Las Ventanas Plans 2+3 vs. Maricopa Plans 1+2
- Thread starter ps99472
- Start date
NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
@qwerty -
None to my knowledge, and yes, I asked. And as a result I've not had a single person lose their home due to overstated income. I know many others that acted the same way. I've never carried the water that "it's OK just because lots of other people are doing it."
I actually did refuse to represent people, including a very close relative in his bid to buy here in Irvine. He had not worked (profitably) since I've been here in Orange County (and still hasn't) but is advanced in age and worried like many others that he would get "priced out" as he'd not saved any $$$ for retirement. He'd also lost his previous home here in NTUS during a previous downturn. He went and bought with someone else as his broker, and you can almost literally mark the peak of the Irvine market with his purchase date. Needless to say it was a source of tension at all the family gatherings from other family members.
He's made only a handful of payments in the last few years but has been able to live in a nice million dollar home the whole time. They've been scheduled for trustee's sale for forever and I don't know how they've managed to stall for so long. Meanwhile I've made my mortgage payment month-in, month-out on my attached condo here in Irvine. Who's the dummy? I dunno. But I sleep just fine at night.
If you really think that no one's gotten hurt by those who've broken the rules after all that's gone on in the last few years, again I don't know what to say.
@trojanman -
If you think that it's OK to try to steal that key because"the client asked you to",
or
If you think that it's OK to reveal someone's online ID and share their in-real-life home address (especially if it is a pretty outspoken and opinionated person who's made some online enemies),
or
If you think it's OK to seek kickbacks for referrals (who do you think is paying for those?)*
or
If you think that it's OK to lie to my face, even though it needlessly costs other people in rearranging their schedules (when the truth would have saved everyone time and energy)
FYI, If you really are worried that you're sharing too much info, "none of your business" is a fine answer; at least it's the truth.
or
If you think that doctoring someone's financial docs is merely "jumping the gun a few times"
then you'll inevitably be running into problems...
For the record I think you're a smart guy who is underserving himself and his clients with the shortsighted ethical choices. You'll be blackballed by more and more professionals if you continue in the same way as you are currently. Any one of the violations above could cost you your license. I was under the impression that these were the exact "not your typical realtor" behaviors people wanted to avoid in the first place.
-IrvineRealtor
*are you still sticking with that denial, for the record? because you-know-who is reading this...
As I mentioned, we're all human, and we all make mistakes including myself, but I don't consider this among them.
My paid subscription allowed access to the plans and expressly allowed sharing. I spoke directly with the owner of the company and he only had issue with the fact that I wasn't password-protecting the access. While I could have contested the issue further, I chose the more conservative response and respected his request and complied. And shared the change publicly when it happened.
Everone has a choice in who they'd want to work with, if they decide they want help. I sincerely wish you luck and think that in 10 years you'll come to agree with me on these points.
-IrvineRealtor
yo... if i can mediate. I know both IR and SCCPA. Both guys are really good guys. IR is the king of west irvine (fighting frank agahi and chris merrit, but he comes out on top). They are both more educated than the standard realtor. Both have graduate degrees if I'm not mistaken. That's besides the point. Being in the same industry, well educated, and therefore rightfully opinionated, they are bound to get into a disagreement about certain issues.
)
qwerty
Well-known member
IR - im just curious, during the RE bubble did you represent any buyers who used stated income loans and lied? did any of your clients stretch the truth? Given how prevalent that was im guessing you did represent some buyers who did just that. Im guessing you did not withdraw from the transaction and got your commission? If you did you are a rare human. Everyone is willing to bend the rules (some just flat out break them) if they can benefit, especially if no one is getting hurt.
usctrojancpa
Well-known member
Thank you for the kind words. We definitely have a different style, I pride myself on not being a typical realtor.akim997 said:
irvinerealtor
Well-known member
qwerty said:
@qwerty -
None to my knowledge, and yes, I asked. And as a result I've not had a single person lose their home due to overstated income. I know many others that acted the same way. I've never carried the water that "it's OK just because lots of other people are doing it."
I actually did refuse to represent people, including a very close relative in his bid to buy here in Irvine. He had not worked (profitably) since I've been here in Orange County (and still hasn't) but is advanced in age and worried like many others that he would get "priced out" as he'd not saved any $$$ for retirement. He'd also lost his previous home here in NTUS during a previous downturn. He went and bought with someone else as his broker, and you can almost literally mark the peak of the Irvine market with his purchase date. Needless to say it was a source of tension at all the family gatherings from other family members.
He's made only a handful of payments in the last few years but has been able to live in a nice million dollar home the whole time. They've been scheduled for trustee's sale for forever and I don't know how they've managed to stall for so long. Meanwhile I've made my mortgage payment month-in, month-out on my attached condo here in Irvine. Who's the dummy? I dunno. But I sleep just fine at night.
If you really think that no one's gotten hurt by those who've broken the rules after all that's gone on in the last few years, again I don't know what to say.
@trojanman -
If you think that it's OK to try to steal that key because"the client asked you to",
or
If you think that it's OK to reveal someone's online ID and share their in-real-life home address (especially if it is a pretty outspoken and opinionated person who's made some online enemies),
or
If you think it's OK to seek kickbacks for referrals (who do you think is paying for those?)*
or
If you think that it's OK to lie to my face, even though it needlessly costs other people in rearranging their schedules (when the truth would have saved everyone time and energy)
FYI, If you really are worried that you're sharing too much info, "none of your business" is a fine answer; at least it's the truth.
or
If you think that doctoring someone's financial docs is merely "jumping the gun a few times"
then you'll inevitably be running into problems...
For the record I think you're a smart guy who is underserving himself and his clients with the shortsighted ethical choices. You'll be blackballed by more and more professionals if you continue in the same way as you are currently. Any one of the violations above could cost you your license. I was under the impression that these were the exact "not your typical realtor" behaviors people wanted to avoid in the first place.
-IrvineRealtor
*are you still sticking with that denial, for the record? because you-know-who is reading this...
usctrojancpa
Well-known member
Ok IR2 enough please, I'm asking nicely now. Calling me a theft, unethical, and/or a liar is getting old and out of line (whether you do it directly or indirectly). Don't worry, if I'm the rogue unethical realtor that you try to portray me to be I'll have my licensed revoked in short order...until that time please stop with the defaming posts/comments on public forums. Thank you.
ucla bruin
New member
panda
Well-known member
Akim,
I?ve never met you, but as a fellow Korean brother and an old time IHBer, I sort of want to look out for you. Your current problem of qualifiing for a loan may be a blessing to you and your family in disguise. I know you mentioned that you want to work hard now so that you can spend a lot of time with your kids later down the road, which is also a goal of mine. Honestly if I were in your shoes and the financial scenario (high dual income and low cash reserves because it is all in your townhome) that you painted for us, I would not be able to sleep at night. You should consider selling your townhome so that you have about $200 - $300k in the bank before going into this $830k North Park deal. If your wife tells you that she does not want to work and would rather care for the children fulltime, you will have a lot of burden and stress hanging over your shoulders. If your wife is pushing you to get this house, you need to have a serious talk with her. I don?t know what it is with Koreans. (Like RC describes it, the Italians among Asians). We try to impress other Koreans who don?t even like you or even care about you.
I ran into a similar situation when getting my loan as I needed to rent out my townhome here in Chicago. If you don?t have 30% equity in your primary residence, the banks will not give you credit for the income even if you have a renter in place. So I needed my 2009 and 2010 W2s income to cover both my townhome mortgage and the new mortgage I am getting for my new home in June 30, 2011. Since my wife wanted to stay home full time for our baby twin ( we both agreed that this was best for our boys), I could not use 1/3 of her income for my loan. Now, I am trying to extract the extra $10,000 positive cash flow I get from my other rental property to qualify for the $390,000 loan. Without the rental income, I can only qualify for $300,000 assuming my townhome is empty. If I get this loan, all three of my mortgages will total to almost $1 million, but I can sleep at night as I have close to this amount in cash removed from the equity of my home.
As for USCTrojan? dude we are good friends, and I love you bro. and thank you for closing my brother-in-law in Diamond Bar, but I have to agree with IR2 on this one that advising a client to use a Phantom rental contract is not grey? but more in the black. Many honest borrowers today are suffering due to the liars getting loans in the past.
I?ve never met you, but as a fellow Korean brother and an old time IHBer, I sort of want to look out for you. Your current problem of qualifiing for a loan may be a blessing to you and your family in disguise. I know you mentioned that you want to work hard now so that you can spend a lot of time with your kids later down the road, which is also a goal of mine. Honestly if I were in your shoes and the financial scenario (high dual income and low cash reserves because it is all in your townhome) that you painted for us, I would not be able to sleep at night. You should consider selling your townhome so that you have about $200 - $300k in the bank before going into this $830k North Park deal. If your wife tells you that she does not want to work and would rather care for the children fulltime, you will have a lot of burden and stress hanging over your shoulders. If your wife is pushing you to get this house, you need to have a serious talk with her. I don?t know what it is with Koreans. (Like RC describes it, the Italians among Asians). We try to impress other Koreans who don?t even like you or even care about you.
I ran into a similar situation when getting my loan as I needed to rent out my townhome here in Chicago. If you don?t have 30% equity in your primary residence, the banks will not give you credit for the income even if you have a renter in place. So I needed my 2009 and 2010 W2s income to cover both my townhome mortgage and the new mortgage I am getting for my new home in June 30, 2011. Since my wife wanted to stay home full time for our baby twin ( we both agreed that this was best for our boys), I could not use 1/3 of her income for my loan. Now, I am trying to extract the extra $10,000 positive cash flow I get from my other rental property to qualify for the $390,000 loan. Without the rental income, I can only qualify for $300,000 assuming my townhome is empty. If I get this loan, all three of my mortgages will total to almost $1 million, but I can sleep at night as I have close to this amount in cash removed from the equity of my home.
As for USCTrojan? dude we are good friends, and I love you bro. and thank you for closing my brother-in-law in Diamond Bar, but I have to agree with IR2 on this one that advising a client to use a Phantom rental contract is not grey? but more in the black. Many honest borrowers today are suffering due to the liars getting loans in the past.
akim997 said:
With all of the demonizing of 'r'ealtors and talk about cleaning things up, looking around it still seems difficult to find a 'r'ealtor worth their salt or with all of their 'scruples'...I am not just talking about what I read on forums, but also in my daily life. I mean what's the difference between lying on one application or another? It's still lying. Actually it's not even lying, it's taking someone who sees you as trusted, knowledgeable expert...and compelling them to lie.
usctrojancpa
Well-known member
How about when someone who uploads copy-written floor plans with the name of the companies who own them taken off onto their site and passing them off as their own? I just can't stand people who have a "holier than thou" complex when they are not the saint they portray themselves to be. Like I said before...."let he who is without sin cast the first stone."shadax said:
irvinerealtor
Well-known member
USCTrojanCPA said:
As I mentioned, we're all human, and we all make mistakes including myself, but I don't consider this among them.
My paid subscription allowed access to the plans and expressly allowed sharing. I spoke directly with the owner of the company and he only had issue with the fact that I wasn't password-protecting the access. While I could have contested the issue further, I chose the more conservative response and respected his request and complied. And shared the change publicly when it happened.
Everone has a choice in who they'd want to work with, if they decide they want help. I sincerely wish you luck and think that in 10 years you'll come to agree with me on these points.
-IrvineRealtor
usctrojancpa
Well-known member
Here's the reality, we are both good agents but with different styles and we both aren't angels who have made mistakes along the way. Neither of us are perfect and we'll learn while continuing to refine our skills and knowledge. The playground is big enough for the both of us. I would like to keep things positive and focus on providing good content on the forum so that the members can benefit from it.IrvineRealtor said:USCTrojanCPA said:
As I mentioned, we're all human, and we all make mistakes including myself, but I don't consider this among them.
My paid subscription allowed access to the plans and expressly allowed sharing. I spoke directly with the owner of the company and he only had issue with the fact that I wasn't password-protecting the access. While I could have contested the issue further, I chose the more conservative response and respected his request and complied. And shared the change publicly when it happened.
Everone has a choice in who they'd want to work with, if they decide they want help. I sincerely wish you luck and think that in 10 years you'll come to agree with me on these points.
-IrvineRealtor
ucla bruin
New member
Now, everybody group hug.
enough with the fights...
@Panda... thanks for the note. i'm reconsidering the situation. we are reviewing are other options.
For me though, buying a house in irvine isn't about the korean show-off factor (i won't deny that it exists). rather, my wife grew up in irvine and really loves the area. not only the schools, but the fact that everything is so "familiar". i've been here for 20 years, so most of my life. i'm familiar, comfortable, and its the closest city to my work. believe, me, i'd otherwise move north since all of our friends are in la. there's no one to impress since no one EVER wants to drive down here to visit, not even friends in La Habra. I tried to get friends over for a bbq to watch some college ball... they all said "sure, but let's go to xxx's house, its closer".
Why $830k? it was just the price for a detached SFR. Right or wrong, we decided we only wanted to move one time. Big enough for family, but small enough you wouldn't want to downsize. Driveway for a 3rd car. Newer home without need for upgrading, and something you can just live in for awhile. My life is too crazy to worry about things like this. I've got $190K in the bank, but apparently its not enough... ouch. How the heck are people supposed to survive these days? How many people are walking around with $1MM in the bank??? I guess a lot. I'm certainly not. If the true measure of affordability is that the mortgage payment is "just a drop in your bucket", then I'm moving to somewhere I don't want to be. Back in 2002, when I bought my condo, I stretched... stretched beyond all imagination... single, not very much income, renting rooms to buddies... but that turned out to be a pretty good risk. I guess I had that in the back of my mind. For me, I believe I have only upside in what I'm doing (career), so creating a fixed, non-inflation adjusted fixed payment didn't seem like a bad idea. But the more I think about it you do make a lot of sense, so thanks for looking out. For me, I also do have a fallback. Mom's been pretty successful in real estate, so I can receive assistance as needed in the future.
Lastly, regarding (some) Koreans... what you referenced is something I do dislike. Why the need? It made me sad that many short sales I visited were korean families who chose to overextend themselves for a house. Look at 8 inglenook. Korean. What bothered me was the options they "had to have" from the builder... viking appliances probably cost them an extra $10K... took the price of that property to over $1.055MM. Really? If it was that much of a stretch, why did you not take no options? Duh. I'm sure koreans aren't the only one who got into this mess, and I may be unjust in my feelings, but thats what i feel. At the same time, I know a lot of good korean families who do things the right way, work a hard honest life, and are happy doing just that. at the same time, i went to a birthday dinner for my wife's friend. saw a group of the "wrong" koreans. rent expensive apartments on the westside because it's "cool", loked out in the latest fashion, and just sat there talking about things i have no interest in. maybe its because they are single, but i dont know. as a car enthusiast, i was also really annoyed at a guy talking about his "porsche"... what was it? cayman (non-s)... saying how "great" it was. i almost blew up in my head. none of my business, so i didnt say anythin, but any guy who buys a cayman is buying a piece of crap just for its label. reminds me of the people who would buy a BMW 318... buy something because you want it, not what you think other people will like. you can never go wrong with that. i wont win "looker" points with a 2006 scion, but hey, i like it!
@Panda... thanks for the note. i'm reconsidering the situation. we are reviewing are other options.
For me though, buying a house in irvine isn't about the korean show-off factor (i won't deny that it exists). rather, my wife grew up in irvine and really loves the area. not only the schools, but the fact that everything is so "familiar". i've been here for 20 years, so most of my life. i'm familiar, comfortable, and its the closest city to my work. believe, me, i'd otherwise move north since all of our friends are in la. there's no one to impress since no one EVER wants to drive down here to visit, not even friends in La Habra. I tried to get friends over for a bbq to watch some college ball... they all said "sure, but let's go to xxx's house, its closer".
Why $830k? it was just the price for a detached SFR. Right or wrong, we decided we only wanted to move one time. Big enough for family, but small enough you wouldn't want to downsize. Driveway for a 3rd car. Newer home without need for upgrading, and something you can just live in for awhile. My life is too crazy to worry about things like this. I've got $190K in the bank, but apparently its not enough... ouch. How the heck are people supposed to survive these days? How many people are walking around with $1MM in the bank??? I guess a lot. I'm certainly not. If the true measure of affordability is that the mortgage payment is "just a drop in your bucket", then I'm moving to somewhere I don't want to be. Back in 2002, when I bought my condo, I stretched... stretched beyond all imagination... single, not very much income, renting rooms to buddies... but that turned out to be a pretty good risk. I guess I had that in the back of my mind. For me, I believe I have only upside in what I'm doing (career), so creating a fixed, non-inflation adjusted fixed payment didn't seem like a bad idea. But the more I think about it you do make a lot of sense, so thanks for looking out. For me, I also do have a fallback. Mom's been pretty successful in real estate, so I can receive assistance as needed in the future.
Lastly, regarding (some) Koreans... what you referenced is something I do dislike. Why the need? It made me sad that many short sales I visited were korean families who chose to overextend themselves for a house. Look at 8 inglenook. Korean. What bothered me was the options they "had to have" from the builder... viking appliances probably cost them an extra $10K... took the price of that property to over $1.055MM. Really? If it was that much of a stretch, why did you not take no options? Duh. I'm sure koreans aren't the only one who got into this mess, and I may be unjust in my feelings, but thats what i feel. At the same time, I know a lot of good korean families who do things the right way, work a hard honest life, and are happy doing just that. at the same time, i went to a birthday dinner for my wife's friend. saw a group of the "wrong" koreans. rent expensive apartments on the westside because it's "cool", loked out in the latest fashion, and just sat there talking about things i have no interest in. maybe its because they are single, but i dont know. as a car enthusiast, i was also really annoyed at a guy talking about his "porsche"... what was it? cayman (non-s)... saying how "great" it was. i almost blew up in my head. none of my business, so i didnt say anythin, but any guy who buys a cayman is buying a piece of crap just for its label. reminds me of the people who would buy a BMW 318... buy something because you want it, not what you think other people will like. you can never go wrong with that. i wont win "looker" points with a 2006 scion, but hey, i like it!
woodburyowner
Well-known member
Just spoke to the agent at Maricopa. Sounds like they are getting slammed with pre-quals and inquiries. Right now there is no broker co-op. She mentioned that Plan 2 model will be absolutely stunning.