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Being an ABC (American Born Chinese), I feel like I'm able to see both sides. My mom had the traditional "study now socialize later" mentality and my dad had a more social view on things. From my limited experience, it seems like neither extreme is conducive to a happy life. Moderation is key...





Like IR said-being brilliant and socially inept is not a recipe for lifelong happiness. However, being socially adept and stupid is a disaster waiting to happen.
 
One has to be balanced (duh) ...





A socially well-adept person with some intelligence can schmooze his or her way through the system for quite a while, but ultimately they will just end up over their head, and when you're up there, people are smart enough to see and hear BS.





On the other hand, a 12-year old college grad may be smarter than three of me combined, but lack of socialization will be totally detrimental to your ability to work in society ... because very few professions involve absolutely no interaction with other people.





The ability to read nonverbal cues, the art of speaking and writing to people, etc. are invaluable for "advancement" in the sense of moving up the ranks of wherever you are (which for <em>most </em>people is their goal).





Speaking of "good" schools versus "crummy" schools, I was a product of the "good grades = good school = good job" theory of parenting. I got to the "good job" part of things but not without bumps in the road. However, along the way, I met and became friends with plenty of smart, talented, and compassionate people who did not go to "Excellent undergrad school ranked in the top 20," who did not go to "Excellent professional school ranked in the top 20," and were far better people than I.





Good grades and good schooling <em>may</em> result in landing a good job, but is not a guarantee.





Nor are "not good" grades and "not good" schooling automatically result in a "bad" job.





Sure, I moved to Irvine so my kids could go to one of those "top" schools. I am not no naive as to think that just by going to IUSD that guarantees "good school = good job" and in fact, acknowledge that the main factor in a child's academic success is parental presence. I do think that by placing my kids in this environment, at least the resources are there at the school system for them to take advantage of, and enrich themselves. And a little bit of competition serves to sharpen you ... so long as it is done with integrity.





Speaking of integrity, I want my kids to learn that values - integrity, justice, and compassion to name a few - are just as important lessons to learn as American history or chemistry.
 
<p>Wow --- a lot of passionate opinions on education here. I like the discussion! Just for the record, I could not agree with Fraychielle more. Thanks for writing what I was thinking. I didn't have time to put my thoughts together because I was STRUGGLING with a big project all morning....because my sparkling personality and mediocre education has landed me a job that is way over my head. I just hope my boss does not catch on to me! </p>
 
This is not for augumentative. I was on the road driving to my college campus. I came to the intersection and glanced over to the car next to me. And guess who I saw? The once captain of the football team driving a pizza delivery car. This was during winter 2 years after high school so I don't believe it was his summer job.
 
Well, at least he had a job. My wife, who hires entry level career fresh out of college type of jobs, sees so many UCI grad resumes with absolutely 0 job or intern experience. The CSU grad with the proven ability to hold a job is a much more attractive candidate than the 24 year old UC grad who never worked a day. Even a job delivering pizzas would be a plus.





Summer job? How do you think college students pay the insane rent around here these days? Have to work year round.
 
No one is arguing that the popular high school student who is barely passing his classes is going to do well in life.





There are very bad ways to socialize. I would think watching TV, playing video games, ditching school, strutting around the mall, getting wasted on alcohol--with friends or not--would be bad ways to socialize. Better ways would be to play on a soccer team, be active in church leadership, getting a job, student government, debate team, fundraising, etc.





You can do well academically AND build your ability to interact well with others. I'm not advocating getting C's and being popular, just that single minded focus on grades may not get you the best outcome.
 
<p>I went to a high school awards ceremony in June - was kinda like the departmental awards - so based mainly on academic merit.</p>

<p>All of the winners, however, were so well-rounded. They were all either involved in sports, clubs, news organizations, volunteer organizations, etc. Many were ranked in the state for their sports, in junior symphonies, etc.</p>

<p>I think High School kids are amazing today. They have so much pressure, yet so many are able to balance everything. </p>

<p>And, whether they are shy or not, I think the high achievers know that they need to be involved in clubs/goverment/sports/band/etc. to strengthen their college applications. There are so many clubs and activities today (well, at least compared to when I was in high school) that I think most children are involved in at least something. </p>

<p> </p>
 
<p class="MsoNormal">It's a little disappointing that many of the comments on this list have used income as the final barometer of what's important in education. When it comes to earning power, social skills and academic skills are both minimal prerequisites but having either "in spades" is not a guarantee of success. How about a different yardstick? Like whether students end up self-sufficient and socially connected to their peers and community and whether life-long learning is important to them.</p>

<p class="MsoNormal"></p>

<p class="MsoNormal">Schools do have both academic and socialization responsibilities. The best education provides the student with multiple realistic career (path) options as well as enough personal insight to know how to become successful by maximizing their innate gifts.</p>

<p class="MsoNormal"></p>

<p class="MsoNormal">I suspect that Irvine's high achieving students are disproportionately children that have made the most of both types of opportunities Are there enough of those students? No Are there students who sacrifice well roundedness in favor of higher GPAs. Yes. My guess is that the latter eventually turn out ok by the economic yardstick but not by the social-commitment and lifelong learning yardstick. Irvine Unified is not unique in this regard but they probably do better than average -- witness the annual results of the <a href="http://www.irvinecompany.com/aboutus/News.asp?type=news&archive=&release=1031&category=17&cid=">head to head business competition </a>that the Irvine Company runs for top High Schoolers every year.


</p>

<p class="MsoNormal">


</p>

<p class="MsoNormal">IUSD's success is ironic because even among the most charming, most brilliant, most socially committed students few will be able to afford a house in Irvine as young parents regardless of whether they started out with an IUSD education or a TUSD education.</p>
 
<p>The social skills that are important later on in the business world are not necessarily the ones that kids learn in high school friendships and cliques - things such as negotiation, understanding another persons point of view, managing people through positive feedback, getting used to accepting criticism, etc, are extremely important in the workforce and can easily be taught in conjunction with academic topics (i.e., math, science, etc, etc.) </p>

<p>However, I do think that social activities are important simply because they make kids like school - liking school is one of the most important goals in my book - the kids who want to be there will do the best.</p>
 
<p>Let's talk school districts. There are five school districts that I have worked in - Garden Grove, Huntington Beach, Newport-Mesa, Irvine, & Tustin. And IMO, the students make the school what is it, not vice versa. Schools in Garden Grove, Costa Mesa, and Tustin aren't that great because the student population is more ethnic and social-economically disadvantaged. Whereas schools in Huntington, Newport, and Irvine have great reputations because the kids are usually middle to upper class. We tend to be an "average" of who our peers are [of course there are many exceptions]. Now you might ask yourself, if it's just a class issue, then why do Irvine schools perform better than their counterparts in Newport or Huntington? I think the answer lies in cultural differences - Irvine kids are simply more academically motivated by their parents than NB or HB. So... how well your kids do in school has a lot to do how YOU handle them. I wouldn't pay an arm and a leg just to buy a house in the right school boundaries though. Just put them in a Tustin school and hire a tutor. Hint, hint.. I'm a tutor... <a href="http://www.davidle.net/tutor">www.davidle.net/tutor</a> . I mainly work in Newport, Huntington, or Irvine because the parents there are more inclined to invest more into their child's education. I'm not sure about higher education, but I think it's a fact that the "average" Irvine High grad is more prepared to succeed in the real world than the "average" Costa Mesa High grad [ and once again, of course there are many exceptions].</p>
 
<p>For what it is worth, the 2007 API scores came out last week, and Irvine scores improved on a whole, although the HS scores slipped a little bit. Interestingly, the TUSD elementary schools serving Irvine slipped a little while their IUSD peer schools all seemed to increase a little. However, the TUSD schools all scored well above average --- 900+. I agree with many others out here who contend that scores only tell half the story --- but they are something to consider. This just tells me that any school serving Irvine is performing well above both county and state benchmarks. Link below to the state website, where you can search on 2007 growth by school, district or county. </p>

<p><a href="http://www.cde.ca.gov/ta/ac/ap/apireports.asp">http://www.cde.ca.gov/ta/ac/ap/apireports.asp</a></p>

<p>And for those interested (and it seems many are) once you access the school or district you can link to the demographic breakout with all sorts of tidbits to fuel the debate, such as scores by race, % students on free or reduced lunch and so forth. </p>
 
<a href="http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/high-schools/2007/11/29/gold-medal-schools.html">Interesting.</a> Only one Irvine school (Uni) showed up on the US News list, and was only no. 76. A school in Cypress (which I believe is a public school) was ranked no. 4. Even Whitney in Cerritos came in at no. 12.
 
<p>Actually, those 2 schools (if I remember) were magnet schools. They may be public, but you need to have good grades and pass an qualification exam to enroll in them. Uni actually has 2 tracks. They are College prep, and Honors/Advance Placement. UHS will assign you into either one of those tracks base on your grades from junior high and your proficiency test results (you take them in 8th grade). Anyways, the college prep courses are slightly more challenging than the normal high school classes in Orange County. But the 100-120 or so kids who are in the Honors/AP curriculum bash their heads against each other for the next 4 years.</p>

<p>Link to Whitney High's website: <a href="http://www.whitneyhs.org/students/community.jsp">http://www.whitneyhs.org/students/community.jsp</a></p>
 
Out of all the districts that I have been in - Orange, Tustin, Irvine, Newport-Mesa, Huntington Beach, and Garden Grove - I have to admit that Irvine has the nicest looking schools. Even schools, in affluent areas, such as Villa Park High, Foothill High, Corona del Mar High, and Newport Harbor High are not as physically appealing as Northwood, University, Irvine, or Woodbridge High. Personally, although I find the people living in Irvine to be more or less dull; I have to admit that Irvine is a beautiful city.
 
<p>A few comments...</p>

<p>1. This whole discussion focus on the idea that there is one best school and method of teaching. That is like arguing, "what is the best tool in this toolbox", and arguing whether a wrench or a hammer is the best tool. The best tool depends on the job. The best school for any given student depends on what that student's natural abilities and interests and personality is. There is no 1 best school for everyone.</p>

<p>2. You have to realize in the Asian discussion that in Asian culture, you are supposed to spoil your kids (ex. buy them a nice car, nice house) and then they take care of your retirement. Which is why the old school parents (ex. working 80 hours a week at a menial job) push their kids to excell in school (ex. become a doctor or pharamacist to support me well in my old age). </p>

<p>3. I don't think kids are more spoiled now a days and have a greater sense of entitlement due to increased wealth and lack of financial hardship. My non-PC view is that they are spoiled simply because there are fewer of them per family. For instance, when checking out at the grocery store, a parent with 1 or 2 kids usually does all the work putting the food on the conveyer belt and loading the grocery cart. Whereas when I go though the grocery line with whole bunch of kids, I'm busy supervising the little ones keeping them from running offf and the older ones have to pitch in to make it work (ie. the older ones load the conveyer belt and load the grocery cart and push it to the car). If you go back to the pre-birth control days when families had more kids per family, everyone had to pitch in to make it work simply out of sheer necessity. Which taught eveyrone (except perhaps the youngest), the value of hard work and pitching in. Working all the time was normal.</p>
 
I could've swore Whitney was Jr. High + High school, like 7-12? Had a neighbor who went there.





I went to a public high school with lots of barbed wires. I could blab about all the bad things that happened there, but I don't think I have the stomach for it right now.





People want to move here, because when they drive by an Irvine school, they don't see coils of barbed wire.
 
I agree. Most public schools in Orange County do not look very appealing at all - except for the Irvine schools.



Also, the schools in Huntington Beach are going through major renovations to improve their buildings.



But in my opinion, schools are strongly affected by the racial composition of their students. Some may claim it's a socio-economic issue, but if you were just to take make a informal assessment of a school, it's pretty obvious that the more the school population consists of certain groups, the more likely its student population will tend to be lower income and lower achievers.



Irvine basically has a student population that has higher incomes and therefore higher achievements. It has a very small population of other groups.
 
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