Irvine Schools

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Dont' know what all the schools are (see the cachement area maps on iusd.org to figure it out) but both Alderwood Elementary and Vista Verde are fairly prestigious and feed into Uni High. Likely others too, can't remember the names - tonye will likely chime in with them.
 
<p>ABC123 - Universtiy Park? From the article you linked</p>

<p>"While University Park has lower state test scores than other less diverse Irvine campuses..."</p>

<p>blackacre-seeker: Also if you go to rental-lving.com you can get addresses for various rental complexes. Sometimes (not always, but somtimes) the school boundaries seem a little particular so that more of the rental properties (including rental properties had have subsidized renters within them) seem to mostly feed into one school, with housing owners feeding into another school. Also, some schools get in relocated interesting ways (ex. there will be some kind of choice school that has applicants and higher grades that somehow gets a new building right in the middle of the pricy new housing development for sale (ie. buy your pricey new home here - look at the great school), and then gets moved there with the former students and their siblings grandfathered in). I think Alderwood and Vista Verde? (were those both choice schools that used to pull from all over Irvine?) may fit that description.</p>
 
I'm not certain, but I think that University Park Elementary has more ESL students because that's where UCI graduate students send their kids.
 
<p>The hub got into Johns Hopkins (a very long time ago), and his high school average (at what was a very good high school at the time) was 68.</p>

<p>You read that right--68. D+. Of course he got over 1500 in the SATs. He made a lot of money at the time betting he could get in. Hopkins was a land grant college, meaning that they let in more Marylanders. He graduated, in the bottom third, and then got his PH D again in the bottom third. </p>

<p>Then he went to law school at the Univ of Miami and finally, success. Law was easy for him--nearly straight As etc, etc. He hated practicing law and went back to science.</p>

<p>The point to this little story is that the system has tightened up and is totally unforgiving for people who don't fit the mold.</p>

<p>Either that, or parents are shoving kids into a mold that they don't need to be shoved into.</p>

<p>The hub actually learned a lot (mostly on his own), but really didn't care what any of his teachers thought, and in fact made his physics teacher mad at him because he really did know more than the teacher, and was too stupid socially to hide the fact. </p>

<p>Although I understand that you don't want your kid to go to an awful or dangerous school, I really don't understand the jockeying to get into the very best school.</p>

<p>I think the Ivies are totally overrated. All you get there is good contacts, not additional learning. Until grad school, when you really do get to associate with some great minds.</p>

<p>My daughter went to the U of Florida at Gainesville, and then got into MIT for her master's in Architecture. She was intimidated at first, was the youngest one in her class, and everybody had been to Harvard or Yale or Ecole Polytechnique Blah, blah. But after about 6 weeks, she asked herself, what did these people learn in their expensive schools that I don't know? The answer was--nothing. She graduated college with no debt. I assume that back then her fellow students owed 10s of thousands of dollars. I think chasing the Ivies is no different from chasing the housing price up.</p>

<p>I've always liked going to school. But in the practice of law, I learned 98 or 99% on the job. Law school is an entry barrier to prevent there being too many lawyers.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, we now live in a Mandarin society, and what counts is credentials, not actual learning. Plato and Socrates wouldn't, literally, be allowed to teach high school. </p>

<p>My grandfather got up only to 3rd grade, but was as well informed, if not more so, than most people today. He read the newpaper, morning and evening (yes, there were two.). He thought about things. We discussed things at each evening meal. That is the truest learning there is.</p>

<p> </p>
 
Thanks to all who responded, this is very helpful to me in searching for a right neighborhood.

While I agree that Ivy leaguers' education level is about the same as tier-2 schools, the prestige of the school is what counts the most, speaking from personal experience: unless you are in top 10% at Loyola, you are not going to get any highly sought-after large law firm jobs (although there are rare exceptions). If you are a Harvard grad at the top 90% of your class, you are still welcome everywhere, since Harvard is a brand in itself. It is unfair, but that's the way it is. The moral of the story is that you don't have to work as hard after you get into the Ivy League college and then Ivy grad school, and I definitely wouldn't want my kid to study 24/7 for the next 20 years of his life and still have dim job prospects.

How does anybody without any connections get into the Ivy League anyway (besides having perfect SAT scores and 4.0 and above GPA? Pls do enlighten me :)
 
<p><em>Either that, or parents are shoving kids into a mold that they don't need to be shoved into.</em></p>

<p>Actually schools and education have been branded and marketed as much as any other consumable item in the USA.</p>

<p>In the end, people are buying a brand image with the belief the the brand will make them more successful, sexier, etc etc etc. Usually with the same success factor as buying the cologne, car or anything else that promises the same results.</p>

<p>This Irvine school thread is just further proof of the brand concept of education.</p>

<p> </p>
 
like anonymous said, alderwood used to be a magnet school where kids had to take an exam/evaluation before acceptance. then it was moved to quail hill 2 years ago. the entire school was picked up, principal, staff and equipment included, and became a neighborhood school. kids who were already going there were given a choice of keep going there or going elsewhere, and i think somewhere like 2/3 chose to stay (hence the traffic jam in/out of quail hill at 8:15am daily). since quail hill is a small neighborhood, they do not have an overpopulation problem. in fact, it continues to be a magnet school for those who do not live in quail hill (don't quote me, but pretty sure non-QHers still take the exam/evaluation).





since it used to be a magnet school, its scores were already higher than most irvine schools. then a funny thing happened...its scores went up after it moved to quail hill. why? because quail hill is heavily asian/persian/indian. the parents are heavily into academics, so the emphasis on education remained and might have become even more focused.





some of you are thinking, "not all asian/persian/indian families care about academics." to that i say, yes i know, but we're talking about overall trends, not individual behavior. some others of you are thinking, "so how high is the percentage of non-caucasians in alderwood?" here's a hint, a class picture i have is ~75% asian/persian/indian.





anyway, alderwood stresses academics and has a history of being in the top tier scoring-wise. it has very little teacher turnover` (majority has been around for many years), and their salaries are higher than the norm in irvine (hey, anyone who consistently beats the benchmark very much deserves it). its whole name is "alderwood basics plus", the basic plus part means it has an extra programs not offered in other irvine schools. it "feeds" into rancho san jaoquin which feeds into university high.





i'll end this with a funny story: before alderwood moved to quail hill, its principal did a dog-and-pony show with quail hill parents to entice us into signing up for the school. well, it didn't start out well, as the principal told us that alderwood was one of the best schools in irvine and anyone would be crazy not to want their kids there. also, if any kid does not fit in academically, then alderwood will give him/her the boot. heh heh, that didn't go too well, parents were throwing it back at him, "well, mr principal, tell us what is so great about your school that we would want to send our kids there?" he was genuinely taken about about our reaction. i imagine he was always approached by parents looking to place kids in the school, he just forgot how to do a sales pitch.





anyway, our kids are in alderwood now, and we're very very happy with it. it also has a broad after school program, thanks to on-site coordinators (not all schools have it on-site) and parental involvement (read $ donations).





good luck, black-acre seeker.
 
<p>I agree with recovering_homeowner - you can attend any high school and still make it to any college. But if you're rich, why not live in a nice neighborhood and have your kids attend a good school? Asides, going to school with the wealthy kids might motivate your kids to climb even higher. But test scores asides, there's other aspects to the high schools too. In Orange Unified, you get to enjoy the scenic hills. In Tustin Unified, 2 of the 3 high schools are either renovated or almost brand new. In Irvine, the schools are GEORGEOUS - with Northwood looking like a private college campus. In Newport-Mesa, the two in NB are well situated close to the coast - same goes for Huntington Beach Union High. So it's not just test scores. Personally, I would send the kids to Huntington Beach, Edison, Newport Harbor, or Corona del Mar for their awesome coastal locations. If not, then Foothill, Beckman, Northwood, Irvine, Woodbridge, or University would be great for the beautiful campuses. It's very similar to choosing a college. With over a dozen really good high schools in the OC, any one would give your kid a great education. Now just decide on which neigborhood your family would enjoy the most.</p>
 
One of the reasons to live in an area with good schools, expecially good high schools, is because as a parent you are doing everything you can to increase your odds of steering your kids into better behaved peer groups. And the nicer neighborhoods arguably have greater parental involvement and better behaved kids.<p>


Statistically, it is easier to get into a UC school if you go to an inner city Santa Ana high school then if you go to CDM, because the UC system reserves spots for the top 4% of graduating seniors from every high school and there is much less competition at Century HS to enter that 4% than Uni.
 
<p>I remember a year or so ago the Register published the results of a drug and alcohol survey for OC high schools, and IIRC Laguna Beach HS had the highest incidence of drug use and binge drinking --- much worse than Santa Ana. An area being wealthy certainly does not shield its schools and kids from the realities of the real world. </p>
 
<em>The moral of the story is that you don't have to work as hard after you get into the Ivy League college and then Ivy grad school . . . .</em>





Blackacre - While I generally agree with your point, but my experience has been that once you get into The Firm, you work just as hard or harder. Those who went to middle tier schools and went to middle tier firms may not make as much money, but in some instances work fewer hours.





I would also note that if all the kids who went to Uni got 5.0 grades and the now-equivalent of a 1600 SAT, Harvard still would not take all the Uni kids. Why? Because each school seeks out a diverse student body, not only in terms of race and socio-economic background, but geographical and experiential background as well. Heck, I would posit that a kid who graduates from a Santa Ana school with the same credentials has a better chance to get into Harvard than the 25th kid from Uni just because he/she is from a different school.
 
<p>black-acre seeker,</p>

<p>The top elementary schools in Irvine as ranked by CA 2007 API scores are Bonita Canyon Elementary (966), Turtle Rock Elementary (958), Canyon View Elementary (954), Alderwood Basics Plus (951), Plaza Vista Elementary (949), and Santiago Hills Elementary (932). If your the kind of parent to doesn't want his kids to be around poor kids, then the number of students who need free or reduced lunches are below 5% at the the above schools except Turtle Rock at 7%. </p>
 
EvaLSeraphim: you are right, I meant to say that you don't have to work hard to find a great job if you went to Ivy League school. I am too well familiar with a partner dumping a box of documents at your desk at 6 p.m., saying: I need this by the time I get back here tomorrow, and then going home to have a nice dinner with his family :))

About going to school with wealthy kids: since we are not wealthy by any definition, I wouldn't want my kid to attend school with too many wealthy kids. I went to school like that myself, and it sucks not to have a new pair of shoes and new clothes for every school day like all your friends do (here is your rationale for having a school uniform :)) and not to get a Mercedes for your 18th birthday.

I have to say though, most wealthy kids (and adults) I encountered in my life were generally well-mannered and pleasant to be around (talk about benefits of a good education :).
 
When I went to high school in Irvine, kids got a BMW, not a Mercedes, for their 16th, not 18th birthday. These days I think the Lexus SUVs are more popular with the high school crowd.
 
<p>blackacre --- I agree with you on rationale for school uniforms. FWIW, after researching the schools in this area to the point of paralysis by analysis, my wife and I decided that the Tustin USD schools serving Irvine (Northpark and West Irvine) were the best fit for us. There were a lot of reasons for that decision that I won't bore you with --- but the fact that TUSD requires uniforms in elementary school is one of them.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.tustin.k12.ca.us/html/newscenter/pressreleases/prarticles/2007-08pr/070808-uniforms.htm">http://www.tustin.k12.ca.us/html/newscenter/pressreleases/prarticles/2007-08pr/070808-uniforms.htm</a></p>

<p> </p>
 
Once you get into an elite college, it's as easy as heck to pass all your classes and graduate. I mean, you have to be extremely smart, bored and unmotivated not to graduate . That's because those elite colleges try to cull from the best, and the students have already self-selected to succeed by even applying there....Plus, the schools want you to graduate so you can be a contributing alumnae and boost their endowment.





But back on track, I don't really look at elementary, junior and high schools and try to figure out which schools will best get my kids into the Ivies. I figure that any school in Irvine is proficient in educating the students, and I'd rather spend my time figuring out what neighborhood I want to live in and giving my family the quality of life and environment that our respective incomes can afford us.





As awgee and hs_teacher mentions, why not try to live in a nice place, be with peers who share your values and hope that those values get absorbed by your kids. The cream will rise to the top anyways, and if your kids are the cream, so will they...and if they're not cream, well, there's always some societal use for that too.





In summary, my personal feeling is that how much your kids get out of the school is probably more dependent on how much you as a parent put into your kid's holistic educational experience...reading at home, limiting video games, rewarding effort over results initially, teaching sharing is caring, and finally and most importantly, relaying to your kids that "to those who have been given much, much will be expected".
 
so what are you all saying in this PTA meeting?



if you can afford to live in a nice neighborhood and have your kids go to a top school, then do it.

on the otherhand, if you cant afford it, dont strain yourself by taking a 100% loan in a nice neighborhood

because any school will do? as long as your kids are out of harms way that is.
 
I think the economic term for it is "marginal utility." If you are wealthy, spending 10K a year on a private high school is well worth the value(it's either that or buying a new 10K watch every year). But if you are working class, spending that much money on school is ludicrous. Economics is the study of scarcity of resources. Most of us is limited in some resource in one way or another - the most efficient plan is to utilize what you have to maximize your return. It's a bad idea to extend yourself to have your kids be in the best school while neglecting other more pressing concerns in your life.
 
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