made and self-contained island of success" rhetoric. You are not. I am not.

Should fed/state government be involved in any way in the healthcare business? Should healthcare delivery be a completely free market with caveat emptor principles gleefully applied? What we're trying to discuss, is where these lines should be drawn. Vilifying ObamaCare helped win elections. Now the hard/impossible part - adjusting the line drawing to fulfill the rhetoric.
 
Unfortunately, we're not going to hear here, from someone who benefits from ObamaCare - that family of four in rural Kentucky making $30K who absolutely hates ObamaCare and voted for Trump, and doesn't even know their state level health insurance plan is heavily subsidized by the evil ObamaCare; and that if it were actually repealed, would cost them dearly every year in either higher premiums or forgone health insurance coverage.

But why should we care about these "deadbeats," right?
 
Yes, of course it should. I hate how most people on both sides always default to the parabolic argument of all or none.  There is a need for some government involvement and some private sector competition.  Obamacare is more of one than the other. It uses the governments power of regulation and taxation to force the issue.  That is too much of one.
 
Perspective said:
Unfortunately, we're not going to hear here, from someone who benefits from ObamaCare - that family of four in rural Kentucky making $30K who absolutely hates ObamaCare and voted for Trump, and doesn't even know their state level health insurance plan is heavily subsidized by the evil ObamaCare; and that if it were actually repealed, would cost them dearly every year in either higher premiums or forgone health insurance coverage.

But why should we care about these "deadbeats," right?

I'll give you three..good hard working people I know who were not covered by insurance and enrolled enthusiastically  in Obamacare the first year.  All three dropped it as too expensive, or they thought it would be free and it wasn't.  Two are now on medi-cal and pay nothing and the third is uninsured by choice.  No benefit but to move more people onto the government dole.  And for that? Insurance for all the rest of us got worse.  Don't lift everyone up...drag all of us down so that its "fair" and equally crappy...Worked great don't you think?
 
I wasn't trying to create a strawman, just trying to set the table for the foundational premise that we need government involvement in healthcare at some level. Let's discuss where that level should be. RyanCare eliminates the mandate and the taxes on higher earners*, and there are consequences to the entire system these changes create.

I'll be nominally better off if RyanCare is enacted, and people similarly situated to me will be too; but many people won't be - people who disproportionately voted for Trump.

*Pet Peeve - The media likes to use the term wealthy in this, and most, contexts, but wealth is different from income. Wealth and income are correlated, but there are many high earners who aren't wealthy, and many wealthy people who do not have high income each year.
 
Perspective said:
I wasn't trying to create a strawman, just trying to set the table for the foundational premise that we need government involvement in healthcare at some level. Let's discuss where that level should be. RyanCare eliminates the mandate and the taxes on higher earners*, and there are consequences to the entire system these changes create.

I'll be nominally better off if RyanCare is enacted, and people similarly situated to me will be too; but many people won't be - people who disproportionately voted for Trump.

*Pet Peeve - The media likes to use the term wealthy in this, and most, contexts, but wealth is different from income. Wealth and income are correlated, but there are many high earners who aren't wealthy, and many wealthy people who do not have high income each year.

When sick people go to the ER as their means to get health care and are unable to afford the exorbitant costs, you end up covering it when paying for medical care/insurance premiums or in tax dollars that reimburse hospitals (to some degree).

 
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