[IHB] Does the Irvine school system add value to local houses?

[traceimage]

This is my schpiel about Irvine schools. They have a reputation for being excellent. Are they really that excellent, or better than schools in surrounding districts? I don't know. But who cares? It's all about the reputation. I don't care all that much about the quality of the schools per se. I care about education, of course, but I know my child will do fine in any good/decent school. (In fact, I think the hyper competitiveness of Irvine schools might even be a bad thing.) But do I want prospective buyers to believe that Irvine schools are the be-all, end-all of success in life? Hell yeah.

So the fact that IHB even asked this question is bizarre to me. Think about who is buying in Irvine: people who care about education. So OF COURSE the schools add value to Irvine homes...at least perceived value. But in the words of Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men, "Is there any other kind?"

 

[IndieDev]

This is my schpiel about Irvine schools. They have a reputation for being excellent. Are they really that excellent, or better than schools in surrounding districts? I don't know. But who cares? It's all about the reputation. I don't care all that much about the quality of the schools per se. I care about education, of course, but I know my child will do fine in any good/decent school. (In fact, I think the hyper competitiveness of Irvine schools might even be a bad thing.) But do I want prospective buyers to believe that Irvine schools are the be-all, end-all of success in life? Hell yeah.

So the fact that IHB even asked this question is bizarre to me. Think about who is buying in Irvine: people who care about education. So OF COURSE the schools add value to Irvine homes...at least perceived value. But in the words of Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men, "Is there any other kind?"

Bingo.

I still think it's stupid to overpay for marketing though.

 

[usctrojancpa]

IndieDev does have a point.  I mean, when TIC is so desperate to sell homes over at Laguna Altura by plastering the fact that the homes are a part of Uni High.  I'm still a believer that it's the parents that have a bigger influence on the academic success of their childern than the actual schools (so long as they aren't horrible). 

 

[traceimage]

This is my schpiel about Irvine schools. They have a reputation for being excellent. Are they really that excellent, or better than schools in surrounding districts? I don't know. But who cares? It's all about the reputation. I don't care all that much about the quality of the schools per se. I care about education, of course, but I know my child will do fine in any good/decent school. (In fact, I think the hyper competitiveness of Irvine schools might even be a bad thing.) But do I want prospective buyers to believe that Irvine schools are the be-all, end-all of success in life? Hell yeah.

So the fact that IHB even asked this question is bizarre to me. Think about who is buying in Irvine: people who care about education. So OF COURSE the schools add value to Irvine homes...at least perceived value. But in the words of Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men, "Is there any other kind?"

Bingo.

I still think it's stupid to overpay for marketing though.

Do you really think the schools rep comes from marketing, though? I'm not that familiar with TIC's marketing, but even if their brochures say "excellent Irvine schools" or whatever, there still has to be an underlying belief in the community that the schools are good, through word-of-mouth or something (like how the schools in Arcadia are admired and respected in Taiwan).

 

[Irvinecommuter]

This is my schpiel about Irvine schools. They have a reputation for being excellent. Are they really that excellent, or better than schools in surrounding districts? I don't know. But who cares? It's all about the reputation. I don't care all that much about the quality of the schools per se. I care about education, of course, but I know my child will do fine in any good/decent school. (In fact, I think the hyper competitiveness of Irvine schools might even be a bad thing.) But do I want prospective buyers to believe that Irvine schools are the be-all, end-all of success in life? Hell yeah.

So the fact that IHB even asked this question is bizarre to me. Think about who is buying in Irvine: people who care about education. So OF COURSE the schools add value to Irvine homes...at least perceived value. But in the words of Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men, "Is there any other kind?"

Bingo.

I still think it's stupid to overpay for marketing though.

Do you really think the schools rep comes from marketing, though? I'm not that familiar with TIC's marketing, but even if their brochures say "excellent Irvine schools" or whatever, there still has to be an underlying belief in the community that the schools are good, through word-of-mouth or something (like how the schools in Arcadia are admired and respected in Taiwan).

Exactly.  School districts do not sell a house on their own but can be an important factor in the decision making process.  There is no doubt that there is a financial/economic different between a house in Tustin USD vs. the same house in Irvine USD.  Not only does it factor into whether your own kids' education, it also affects the resale value of the home.

 

[IndieDev]

Of course it's marketing. There are Blue Ribbon schools all over OC, and you don't have to pay $500,000+ to afford a decent starter home in the district.

The schools are great in Irvine, yes, but when you're trying to plaster those facts on brochures for $1,000,000+ homes, it's all marketing baby.

I mean just look at some of the post in here:

- Living in Irvine makes you closer to your family. (what?!)
- People in Irvine pay higher taxes and make more money so the schools are going to be better. (Huh?)

I respect TIC and Bren's marketing machine, but I think it's stupid people are paying the prices and mello roos to support it. I sometimes wonder if people actually do research on how many furlough days Irvine schools had in the last school year, and how many IUSD graduates actually go to nationally ranked Top 50 universities compared to surrounding schools districts (because I did the research and know those facts myself).

 

[usctrojancpa]

Of course it's marketing. There are Blue Ribbon schools all over OC, and you don't have to pay $500,000+ to afford a decent starter home in the district.

The schools are great in Irvine, yes, but when you're trying to plaster those facts on brochures for $1,000,000+ homes, it's all marketing baby.

I mean just look at some of the post in here:

- Living in Irvine makes you closer to your family. (what?!)
- People in Irvine pay higher taxes and make more money so the schools are going to be better. (Huh?)

I respect TIC and Bren's marketing machine, but I think it's stupid people are paying the prices and mello roos to support it. I sometimes wonder if people actually do research on how many furlough days Irvine schools had in the last school year, and how many IUSD graduates actually go to nationally ranked Top 50 universities compared to surrounding schools districts (because I did the research and know those facts myself).

I wouldn't be suprised if you told me that schools in Yorba Linda, Tustin/Tustin Ranch, Yorba Linda, etc probably send about the same students to Top 50 universities as Irvine schools do on average.  Are Irvine schools good?  Of course they are.  For myself, buying in Irvine has to do with being centrally located to where I generate my income, living in a safe city, and because I know it well since I've lived here for 10+ years.  Unlike any other city in Orange County, Irvine has something they don't....a great marketing machine like TIC. 

 

[villiagepeople]

Of course it's marketing. There are Blue Ribbon schools all over OC, and you don't have to pay $500,000+ to afford a decent starter home in the district.

The schools are great in Irvine, yes, but when you're trying to plaster those facts on brochures for $1,000,000+ homes, it's all marketing baby.

I mean just look at some of the post in here:

- Living in Irvine makes you closer to your family. (what?!)
- People in Irvine pay higher taxes and make more money so the schools are going to be better. (Huh?)

I respect TIC and Bren's marketing machine, but I think it's stupid people are paying the prices and mello roos to support it. I sometimes wonder if people actually do research on how many furlough days Irvine schools had in the last school year, and how many IUSD graduates actually go to nationally ranked Top 50 universities compared to surrounding schools districts (because I did the research and know those facts myself).

here's a rhetorical, rhetorical cause i don't want to see your ignorant rants... but just to prove a point.. you live in irvine.. and no matter when you bought you paid a premium to surrounding cites... right?  (the answer is "yes... i did pay a premium over surrounding cities...")

 

[traceimage]

I guess I disagree that marketing plays that big of a role. The schools are a marketing bullet point *because* of the pre-existing reputation of the schools. The reputation is already out there, and TIC is capitalizing on it. Education-minded buyers already think Irvine is where it's at, and the brochures just confirm what they already believe.

But I agree that a lot of the houses in Irvine are overpriced for what you get. And mello roos? I scoff at the thought! Only older houses for me!

 

[IndieDev]

Most of the IUSD kids (even if they're not great academically) are quick thinkers which may not necessarily translate into admission into a top 25 school, but a useful trait to have in the real world. 

Anecdotal whisperings aside, it may be a useful trait, but you know what else is useful? Getting a world class education at an elite university. A long time ago, the top elite universities realized that standardized test scores, and GPA aren't what make a great student. Of course none of this matters to people overpaying in Irvine, they don't even know that IUSD doesn't exceed at placing students into top universities. Sure a lot of them go to Cal State, or even UCSD, but is that worth over paying for a home in hundreds of thousands of dollars?

I'm fairly agnostic when it comes to making financial decisions, so I'd say that's a solid no.

 

[IndieDev]

Is that reason enough to pay Mello Roos or $500k to live in a two-bedroom?  IMO - no, but we all know there are other factors besides education that plays into a buyer's decision.

Like marketing.

 

[woodburyowner]

Can someone provide a link that shows Irvine high schools have the same % of graduates go to top 25 universities as high schools outside Irvine?  I would have thought that Irvine high schools sent a higher %.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

I agree with Trace, the quality schools were in place prior to TIC's big marketing push.

And Irvine isn't the only city where the school system is a big part of the value equation. Regardless of whether or not you feel that it's "worth" it... there are many cities that have premium prices based on schools, safety and location.

As I mentioned to before... some people don't find the value in paying $1mil for a house in a beach city... that's not even on the beach. Different strokes for different folks... doesn't mean one is more "fundamental" than the other. When I see the term "close-to-beach"... isn't that just marketing too?

 

[IndieDev]

"Close-to-the-beach" for a home that is a few miles away from the beach is certainly marketing. Some people may pay money for that, I wouldn't.

What isn't marketing is a true 180 degree, unmolested, panoramic ocean view, or a home located on a bluff right next to the ocean. Those are truly items in short supply, which in turn drives up their prices (for people who are seeking that).

Irvine's pluses (schools, safety, location) aren't exclusive to it. Places like Aliso Viejo, and Tustin Ranch, have the same safety, in some cases better schools, and great locations. What they don't have is a powerhouse company like TIC to spread marketing joojoo all over Chindians looking for a place to live.

Fact: In 2008 (as recorded by IUSD), 36% of University High graduates went to community college straight after graduation. 0% were accepted to an Ivy League.

Aliso Niguel High School (Saddleback Unified) sent 3 students to the Ivy League.

I wonder why TIC won't advertise this in their brochures.  ???

 

[irvinehomeowner]

Aliso Viejo is not as central as Irvine is. If I remember correctly, AV is serviced by the Capo school district which had huge problems recently. And they have their own Kool-Aid too... ever check the prices at their biggest new development, Glenwood?

Tustin Ranch is basically Irvine North, and while not as high as Irvine... still high enough to illustrate the notion of good schools affecting value.

Many beach cities have homes with a 180 degree view... but some are priced higher than others... why? Apply that same concept to Irvine... while the pluses are not exclusive, the combination of them gives them a higher premium.

 

[IndieDev]

Aliso Viejo is not as central as Irvine is. If I remember correctly, AV is serviced by the Capo school district which had huge problems recently. And they have their own Kool-Aid too... ever check the prices at their biggest new development, Glenwood?

Tustin Ranch is basically Irvine North, and while not as high as Irvine... still high enough to illustrate the notion of good schools affecting value.

Many beach cities have homes with a 180 degree view... but some are priced higher than others... why? Apply that same concept to Irvine... while the pluses are not exclusive, the combination of them gives them a higher premium.

None of those points are material to my main discussion point, the fact that you can buy homes in AV, or TR attached to stellar schools, with the same safety, and location pluses, but without the $200,000 premium.

Also, AV is served by Saddleback and Capo districts, I'm sure you knew that. And while Capo may be having budgetary problems, so is IUSD. In 2010 they had the most furlough days in the history of the district. I'm sure you knew that too. Do you think the Chindian FCB blowing $1,000,000 on their Quail Hill home thought that their kids would be doing 4 day school weeks so many times? That's the thing with public schools, they aren't immune to budgetary problems at the state or local level.

As for beach properties, are you seriously trying to compare the Irvine premium to a beach house located on a pristine bluff with a 180 degree view? That's gotta be the kool aid talking IHO, two completely different products, apples and oranges.

 

[NoSoup4U]

http://www.iusd.org/uhs/documents/Classof2011SeniorSurvey.pdf

This link shows where the class of 2011 from Uni got accepted.  I am a firm believer that the number of students accepted to Berkeley is the best overall indicator for success.  Even if you are are ivy league bound, you will still apply to Cal since that is the best bang for your buck school for a CA resident.  It is a good 'safety' school for these types of kids.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

@Indy:

The IUSD has some advantages that other public school districts don't, namely businesses and individuals that contribute to funding when there is shortfall.

As for your apples to oranges... I was not comparing Irvine to your fabled Newport home... what I was doing was comparing Irvine to other cities with similar traits (which is what you did) and illustrating the differences as to why the premiums are higher... and I furthered it by making a comparison between different beach homes with the same 180 views that also have different pricing. Does that explain it better?

 

[so_scared]

A long time ago, the top elite universities realized that standardized test scores, and GPA aren't what make a great student.

really? This is really interesting given the average standardized scores and gpa of the average entering student is so much higher than the stats for the entering class of "non-elite" schools. For a non-deterministic factor, the correlations to entry seem on the surface very high. While they might not be the only factors, they sure do seem to matter for entry on average.

Can you point to the study that shows this. This would be a very interesting read. TIA.

 

[kalbi]

"Close-to-the-beach" for a home that is a few miles away from the beach is certainly marketing. Some people may pay money for that, I wouldn't.

What isn't marketing is a true 180 degree, unmolested, panoramic ocean view, or a home located on a bluff right next to the ocean. Those are truly items in short supply, which in turn drives up their prices (for people who are seeking that).

Irvine's pluses (schools, safety, location) aren't exclusive to it. Places like Aliso Viejo, and Tustin Ranch, have the same safety, in some cases better schools, and great locations. What they don't have is a powerhouse company like TIC to spread marketing joojoo all over Chindians looking for a place to live.

Fact: In 2008 (as recorded by IUSD), 36% of University High graduates went to community college straight after graduation. 0% were accepted to an Ivy League.

Aliso Niguel High School (Saddleback Unified) sent 3 students to the Ivy League.

I wonder why TIC won't advertise this in their brochures.  ???

IndieDev - please verify your facts before posting inaccurate numbers.  There is NO WAY that 0% were accepted to an Ivy League.  Link showing actual numbers http://www.iusd.org/UHS/Awards_Accolades/uhsprofile.pdffor 2008.  As you can see, in 2008, Uni High had more than 3 students accepted to an Ivy League School.