Losses Outside of Irvine

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30 LIVINGSTON PLACE, Mission Viejo, CA 92694

List Price: $580,000

Last Sale: 04/21/04

Sales Price: $660,000

Bedrooms: 3

Full Baths: 2

Partial Baths: 1

Square Feet: 1,775

Lot Size: 2,000 Sq. Ft.

Year Built: 2002

Listing Date: 11/30/07

On Market: 0 day

Type: SFR

Status: ACTIVE

MLS #: S514141

**********************

25011 FAIRTIME CIRCLE, Laguna Niguel, CA 92677

List Price: $999,995

Last Sale: 03/22/07

Sales Price: $1,075,000

Bedrooms: 5

Full Baths: 3

Partial Baths: 0

Square Feet: 3,000

Lot Size: 5,618 Sq. Ft.

Year Built: 2000

Listing Date: 11/30/07

On Market: 0 day

Type: SFR

Status: ACTIVE

MLS #: S514150

***********************

25932 ERNESTINE COURT, Laguna Hills, CA 92653**

List Price: $683,850

Last Sale: 08/01/06

Sales Price: $879,500

Bedrooms: 4

Full Baths: 3

Partial Baths: 1

Square Feet: 2,383

Lot Size: 6,500 Sq. Ft.

Year Built: 1980

Listing Date: 11/29/07

On Market: 1 day

Type: SFR

Status: ACTIVE

MLS #: S514115
 
<p>12571 Buaro ST


Garden Grove, CA 92840</p>

<p><strong>Price: $400,000 </strong></p>

<p>$/Sq. Ft.: $324</p>

<p>Beds: 4


Baths: 2


Sq. Ft.: 1,235</p>

<p>Sale History:</p>

<strong>05/25/2005 $530,000</strong>


08/03/1993 $163,000


<p><img alt="" src="http://i-0.rfimg.us/photo/46/bigphoto/273/P607273_0.jpg" /> </p>

<p><a href="http://www.redfin.com/stingray/do/printable-listing?listing-id=1243527">http://www.redfin.com/stingray/do/printable-listing?listing-id=1243527</a></p>
 
<p>I'm seeing 15-30% declines on 3/2 detached houses in Anaheim and Garden Grove, and 10%-20% (at the worst) in Orange and Fullerton. I see a lot of houses that last sold for $600K-something now priced at $400K-something in Anaheim and Garden Grove. Orange and Fullerton are slowly following in that direction. More and more detached houses up there are breaking the $400K barrier as well on the way down.</p>

<p>Here is an example (a 29% drop so far; REO): </p>

Price: $450,000


12522 Ranchero WAY


Garden Grove, CA 92843


Beds: 3


Baths: 2


Sq. Ft.: 1,291


$/Sq. Ft.: $349


Lot Size: 7,198 sq. ft.


<p>Sales History


10/03/2007 $514,009


08/11/2006 $639,000


02/14/2006 $565,000


</p>

<p>Numerically, one of my saved searches that had an upper bound of $450K for 3/2 houses had 9 results returned in August. Now it has 98 results. Another, slightly different search had 1-2 results now has 74 returned. </p>
 
South County in general is bad right now...Chances are, in most places, if the place was last sold in 2004 or later, it's a rollback. If they're asking well above the last price, it will most likely be on the market for a while.





Aliso Viejo - A broker said he estimates price/sq ft for the whole city is off 15-20%. I would not argue with that. It could be even higher. New lower comps are being established all the time. More than one neighborhood I'm watching is off $100k from peak.





I would estimate the decline is similar in parts of Laguna Hills, Mission Viejo, Lake Forest and Rancho Santa Margarita- 20-30% losses on particular properties are easy to find.





Talega - Pretty common to see 20% off here as well on non-luxury properties.





San Juan/Rancho Santa Margarita lower-end condos - The worst of the worst. We're seeing 30-40% and up declines from the peak in some cases.
 
<p>Ooo! Ooo! 41% loss in Anaheim! In about a year, too!</p>

<p>1623 East Chestnut PL


Anaheim, CA 92805</p>

<p><strong>Price: $380,000</strong></p>

<p>$/Sq. Ft.: $266</p>

<p>Beds: 3


Baths: 2


Sq. Ft.: 1,426</p>

<p>Sale History:</p>

<strong>10/05/2006 $654,000</strong>


08/11/2006 $580,000


<p><img alt="" src="http://i-0.rfimg.us/photo/46/bigphoto/790/P607790_0.jpg" /> </p>

<p><a href="http://www.redfin.com/stingray/do/printable-listing?listing-id=1257028">http://www.redfin.com/stingray/do/printable-listing?listing-id=1257028</a></p>
 
<p>I have so many to choose from now...a mere $100K loss no longer impresses me. I need a 39% loss like this one now.</p>

<p>701 North Bush ST


Anaheim, CA 92805</p>

<p><strong>Price: $399,000</strong></p>

<p>$/Sq. Ft.: $309</p>

<p>Beds: 4


Baths: 2


Sq. Ft.: 1,290</p>

<p>Sale History:</p>

10/01/2007 $349,300


<strong>09/29/2006 $660,000</strong>


11/21/1997 $149,000


06/27/1997 $95,000

<p><img alt="" src="http://i-0.rfimg.us/photo/46/bigphoto/518/R712518_0.jpg" /> </p>

<p><a href="http://www.redfin.com/stingray/do/printable-listing?listing-id=1295239">http://www.redfin.com/stingray/do/printable-listing?listing-id=1295239</a></p>
 
To T!m: I recently saw a 2005 SFR selling for 1.3M (ocean side of 73) and claiming to be appraised at 2.1M (if their description is true, then it should be worth 2.1M. So pretty reasonable I guess
 
Is this rumor true? I heard that no homeowners in Irvine own the land on which their homes are built, it is all leased by the Irvine Co., generally for 55 years. Does it mean the Irvine Co. can kick you out after your lease expires (I would think so)?
 
"Is this rumor true? I heard that no homeowners in Irvine own the land on which their homes are built, it is all leased by the Irvine Co."





I don't know where that rumor comes from, but it does pop up time to time. No, it is not true. People in Irvine own their properties.
 
<p><em>I don't know where that rumor comes from, but it does pop up time to time. No, it is not true. People in Irvine own their properties.</em> </p>

<p>Actually, I think most of them don't. The HOA has the land so encumbered that ownership is questionable. Also in the state of Condos you technical own the space but not the land. For a detached condo, I don't know if the land parcel is technically in your name and in the case of the zero-lot line what happens with the easements. </p>

<p>But let's face facts, in Irvine, you are lucky if you can do what you want on your back patio let alone do anything to the visible parts of the front or side landscaping.</p>

<p>Straight up though, you are right. The land is owned, instead of leased. In Hawaii it is referred to fee simple versus leasehold. In Minnesota the Indian Reservaton often have lake front land that is leased. Leases lapse and fights often insue.</p>

<p> </p>
 
NSR,





I thought about going into a discussion of property rights, but I didn't have the energy. The key thing is that whatever property rights are conveyed to the owner are "owned" and fully transferable at the desires of the owner. There is no lease arrangement where these property rights revert back to an owner of the underlying property.
 
Ugh. Ok, let's go through this slowly. If you own a true SFR, you own the land. TIC has some properties in Laguna and, I think, Newport, where they lease the land, but if you look at your title, you will know for sure. With respect to detached condos, you likely own the land, and the same should be true for townhouses. For attached condominiums, you do not own the land, but own one, or two, or more "volumes of air," but likely own an undivided 1/[# of units in your bldg] share of the building.





For example, if you own an attached condo where your building consists of 8 units in each building, you would likely hold title to an undivided 1/8th interest in the building. If the condo complex consists of 8 buildings, you would also likely hold an undivided 1/64th interest in the common areas as well.





For detached condos, you would likely own your lot, and an undivided 1/[number of units in immediate development] interest in the common areas.





If the land your home is on is leased, this will be disclosed at the time of offer - and will likely be hinted at by the bargain price. <em>Read your paperwork, including the title, people.</em> If you don't understand it, consult a lawyer or knowledgeable realtor.





If you can buy a home on Balboa Island for $400K, it likely sits on leased land. Read the disclosures.
 
I am going to apologize upfront, because I just responded to CapitalismWorks' comment on the main blog about "no more land". And, I feel extra snarky tonight because of it.





Seriously, if you do not know if whether the home you are buying is leasehold or fee simple, then you shouldn't be buying a home.





Do you really think in 99 years, Donald Bren will rise from the grave, and create a housing apocalypse like we have never seen before? I would take the odds on Joan Irvine Smith doing that, before I would take the odds on Bren doing that.
 
<em>>>But let's face facts, in Irvine, you are lucky if you can do what you want on your back patio let alone do anything to the visible parts of the front or side landscaping.</em>





Don't get me started about HOAs. That said, in some older areas of Irvine, there are no HOAs, and, even better, the homes sit on ~5,000 sq ft lots. For the HOA adverse who want to live in Irvine, it's possible.
 
<p>Here is a "new" listing for $235 sq ft in Coto. Boy, is this going to screw up the comps. I find the first part of the description to be a new high in description courage; "Spectacular custom home in Coto!" Spectacularly what? Spectacularly outdated? Maybe it is just me, but I find this property to be one of least attractive in Coto. Tax assessment shows $1,144,440 which means it sold or was refi'd in the not to distant past for around $1,144,440. The "new" listing price is $844,900. Oh, I forgot to mention that this "new" listing has actually been for sale for quite awhile, athough I don't know exactly how long.</p>

<p>Let's be optimistic and pretend this spectacular custom home will sell for $825,000. C'mon, think positive. And a 5% commission is $41,250. That is a loss of $360,690 or 31% from the tax assessed value.</p>

<p>As it says in the Redfin listing, "Hurry and bring your offers -- this one will go fast. Just needs a little cosmetic TLC." I swear that my snarky little self did not think that up. It is right there in the listing. Where can I get some of <strong>those</strong> glasses?</p>

<p>http://www.redfin.com/stingray/do/printable-listing?listing-id=1325923</p>
 
I was just flipping through a "Homes and Land" r.e. book and found one page loaded with area REO's. Check out this chick's website and click on "properties" on the left margin. The first page says it all..... <a href="http://www.terribruno.com/">Laguna Niguel homes for sale, CA</a>
 
<p>Here's a 35% loss that also happens to be for sale for only $40K more than the 2003 sale price. The $/sqft also caught my eye.</p>

<p>9282 Pacific AVE


Anaheim, CA 92804</p>

<p><strong>Price: $390,000</strong></p>

<p><strong>$/Sq. Ft.: $239</strong></p>

<p>Beds: 4


Baths: 1.75


Sq. Ft.: 1,630</p>

<p>Sale History:</p>

05/01/2006 $605,000


<strong>07/31/2003 $350,000</strong>


04/16/2001 $230,000


08/07/1998 $165,000


03/01/1991 $192,500


03/09/1989 $185,000


<p><img alt="" src="http://i-0.rfimg.us/photo/46/bigphoto/390/P609390_0.jpg" /> </p>

<p><a href="http://www.redfin.com/stingray/do/printable-listing?listing-id=1280177">http://www.redfin.com/stingray/do/printable-listing?listing-id=1280177</a></p>
 
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