Hidden Canyon in Irvine

[eyephone]

I bet the model designers have almost unlimited budget for upgrades and decor. 

Sometimes I'll be looking through these pictures and I'll see something I liked when decorating my home (like the cool chandelier in the circular foyer).  Then I'll remember why i didn't buy it, because the chandelier was $3,500. 

Between the landscaping, beam ceilings, furniture, high end knick knacks, etc., I bet these models have around $600k in upgrades.  Heck some of these yards probably cost $200k+ for front and back landscaping.

I agree. I want to say all of the pics that were posted have upgrades.

 

[Grayston]

I bet the model designers have almost unlimited budget for upgrades and decor. 

Sometimes I'll be looking through these pictures and I'll see something I liked when decorating my home (like the cool chandelier in the circular foyer).  Then I'll remember why i didn't buy it, because the chandelier was $3,500. 

Between the landscaping, beam ceilings, furniture, high end knick knacks, etc., I bet these models have around $600k in upgrades.  Heck some of these yards probably cost $200k+ for front and back landscaping.

I agree, most of the models there have upgrades $600k plus or more. Btw, most of the chandeliers in the models were from Restoration Hardware. The one you like at foyer of Santa Monica is "Odean" for $6,195. Also one of the sales ladies at Marbella told me the landscaping for the Santa monica model was over $450k.

 

[monekoko]

I bet the model designers have almost unlimited budget for upgrades and decor. 

Sometimes I'll be looking through these pictures and I'll see something I liked when decorating my home (like the cool chandelier in the circular foyer).  Then I'll remember why i didn't buy it, because the chandelier was $3,500. 

Between the landscaping, beam ceilings, furniture, high end knick knacks, etc., I bet these models have around $600k in upgrades.  Heck some of these yards probably cost $200k+ for front and back landscaping.

I agree, most of the models there have upgrades $600k plus or more. Btw, most of the chandeliers in the models were from Restoration Hardware. The one you like at foyer of Santa Monica is "Odean" for $6,195. Also one of the sales ladies at Marbella told me the landscaping for the Santa monica model was over $450k.

I'd like to make my back/front yard as natural as possible - weed & dirt.

 

[orange_curtain]

Based on these photos the inside of these homes look much smaller than the outside. Look at the master bedroom of the Santa Monica or the family rooms of all of these photos. Also, no living rooms included for the price point? These homes are very traditional on the outside and modern on the inside. Strange?

Well, certainly base your opinion on the photos. Don't actually go and look at the models before forming an opinion as to how big or not big they are and/or look.

Very traditional on outside vs modern on the inside? My biggest criticism of Toll, in fact, is that they are very traditional on the inside. They need to do away with formal living rooms and formal dining rooms in most of their offerings. Certainly, have some for those buyers who need/want them, but having a formal living room or a formal dining room that I can't easily repurpose for something else is a huge turn off for me. I think that for most families today, formal rooms hold little value.

If you read my previous post you would have realized that I did go visit the models and yes I will say it again. Considering the size of the homes the master bedrooms and secondary bedrooms are not very large. Also, what I said was in my opinion these homes not all TB homes are traditional on the outside and modern on the inside. To me that looks strange. Also, yes a lot of new floor plans have no formal living room but you would think for this square footage you would have a living room or music room. Instead TB wants to charge extra for some more room and call it a Conservatory. For a $2.5 million dollar plus house I would think I would get a living room/music room/conservatory as a standard option.

 

[irviniteeee]

Yes, they are really vocal about their purchases. That's because the majority of them are actually Toll Brothers sales people pretending they are buyers so that they can create hype for their homes. We all appreciate the inside scoop but don't believe most of these people are buyers. I just wonder why Toll Brothers feels like they need to spend so much time on this site to create the hype.

I highly doubt it thou.  The sales team of Marbella, for example, were all old ladies, 65+.  They might know how to surf & email the internet, but don't think they are savvy enough to quote and reply?

I'm not saying there are Toll ppl on this forum, but if there are, it probably won't be the doings of the on-site sales office.  Aren't those people the last to know anything?  Everything comes from the regional offices.  All the paperwork on buyers, phase pricing, release dates, etc, etc, comes from and goes through there.  Not hard to get a HS/college intern to post on internet forums as part of a job description.

Honestly, you never know these days. Just like the other week there was a salesperson from Richmond American posting on here acting like they were a future buyer. Later that week, they posted a thread advertising the tract and their homes without even changing their username. They blew their cover.

 

[Oncdoc]

Yes, they are really vocal about their purchases. That's because the majority of them are actually Toll Brothers sales people pretending they are buyers so that they can create hype for their homes. We all appreciate the inside scoop but don't believe most of these people are buyers. I just wonder why Toll Brothers feels like they need to spend so much time on this site to create the hype.

I highly doubt it thou.  The sales team of Marbella, for example, were all old ladies, 65+.  They might know how to surf & email the internet, but don't think they are savvy enough to quote and reply?

I'm not saying there are Toll ppl on this forum, but if there are, it probably won't be the doings of the on-site sales office.  Aren't those people the last to know anything?  Everything comes from the regional offices.  All the paperwork on buyers, phase pricing, release dates, etc, etc, comes from and goes through there.  Not hard to get a HS/college intern to post on internet forums as part of a job description.

Honestly, you never know these days. Just like the other week there was a salesperson from Richmond American posting on here acting like they were a future buyer. Later that week, they posted a thread advertising the tract and their homes without even changing their username. They blew their cover.

I can also smell salespersons from OH here trying to downplay HC as well!!

 

[eyephone]

Yes, they are really vocal about their purchases. That's because the majority of them are actually Toll Brothers sales people pretending they are buyers so that they can create hype for their homes. We all appreciate the inside scoop but don't believe most of these people are buyers. I just wonder why Toll Brothers feels like they need to spend so much time on this site to create the hype.

I highly doubt it thou.  The sales team of Marbella, for example, were all old ladies, 65+.  They might know how to surf & email the internet, but don't think they are savvy enough to quote and reply?

I'm not saying there are Toll ppl on this forum, but if there are, it probably won't be the doings of the on-site sales office.  Aren't those people the last to know anything?  Everything comes from the regional offices.  All the paperwork on buyers, phase pricing, release dates, etc, etc, comes from and goes through there.  Not hard to get a HS/college intern to post on internet forums as part of a job description.

Honestly, you never know these days. Just like the other week there was a salesperson from Richmond American posting on here acting like they were a future buyer. Later that week, they posted a thread advertising the tract and their homes without even changing their username. They blew their cover.

Yup.

 

[fudgemuffin]

I'm new to the blog, having learned about it from another HC buyer. I'll add my 2-cents worth to the mix. My wife & I bought one of the Marbella homes.

First, having met all of the sales staff for both the Marbella and Capri homes, I seriously doubt any of them are lurking on this website trying to stir up interest in the HC homes. They hardly need to - from what I've seen they are bombarded with telephone calls, people who are somehow able to get past the guard at the gate, people who show up at closing time...you name it. We've talked to most of them about all kinds of things, their kids, their grand kids, their homes, health issues, whatever. I just don't see any of them going home at the end of the day and getting online and trying to drum up even more interest, when already they have more buyers than homes being released. The premium view lots go within minutes of being released, and the others have gotten snapped up soon afterwards. So, to me, the suggestion that Toll Brothers agents are trolling this forum seems pretty absurd.

My somewhat limited impression of the demographics: most buyers appear to be in their late 30's to late 50's, which the majority around 45 yrs old. Surprisingly young IMHO, given the cost of the homes. I don't know how TB is determining who-gets-what-lot, but I think the premium lots are going to all-cash buyers with no contingencies and more than enough money in the bank to cover the cost of the home plus options and landscaping. There are certainly a fair amount of foreign buyers. I don't see any spec buying going on, although I suspect some foreign buyers are buying to park cash here in the US. TB makes you sign an agreement that you won't sell or rent out your home for 1 year and 1 day after it closes, which will probably discourage some home flipping.

As far as buyers being excited - we're probably in that camp and I don't think it's a stretch to see why. The pictures others have posted speak for themselves. There is a lot of wow factor when you walk in the front door, especially the homes with the stacking doors that open up to the back yard. The models we've looked at so far are beautifully decorated and the floor plans are really well thought out, especially in the kitchen/family room area (which is where we spend most of our time). Add the proximity to Spectrum, schools, freeways, the new Whole Foods going in - I think the location is fantastic. The only downside is road noise from the 133 and Lake Forest, but that will depend upon where your lot is located. We can hear road noise from our lot, but not so much that it is a deal killer.

Price-wise, they are high but given the size of the home and location, they were a lot less than what we thought they'd be. Compared to older homes in Turtle Ridge, we think they are a bargain. Evidently everyone else thinks so to, given that every lot released so far is sold or being sold. We feel very fortunate to have gotten in as early as we have, before the mad rush that almost certainly will occur once the models open to the public on April 11th.

Disclaimer: I'm not TB employee or r/e agent (...nor did I use one in purchasing our home...) and have no financial interest in this project other than (hopefully) seeing our home go up in value as more money pours into Irvine, as it appears to be doing.

 

[Arman]

I bet the model designers have almost unlimited budget for upgrades and decor. 

Sometimes I'll be looking through these pictures and I'll see something I liked when decorating my home (like the cool chandelier in the circular foyer).  Then I'll remember why i didn't buy it, because the chandelier was $3,500. 

Between the landscaping, beam ceilings, furniture, high end knick knacks, etc., I bet these models have around $600k in upgrades.  Heck some of these yards probably cost $200k+ for front and back landscaping.

I agree, most of the models there have upgrades $600k plus or more. Btw, most of the chandeliers in the models were from Restoration Hardware. The one you like at foyer of Santa Monica is "Odean" for $6,195. Also one of the sales ladies at Marbella told me the landscaping for the Santa monica model was over $450k.

450K sounds on point. I haven't seen these particular models yet, but I have no doubt that 450K is a realistic number for model landscaping.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

TB makes you sign an agreement that you won't sell or rent out your home for 1 year and 1 day after it closes, which will probably discourage some home flipping.

I've always wondered what type of recourse a builder has here.

Once they sell you the home, what can they really do? Maybe void your 1-year warranty?

I've seen so many new home developments that have that same "agreement", yet homes have gone up for rent or sale as soon as 3 months later.

Not sure why TB sales would be pumping up this thread as it does seem there are legitimate buyers her. They are more vocal than most, but I guess if you can spend $2.5m on a tract home, you don't mind letting people know.

But I'm with orange_curtain, not having more living/utility spaces downstairs and smallish bedrooms/closets upstairs at this price point is bleh. No 3CWGs and even if the lots are bigger... proximity wise to your left/right neighbors isn't ideal.

But, they are selling, so I am in the minority position.

 

[monekoko]

TB makes you sign an agreement that you won't sell or rent out your home for 1 year and 1 day after it closes, which will probably discourage some home flipping.

I've always wondered what type of recourse a builder has here.

Once they sell you the home, what can they really do? Maybe void your 1-year warranty?

I've seen so many new home developments that have that same "agreement", yet homes have gone up for rent or sale as soon as 3 months later.

I asked exactly same question to a sales lady at Marbella.
She said they would put extra strong enforcement on primary residency for 1yr & 1day rule for HC community to keep up the value of the community and to filter out investors. Any foreign buyers without the proof of current US residency will be discouraged even if they are cash buyers, not to mention that they have plenty of qualified local buyers competing on the table.
They had some sour experience in Yorba Linda that lots of homes just be left empty.

 

[sgip]

In 20+ years of builder work, I've yet to see anyone have the re-sale / rental issue enforced. By the time the lawyers are done with it, there's no value remaining.

Anyone can say after closing the purchase on a Monday: "My company is relocating back to XYZ and I have to sell my home", or "I intended for my mother to live in the home with us, but she passed away before moving. It's too traumatic now for me to live in the home" - and 1,000 other perfectly legal reasons why they won't move in, they have to rent, or want to put it up for sale.

Not much any builder can do once the property becomes yours and you abide by the HOA rules on landscaping/maintenance.

JW

 

[qwerty]

The builders put that in as a deterrent, nothing else. They know they will never try to enforce it. Like sgip said, too many reasons and the cost of enforcing is not worth it. The probably open themselves up to damages if they did try to enforce it

 

[monekoko]

In 20+ years of builder work, I've yet to see anyone have the re-sale / rental issue enforced. By the time the lawyers are done with it, there's no value remaining.

Anyone can say after closing the purchase on a Monday: "My company is relocating back to XYZ and I have to sell my home", or "I intended for my mother to live in the home with us, but she passed away before moving. It's too traumatic now for me to live in the home" - and 1,000 other perfectly legal reasons why they won't move in, they have to rent, or want to put it up for sale.

Not much any builder can do once the property becomes yours and you abide by the HOA rules on landscaping/maintenance.

JW

That makes total sense.

 

[rkp]

Yes, they are really vocal about their purchases. That's because the majority of them are actually Toll Brothers sales people pretending they are buyers so that they can create hype for their homes. We all appreciate the inside scoop but don't believe most of these people are buyers. I just wonder why Toll Brothers feels like they need to spend so much time on this site to create the hype.

It's rather amazing that you are able to say *majority* without any confirmation or proof.  Great way to make a bunch of new members feel welcome to this site. 

Lambert Ranch set up a private forum for buyers so they didn't need to come to TI and talk about options and purchase decisions.  HC has not so this thread has become a meeting spot for buyers. 

No one is forcing you to read the HC thread and these HC buyers aren't going across TI constantly bragging about HC.  I don't get what all the haterade is about.  I definitely would love one of these homes and have some envy but I am not going to hate on people discussing their options and adding to transparency that TI thrives on.

 

[orange_curtain]

First, you're naive.  Shall I repeat?

If you had $3M, would you buy/invest in the Irvine demographic at this price point or put your money in NB or another coastal (not coastal canyon) community?  Keep in mind Shady Canyon is distinguishable -- truly custom, NB access, golf course/country club etc.  Second, trace the posts and the frequency of comments, not to mention the duration of occupancy of certain members on the site.  You can criticize the critic, but it doesn't change the truth.  Plus, I'm confident most people agree me - whether or not they blog.

With respect to your point, Lambert Ranch had a great idea. Home companies should set up their own private site for buyers.  Perhaps it would reduce agent input on what should be a real consumer/community blog.

To expand on my issue, there have been numerous homes built in Irvine at all price points, yet I have never seen so many agents on one site. Why doesn't everyone buying in Shady Canyon, QH or Turtle Ridge blog on here?  Toll Brothers has a reputation for thinking they are overly clever at marketing and "creating demand."  No problem with it.  They are entitled to market and did this effectively duping a large number of buyers in Yorba Linda.  Vista Del Verde (Del Mar/Saratoga) anyone?  Anyone? They might be smarter than the average person like you rkp, but I feel badly for the people they dupe.

The problem is that this site is full of Toll Brother insiders wanting free press, which is fine should they be transparent.  Rather, the key issue is that they are not transparent, creating ever new dummy accounts and contributing as though they are buyers.  It is possible that there are real buyers on the site.  To them, I extend my congratulations.  However, my opinion, should I be permitted, is that it is unlikely that the purported buyers are, in fact, buyers.  Rare that any FCBs have the time (considering time zones) or that Domestic Cash Buyers in this price range have the time to log-in every day, including Easter Sunday from, oh, say from about 9 am to 6 pm.  TB is infesting this site.  That is my primary issue.

I do not think that you, rkp, are at TB party and you're welcome to your opinion. However, the moment anything is said critical about the homes, one of the "new" Talk Irvine people come in with all the inside information that they claim they found out from a "friend" who is a buyer or, better yet, they themselves happen to be a buyer.  TB is taking away all that this site is intentioned for.  Based on your comments, I would think you would be on my side of this issue.  If you want to call me out on being honest and can take it.

Are the people reading this blog telling me that they don't think it is strange that that you have a young professional, I suspect, male buyer talking about the chandelier in the model.  Really?  I would be stunned if my husband started taking about Restoration Hardware chandeliers!

Regardless of all of the above (and the rkp comments), are we all to believe that these homes are so under valued that anyone who doesn't move from Newport Beach, Shady, QH, Turtle Rock or Turtle Ridge must be a total idiot?  TB should phase increase by at least $1M, don't you think?  They have amazing "views" of something...and oh yes....everyone buying is young...so young that they might be under 21, and yes all Domestic Cash Buyers fro NB who want live in Irvine and happen to have made partner at major professional firms.  Oh yes...and I must be living in the dump because I have so many bad things to say that I can't afford one....right?

In closing...I do think the homes are nice. My apologizes to the grandmas in the sales office, Laniakea, Happios, Fudgemuffin, Grayston, oc dad anyone that I might have missed!

 

[qwerty]

yeah ive been suspicious all along of all of of these HC buyers with post counts of under 10 all of a sudden started providing tons of info/insight on the process as new buyers.

 

[irvine99]

yeah ive been suspicious all along of all of of these HC buyers with post counts of under 10 all of a sudden started providing tons of info/insight on the process as new buyers.

I have less than 10 posts. Do you think I work for Toll? Maybe, I only became interested in TI because I am buying in Hidden Canyon, and would like to discuss the community with other buyers.

 

[rkp]

Orange_curtain - You never say "IMO" or anything to allude that its your opinion and not a fact.  Hence my response to you.  Of course you are entitled to your opinion.  Calling me naive and average just adds to what I think is wrong with your approach.  You might be right that some members are really builder employees as there is nothing to stop the undercover tactic outside of the moderator checking IP addresses.  However, saying majority without proof is wrong and unnecessarily demands that every new member be under scrutiny.  For casual TI readers, they might assume you are right and I hope my response at least lets them see that you are not a moderator, you have no IP address info, and everything you are offering is merely unsubstantiated opinions. 

 

[J Hsu]

I am new and have not posted before.  I am interested in these houses and I am on the waiting list.  Who knows what that means anymore, though. I will echo what qwerty and orange curtain are saying.  The postings of a select few are odd.  We're not stupid people and it the information flow is strange.  It begs the question and is disappointing.  I'm not accusing anyone of anything, but I think orange curtain speaks for more people than s/he realizes.