[IHB] Does the Irvine school system add value to local houses?

[irvinehomeowner]

As for beach properties, are you seriously trying to compare the Irvine premium to a beach house located on a pristine bluff with a 180 degree view? That's gotta be the kool aid talking IHO, two completely different products, apples and oranges.

Oh... and I did want to address this personally.

For me... if there was an Irvine home with the same size as the view beach home... and they were the same price (which I doubt, a "pristine bluff" is way more expensive than most Irvine homes)... I would actually take the Irvine home. At this point in time, it's what works better for me... and I'm sure for many others because they have made that choice. If you were to ask me this question earlier... or later... that may change.

That just illustrates the point that what you value and what other people value... is not the same... nor is one more "fundamental" than the other. Some like views near a beach, some like good schools in a central location with a diverse variety of shopping/dining (which Aliso and Tustin Ranch lack).

 

[kalbi]

Links for 2010 data for Aliso and Uni.
http://anhs-capousd-ca.schoolloop.com/file/1268488189572/1283092021388/5249845946440183856.pdfhttp://www.iusd.org/UHS/School_Information/documents/SchoolProfile2010_2011.pdf

A cursory glance reveals that Uni's stats exceeds Aliso on every level. 

IndieDev- i fail to see how the two schools are comparable??

 

[IndieDev]

"Close-to-the-beach" for a home that is a few miles away from the beach is certainly marketing. Some people may pay money for that, I wouldn't.

What isn't marketing is a true 180 degree, unmolested, panoramic ocean view, or a home located on a bluff right next to the ocean. Those are truly items in short supply, which in turn drives up their prices (for people who are seeking that).

Irvine's pluses (schools, safety, location) aren't exclusive to it. Places like Aliso Viejo, and Tustin Ranch, have the same safety, in some cases better schools, and great locations. What they don't have is a powerhouse company like TIC to spread marketing joojoo all over Chindians looking for a place to live.

Fact: In 2008 (as recorded by IUSD), 36% of University High graduates went to community college straight after graduation. 0% were accepted to an Ivy League.

Aliso Niguel High School (Saddleback Unified) sent 3 students to the Ivy League.

I wonder why TIC won't advertise this in their brochures.  ???

IndieDev - please verify your facts before posting inaccurate numbers.  There is NO WAY that 0% were accepted to an Ivy League.  Link showing actual numbers http://www.iusd.org/UHS/Awards_Accolades/uhsprofile.pdffor 2008.  As you can see, in 2008, Uni High had more than 3 students accepted to an Ivy League School.

Those are 2009 attendees (class of 2007 attends college in 2008, and class of 2008 attends 2009 college year. So yeah, maybe in 2009 they had some get accepted but not in 2008.

 

[IndieDev]

As for beach properties, are you seriously trying to compare the Irvine premium to a beach house located on a pristine bluff with a 180 degree view? That's gotta be the kool aid talking IHO, two completely different products, apples and oranges.

Oh... and I did want to address this personally.

For me... if there was an Irvine home with the same size as the view beach home... and they were the same price (which I doubt, a "pristine bluff" is way more expensive than most Irvine homes)... I would actually take the Irvine home. At this point in time, it's what works better for me... and I'm sure for many others because they have made that choice. If you were to ask me this question earlier... or later... that may change.

That just illustrates the point that what you value and what other people value... is not the same... nor is one more "fundamental" than the other. Some like views near a beach, some like good schools in a central location with a diverse variety of shopping/dining (which Aliso and Tustin Ranch lack).

That all personal opinion, so yes, maybe for you, Irvine works better than an ocean side home, but that's not really a valid opinion because you've clearly stated that your price range doesn't even encompass Ocean side homes in OC.

That's like someone saying, "I prefer to drive Hyundais over Ferraris," and the type of income they have is in the $100,000 range. You weren't even in the market anyway.

 

[NoSoup4U]

... but not in 2008.

Everybody here realizes that there are 8 ivy league schools right?  Brown University, Columbia University, Cornell University, Dartmouth College, Harvard University, Princeton University, the University of Pennsylvania, and Yale University.  Hard to imagine that not one UHS student got accepted in any given year.

 

[IndieDev]

Links for 2010 data for Aliso and Uni.
http://anhs-capousd-ca.schoolloop.com/file/1268488189572/1283092021388/5249845946440183856.pdfhttp://www.iusd.org/UHS/School_Information/documents/SchoolProfile2010_2011.pdf

A cursory glance reveals that Uni's stats exceeds Aliso on every level. 

IndieDev- i fail to see how the two schools are comparable??

I don't think anyone is disputing Uni High's matriculation results. But as I said before the majority of Uni High students go to UC Irvine, UCSD, CSU Fullerton, and CAL SLO , the stats are there for anyone to read. If Uni High is so great, why do the majority of students go mid-ranked, somewhat lower tier colleges, after graduation?

That doesn't seem like a very elite group if that's what you're paying for with a $1,000,000 house.

 

[LAtoOC]

... but not in 2008.

Everybody here realizes that there are 8 ivy league schools right?  Brown University, Columbia University, Cornell University, Dartmouth College, Harvard University, Princeton University, the University of Pennsylvania, and Yale University.  Hard to imagine that not one UHS student got accepted in any given year.

I think you can safely exclude Cornell and Brown from that list.

 

[NoSoup4U]

I think you can safely exclude Cornell and Brown from that list.

Yeah, Cornell is probably the red-headed step child.  But it's amazing how many people can't even name all ivy league schools.  I wonder if they teach that at Uni?

 

[kalbi]

I am addressing your blanket generalization that "Irvine's pluses (schools, safety, location) aren't exclusive to it. Places like Aliso Viejo, and Tustin Ranch, have the same safety, in some cases better schools."

Show me facts and statistics to show that Aliso Viejo and Tustin Ranch have better schools.  You repeatedly state that you conducted your due diligence and that you "have the facts."  Show them.

 

[NoSoup4U]

the majority of Uni High students go to UC Irvine

But these UCI students can still get accepted to Harvard...Harvard court apartments in Irvine.  Seriously, why do we name our apartment complexes and streets after these "good" schools?  Is there a town in Massachusetts with a UC Irvine Avenue?  Its like this is a slap in the face of these UCI students.  Let's name all the streets and apartments near UCI after all the schools that you could not get into.

 

[IndieDev]

I am addressing your blanket generalization that "Irvine's pluses (schools, safety, location) aren't exclusive to it. Places like Aliso Viejo, and Tustin Ranch, have the same safety, in some cases better schools."

Show me facts and statistics to show that Aliso Viejo and Tustin Ranch have better schools.  You repeatedly state that you conducted your due diligence and that you "have the facts."  Show them.

You don't think Don Juan Avila Elementary in Aliso Viejo is better than Culverdale Elementary in Westpark? Because it has a higher API, and better matriculation scores which you seem to like. Now you want to compare the price of a home in Westpark to your average home zoned to Don Juan Avila in AV? I'll bet you the price difference is a lot more than you'd expect.

Also, let's talk fact. I'll use your facts that you posted. Uni High had an enrollment of 2,514 in 2010. Yes in 2010, they had some Ivy League acceptance. But what is that percentage as a part of the student body?

Harvard 1
Yale 2
Princeton 5
Brown 1
Columbia 2
UPenn 3
Cornell 14
Dartmouth 2
----
30

30/2514 = 1.2%

According to the 2010 statistics, you have a 1% chance to get into an Ivy League school, otherwise it's  UCSD, UCI, CSU Fullerton, or CAL POLY SLO.

Is that worth $1,000,000?

 

[villiagepeople]

I am addressing your blanket generalization that "Irvine's pluses (schools, safety, location) aren't exclusive to it. Places like Aliso Viejo, and Tustin Ranch, have the same safety, in some cases better schools."

Show me facts and statistics to show that Aliso Viejo and Tustin Ranch have better schools.  You repeatedly state that you conducted your due diligence and that you "have the facts."  Show them.

Okay, I'll use your facts that you posted. Uni High had an enrollment of 2,514 in 2010. Yes in 2010, they had some Ivy League acceptance. But what is that percentage as a part of the student body?

Harvard 1
Yale 2
Princeton 5
Brown 1
Columbia 2
UPenn 3
Cornell 14
Dartmouth 2
----
30

30/2514 = 1.2%

According to the 2010 statistics, you have a 1% chance to get into an Ivy League school, otherwise it's  UCSD, UCI, CSU Fullerton, or CAL POLY SLO.

Is that worth $1,000,000?

man you really are that stupid...

Grade 9 627
Grade 10 677
Grade 11 622
Grade 12 588
Total          2,514

 

[IndieDev]

man you really are that stupid...

Grade 9 627
Grade 10 677
Grade 11 622
Grade 12 588
Total          2,514

That makes it even worse.

If we use 588 as our baseline, then 399/588 = 68% of Uni High Students go to UCSD, UCI, Fullerton, or CAL POLY SLO after graduation. Damn, 70% of the students pretty much go to mid-tier or lower tier schools.

That's definitely not worth $1,000,000.

 

[NoSoup4U]

man you really are that stupid...

Grade 9 627
Grade 10 677
Grade 11 622
Grade 12 588
Total          2,514

That makes it even worse.

If we use 588 as our baseline, then 399/588 = 68% of Uni High Students go to UCSD, UCI, Fullerton, or CAL POLY SLO after graduation. Damn, 70% of the students pretty much go to mid-tier or lower tier schools.

That's definitely not worth $1,000,000.

Are those the number of students who got accepted to those schools or who actually attended those schools?

 

[25inirvine]

Just a side note:

the two ivy leaguers that I remember from my high school (Northwood) both were accepted because of sports.  Yes, they had good grades, but not those elite grades but it was more so one could play on the football team and another could play on the softball team.  If I remember correctly, they were not offered scholarships, but they chose to go their anyways.  Both got very homesick, and one came back home after one year and went somewhere else.

I wish we had that list of where everyone got accepted, but we just got one of where everyone decided to go.  By far the majority was this (the order may not be exact but close)

UCI, Cal State Fullerton, UCSB, UCSD,  SD State, UCLA, Cal Poly SLO, CAL, USC

this is almost 10 years ago, but hard to remember exactly.  I just remember the only ones in the double digits were UCI and Cal State Fullerton. I think UCI had the most around 15 then CSUF had 13 I think UCSB and UCSD were the next highest with like 8 or 9.  Then SD State, Cal Poly SLO, and UCLA all had like 7 or so with CAL and USC having 5 or 6.

Then the rest were just random of 1 here, 2 there, 3 or 4 there, etc.  Like I believe went 3 or 4 went to like Biola/Pepperdine/Chapman/LMU.  then the rest were kind of just random like one went to Purdue, a few at Stanford, stuff like that.

But as for IVY leagues , no one really had an interest in those (I'm sure there were some that did, but I didn't know them).  It was mainly about trying to get into Cal or UCLA, or if u didn't have all AP classes and couldn't get into those, then you were aiming for UCSB or UCSD.  Also, depended on major as some people was picking Cal Poly SLO over any of those if they were going into architecture or engineering.

Then there were some others that had family ties to certain private schools and for them it was either go to Stanford or USC or bust

 

[IndieDev]

man you really are that stupid...

Grade 9 627
Grade 10 677
Grade 11 622
Grade 12 588
Total          2,514

That makes it even worse.

If we use 588 as our baseline, then 399/588 = 68% of Uni High Students go to UCSD, UCI, Fullerton, or CAL POLY SLO after graduation. Damn, 70% of the students pretty much go to mid-tier or lower tier schools.

That's definitely not worth $1,000,000.

Are those the number of students who got accepted to those schools or who actually attended those schools?

It's always "reported acceptances", so it's not 100% accurate. Someone could say they got accepted to Harvard and end up going to community college because of money issues, etc.

But I think it's safe to say that Uni High isn't some magical feeder school for top tier universities, which was my point from the very beginning.

Would you pay $1,000,000 for a home knowing that your child had a 70% chance to go to UCI, UCSD, CSU Fullerton, or CAL POLY SLO?

Do people really believe that you can't get into those schools coming from Aliso Niguel High School, Beckman, or any other high school with a 800+ API?

So explain to me what the premium means for Uni High zoned houses? It's marketing, just as I've been saying ALL along.

 

[IndieDev]

The reality is none of these public schools on the west coast are feeders to the Ivys.  Unless you go to Harvard-Westlake or some other private school with extensive Ivy connections, at most - Ivys will only take a certain # of kids per school.  Why?  Because they want geographic diversity.  I only took a quick glance at the list but 1 harvard acceptance, 2 yale, 6 stanford and 5 princeton is pretty darn good.  Stanford only admitted 2300 kids for its last class.  For SIX to come from ONE high school is pretty impressive.

And yes I know stanford isn't an ivy but it think its a top 3 school in the country....

My nieces high school had a sub 600 API and sent 2 kids to Stanford in 2000 (she was one of them). The median home value in the area right now is around $180,000.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

Hehe... fuzzy math.

Someone shows Indie his error and he flips it to the other side.

30/588 = 5.1%

Looks pretty high to me for a single high school.

So what are the numbers for the others schools that Indie has claimed to do better?

And one other thing... IUSD has quality instruction from K all the way to 12 for all of their schools... that's been said on the IHB before... other cities might have better elementary but not all, or better middle or high schools but not all... Irvine makes the top percentile of EVERY list consistently each year. That is significant to many people... especially those not interested in a 180 ocean view.

Here's a comment from IHB from a teacher (anecdotal so take it for what it's worth):

Usually, states tweak standards, issue a standard textbook, then it?s up to the individual teachers to cobble something together themselves to meet the standards.  Different teachers, completely different classroom materials all cobbled together based on whatever the teacher can afford to pay out of their own pocket (no reimbursement).  It?s like the preindustrial revolution when each craftsman made up their own.  I?ve done it and seen others do it too.  Irvine though - take elementary science for example.  When I volunteer, I see the premade labs and materials.  I see the standard hands on equipment (ex. live animals and such) that the teachers share and rotate.  And there is a curriculum specialist to evaluate the results each year and improve it so it gets better every year instead of random changes  without measurement.  I was working BTW in the most highly rated high school in the state (public) and at an exclusive private school (>$10,000 tuition with kids who had mansions and 5 horses and 3 christmas trees and layouts in homemaking magazines of the landscape artists christmas tree), and it can?t touch what I see when I volunteer in an Irvine classroom.  The teachers are better, the curriculum is better, and the students are better.

Now I'm not saying that the IUSD is the best school district on the planet (as I'm having issues with one of my teachers)... but I do think that it's better than many with statistics and evidence to prove it. And I guess I don't really care about Ivy League admission... so it's good enough for me.

 

[woodburyowner]

... but not in 2008.

Everybody here realizes that there are 8 ivy league schools right?  Brown University, Columbia University, Cornell University, Dartmouth College, Harvard University, Princeton University, the University of Pennsylvania, and Yale University.  Hard to imagine that not one UHS student got accepted in any given year.

My thought exactly.  I haven't seen IndieDev provide any evidence of this other than him saying it's a fact.  I went to ANHS and the school was terrible.  Out of my class of 650, we had about 15 go to UCLA and 10 to Cal and 1 Ivy League (Brown).  I just remember meeting a TON of people from Irvine HSs during college and when I look at the statistics, I can see why.  I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that Irvine HSs send a larger % of students to mid/top universities than surrounding area schools.  The real only argument is if it's worth the premium...

 

[IndieDev]

I think I'm taking crazy pills.

So basically, you guys think a $1,000,000 home is worth it for a school that sends 70% of its graduating class to schools that are considered mid to lower tier universities.

The TIC marketing machine is strong. I love it.