Harvard Admits 4.6% of Applicants; Other Ivy League Schools Get Tougher, Too

[fortune11]

Bones,

How would you weigh students coming out of a new high school such as Portola High since it doesn't have a lot of history?  I think it won't graduate its first students until 2019.

Academic stats are not part of my school?s interview process. Students are free to volunteer their test scores, GPA, class rank but most don?t (most will talk about their AP class load though). So the interview is really a blank slate and offers them a chance to tell me their story without me having any preconceived notions about who they are as a student.  This is where if the kid is engaging, passionate, enthusiastic, interesting, etc - they can really shine.

Yes, grades are not a part of the picture at all for interviews.  I have done some of these too and judging by who got accepted and who did not, even sports participation is no longer the plus it once was since so many of the (esp  non Asians) are using it as a springboard now with all these private leagues.  So unless you are NCAA caliber player being actively courted , becoming even harder to distinguish.  In general they need something unique , diverse (I don't mean here in race terms) - If you worked in Zambia with poor orphans, meh .  But if you actually created a unique water filtration system that fed a whole Zambian village and made it scalable, yes that will still get you in ...

I think sports is still a plus. If you can maintain high scores/grades while committing time to play varsity level sports, it shows you have your shit together. Obviously sports in this equation can easily be replaced with something else at a high level.

yes a plus, but the competition is so crazy that even grades + basic sports don't create that wow factor anymore

but seeing how dedicated these kids are - I barely did a quarter of what they are doing now,  it sure was a lot easier back then.  now with free flow of information in social media age, any competitive edge quickly gets publicized and commoditized within a few years.  I don't envy what these kids are going through now just to get that coveted spot .

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Bones,

How would you weigh students coming out of a new high school such as Portola High since it doesn't have a lot of history?  I think it won't graduate its first students until 2019.

Academic stats are not part of my school?s interview process. Students are free to volunteer their test scores, GPA, class rank but most don?t (most will talk about their AP class load though). So the interview is really a blank slate and offers them a chance to tell me their story without me having any preconceived notions about who they are as a student.  This is where if the kid is engaging, passionate, enthusiastic, interesting, etc - they can really shine.

Yes, grades are not a part of the picture at all for interviews.  I have done some of these too and judging by who got accepted and who did not, even sports participation is no longer the plus it once was since so many of the (esp  non Asians) are using it as a springboard now with all these private leagues.  So unless you are NCAA caliber player being actively courted , becoming even harder to distinguish.  In general they need something unique , diverse (I don't mean here in race terms) - If you worked in Zambia with poor orphans, meh .  But if you actually created a unique water filtration system that fed a whole Zambian village and made it scalable, yes that will still get you in ...

I think sports is still a plus. If you can maintain high scores/grades while committing time to play varsity level sports, it shows you have your shit together. Obviously sports in this equation can easily be replaced with something else at a high level.

In this global world...being smart and able to do academics well are not enough.  Being innovative, passionate, and being able to think outside of the box are so much more important.  In 20 years, computers/robots will be doing most of the work...even those relating to academics. 

It's what sets US colleges/universities apart from those in the rest of world (obviously there are great schools outside of the US too).   

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Bones,

How would you weigh students coming out of a new high school such as Portola High since it doesn't have a lot of history?  I think it won't graduate its first students until 2019.

Academic stats are not part of my school?s interview process. Students are free to volunteer their test scores, GPA, class rank but most don?t (most will talk about their AP class load though). So the interview is really a blank slate and offers them a chance to tell me their story without me having any preconceived notions about who they are as a student.  This is where if the kid is engaging, passionate, enthusiastic, interesting, etc - they can really shine.

Yes, grades are not a part of the picture at all for interviews.  I have done some of these too and judging by who got accepted and who did not, even sports participation is no longer the plus it once was since so many of the (esp  non Asians) are using it as a springboard now with all these private leagues.  So unless you are NCAA caliber player being actively courted , becoming even harder to distinguish.  In general they need something unique , diverse (I don't mean here in race terms) - If you worked in Zambia with poor orphans, meh .  But if you actually created a unique water filtration system that fed a whole Zambian village and made it scalable, yes that will still get you in ...

I think sports is still a plus. If you can maintain high scores/grades while committing time to play varsity level sports, it shows you have your shit together. Obviously sports in this equation can easily be replaced with something else at a high level.

yes a plus, but the competition is so crazy that even grades + basic sports don't create that wow factor anymore

but seeing how dedicated these kids are - I barely did a quarter of what they are doing now,  it sure was a lot easier back then.  now with free flow of information in social media age, any competitive edge quickly gets publicized and commoditized within a few years.  I don't envy what these kids are going through now just to get that coveted spot .

Agreed.  I tell my daughter to focus on developing good habits like working hard and persevering through adversity/hardship.  If she works her hardest and is dedicated, that is all I can ask for.  If she makes it to Ivy great...if not, I'm okay with it too. 

 

[bones]

Bones,

How would you weigh students coming out of a new high school such as Portola High since it doesn't have a lot of history?  I think it won't graduate its first students until 2019.

Academic stats are not part of my school?s interview process. Students are free to volunteer their test scores, GPA, class rank but most don?t (most will talk about their AP class load though). So the interview is really a blank slate and offers them a chance to tell me their story without me having any preconceived notions about who they are as a student.  This is where if the kid is engaging, passionate, enthusiastic, interesting, etc - they can really shine.

Yes, grades are not a part of the picture at all for interviews.  I have done some of these too and judging by who got accepted and who did not, even sports participation is no longer the plus it once was since so many of the (esp  non Asians) are using it as a springboard now with all these private leagues.  So unless you are NCAA caliber player being actively courted , becoming even harder to distinguish.  In general they need something unique , diverse (I don't mean here in race terms) - If you worked in Zambia with poor orphans, meh .  But if you actually created a unique water filtration system that fed a whole Zambian village and made it scalable, yes that will still get you in ...

I think sports is still a plus. If you can maintain high scores/grades while committing time to play varsity level sports, it shows you have your shit together. Obviously sports in this equation can easily be replaced with something else at a high level.

In this global world...being smart and able to do academics well are not enough.  Being innovative, passionate, and being able to think outside of the box are so much more important.  In 20 years, computers/robots will be doing most of the work...even those relating to academics. 

It's what sets US colleges/universities apart from those in the rest of world (obviously there are great schools outside of the US too).   

Yes - I think we can all agree. Being smart and doing well in academics is just the basic requirement.

 

[bones]

Bones,

How would you weigh students coming out of a new high school such as Portola High since it doesn't have a lot of history?  I think it won't graduate its first students until 2019.

Academic stats are not part of my school?s interview process. Students are free to volunteer their test scores, GPA, class rank but most don?t (most will talk about their AP class load though). So the interview is really a blank slate and offers them a chance to tell me their story without me having any preconceived notions about who they are as a student.  This is where if the kid is engaging, passionate, enthusiastic, interesting, etc - they can really shine.

Yes, grades are not a part of the picture at all for interviews.  I have done some of these too and judging by who got accepted and who did not, even sports participation is no longer the plus it once was since so many of the (esp  non Asians) are using it as a springboard now with all these private leagues.  So unless you are NCAA caliber player being actively courted , becoming even harder to distinguish.  In general they need something unique , diverse (I don't mean here in race terms) - If you worked in Zambia with poor orphans, meh .  But if you actually created a unique water filtration system that fed a whole Zambian village and made it scalable, yes that will still get you in ...

I think sports is still a plus. If you can maintain high scores/grades while committing time to play varsity level sports, it shows you have your shit together. Obviously sports in this equation can easily be replaced with something else at a high level.

yes a plus, but the competition is so crazy that even grades + basic sports don't create that wow factor anymore

but seeing how dedicated these kids are - I barely did a quarter of what they are doing now,  it sure was a lot easier back then.  now with free flow of information in social media age, any competitive edge quickly gets publicized and commoditized within a few years.  I don't envy what these kids are going through now just to get that coveted spot .

For the most part I agree. But also know that not every admit has a huge wow factor. Some are just hardworking, smart and passionate about their one or two things. And those one or two things doesn?t have to be ?oh I started an org that brings water to 3rd world villages?.

 

[eyephone]

Get over the hype.

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

Unfortunately children of privilege upbringing lack the real human experience. The lack of depth came through during the interview. The rich helping the poor Africa trip glamping trip is gimmicky but still being passed around at Dum Sum eateries. Peers gossips pressured parents to enroll children to music lessons, academic boot camp and other college prep courses. Volunteer works are done for resume purposes and rarely from the heart. College interviewers find similarities among the students and with the same attributes.

Top colleges are noticing OCHSA recently and opted to admit students having a lesser academic performance with a richer human experience.

 

[eyephone]

Don?t they have a quota on Asians admissions? (I can?t keep up and the other thing is I really don?t care)

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Don?t they have a quota on Asians admissions? (I can?t keep up and the other thing is I really don?t care)

Ivys?  No...but they do like taking kids from a variety of backgrounds.  As Bones stated above, 95% of Asian kids have the same resume. 

 

[irvinehomeowner]

In our generation and those before, focus was on good education and a stable job in a good industry.

Today... education is still important but I think I would rather my kids find their own way... instead of working for someone else and making them more money, to start their own thing, so they own it and success or failure is based more directly on their own efforts.

I was hoping to build something on my own so that I have something to give to my kids but life doesn't always obey your wishes. Instead, maybe I can help them build something of their own that one day they can pass on to their kids.

Maybe a real estate brokerage?

 

[Irvinecommuter]

In our generation and those before, focus was on good education and a stable job in a good industry.

Today... education is still important but I think I would rather my kids find their own way... instead of working for someone else and making them more money, to start their own thing, so they own it and success or failure is based more directly on their own efforts.

I was hoping to build something on my own so that I have something to give to my kids but life doesn't always obey your wishes. Instead, maybe I can help them build something of their own that one day they can pass on to their kids.

Maybe a real estate brokerage?

In ATLANTA!

Definitely agree on this.  I think identifying what your kid is good at and enjoys are good first steps.  Some kids are good with their hands while others like academics.  Don't try to fit a square peg into a round hole.

 

[eyephone]

Don?t they have a quota on Asians admissions? (I can?t keep up and the other thing is I really don?t care)

Ivys?  No...but they do like taking kids from a variety of backgrounds.  As Bones stated above, 95% of Asian kids have the same resume.

?Suit accusing Harvard of capping Asian-American admissions could be tried this summer?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cn...lege-lawsuit-asian-americans-trial/index.html

?In recent months, the Trump administration has taken up that argument.

The Department of Justice (DOJ) recently dug up a two-year-old complaint against Harvard University that alleges the school has quotas on how many Asian Americans it accepts. It has opened an investigation into Harvard?s admissions practices, which could create a chilling effect on other schools with affirmative action programs. The DOJ could eventually file a lawsuit against the school.?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vo...mative-action-asian-discrimination-admissions

 

[fortune11]

Bones,

How would you weigh students coming out of a new high school such as Portola High since it doesn't have a lot of history?  I think it won't graduate its first students until 2019.

Academic stats are not part of my school?s interview process. Students are free to volunteer their test scores, GPA, class rank but most don?t (most will talk about their AP class load though). So the interview is really a blank slate and offers them a chance to tell me their story without me having any preconceived notions about who they are as a student.  This is where if the kid is engaging, passionate, enthusiastic, interesting, etc - they can really shine.

Yes, grades are not a part of the picture at all for interviews.  I have done some of these too and judging by who got accepted and who did not, even sports participation is no longer the plus it once was since so many of the (esp  non Asians) are using it as a springboard now with all these private leagues.  So unless you are NCAA caliber player being actively courted , becoming even harder to distinguish.  In general they need something unique , diverse (I don't mean here in race terms) - If you worked in Zambia with poor orphans, meh .  But if you actually created a unique water filtration system that fed a whole Zambian village and made it scalable, yes that will still get you in ...

I think sports is still a plus. If you can maintain high scores/grades while committing time to play varsity level sports, it shows you have your shit together. Obviously sports in this equation can easily be replaced with something else at a high level.

yes a plus, but the competition is so crazy that even grades + basic sports don't create that wow factor anymore

but seeing how dedicated these kids are - I barely did a quarter of what they are doing now,  it sure was a lot easier back then.  now with free flow of information in social media age, any competitive edge quickly gets publicized and commoditized within a few years.  I don't envy what these kids are going through now just to get that coveted spot .

For the most part I agree. But also know that not every admit has a huge wow factor. Some are just hardworking, smart and passionate about their one or two things. And those one or two things doesn?t have to be ?oh I started an org that brings water to 3rd world villages?.

there is always exceptions and the sample set you and I are working from is small just based on own experiences (my sample size is probably smaller as I have been doing this off and on and not regularly) .  but if we are answering the question of  - what gets you in - exceptional entrepreneurship at any level (NGO, tech , what have you) is a unique qualifier in recent years .

To be passionate about one or two things had a lot different meaning to it 20 years ago than now -- now if you are passionate about something, you are expected to see it all the way through to an almost pro like level and show multiple years of tangible progress. 

Now there will always be exceptions - the good hardworking kid who plays by the rules and does everything to enrich his experience in a rounded fashion, and who gets in - and I would rather see these kids get in, but the numbers game simply seems stacked against them .  I do wish universities release more data on this subject. 

 

[momopi]

As automation and AI further reduce job opportunities in future, candidates for both college admissions and employment will be asked to provide not only academic excellence, but also "specs" and "life story" including experiences such as volunteer activities, study abroad (or missionary activities abroad), internships, music/dance/arts/game/sports, etc. before advancing to in-person interviews where charisma and comeliness will also have major impact.

In ancient times the disciples of Confucius practiced the six arts of archery, calligraphy, equestrianism, literature, math, music, and rites.  These became the curriculum for the ancient Imperial Examinations.  In theory anyone who is not an outcast can study, take the exam and advance his position.  However in reality who can realistically afford to send their kids to study all these things?

When college admissions (and employers) start looking at "life stories", you'll need well to do parents who can afford to build you that life story, or if you're from a poor background and can somehow spin a tearjerker life story about how you overcome being born with dirt spoon in your mouth and is determined to succeed.


"Thinking outside the box" is a clich?.  Many people think big but only a very small % of them have the actual talent, drive, and opportunity to make it happen.  Instead of always trying to teach kids to think/dream big, try asking them to make a difference with just one person at a time.  Be a friend, a nurse, a mentor, a sponsor -- someone who make a difference by extending your hand to that one person in their darkest hour, instead of daydreaming in the sun about saving the world but never actually getting off the bench.

 

[eyephone]

Don?t they have a quota on Asians admissions? (I can?t keep up and the other thing is I really don?t care)

Ivys?  No...but they do like taking kids from a variety of backgrounds.  As Bones stated above, 95% of Asian kids have the same resume.

?Suit accusing Harvard of capping Asian-American admissions could be tried this summer?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cn...lege-lawsuit-asian-americans-trial/index.html

?In recent months, the Trump administration has taken up that argument.

The Department of Justice (DOJ) recently dug up a two-year-old complaint against Harvard University that alleges the school has quotas on how many Asian Americans it accepts. It has opened an investigation into Harvard?s admissions practices, which could create a chilling effect on other schools with affirmative action programs. The DOJ could eventually file a lawsuit against the school.?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vo...mative-action-asian-discrimination-admissions

Until the dust is settled and their is a conclusion. Maybe apply somewhere else.

 

[Happiness]

Asians are terrible at standing out from the crowd or being innovative because it goes against everything they have been socialized to believe. Why are PRC military officers and college students required to study and memorize the thoughts of the current supreme leader Xi instead of taking risks and being innovative?  Because in the Asian mind, risk taking and innovation are dangerous. Yes, the Chinese invented paper, gunpowder, compass a long time ago, but recently its all about playing it safe.

 

[bones]

Fortune - yes i think the definition of passionate as it relates to college admissions is pretty obvious.

And yes - exceptional entrepreneurship in any field coupled with solid academics is also pretty much a guarantee.

The admits I?ve seen (and from what?s my college friends have seen) are more often than not the ones I described in the posts  above and not necessarily the Africa going, app starting, venture capital raising superstar.

 

[eyephone]

Save your admission fee and apply somewhere else.

Money talks..

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Save your admission fee and apply somewhere else.

Money talks..

Yup:

SAN FRANCISCO (CBS.MW) -- As many people suspect, the path to the Ivy League is most successfully traveled through exclusive private schools.

Of the 100 U.S. high schools sending the highest percentage of students to Harvard, Yale and Princeton, 94 of them are private schools -- with tuition ranging from $7,800 to $29,650 a year, according to a study by Worth magazine.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/top-100-feeder-high-schools-to-the-ivy-league

 

[eyephone]

?Trump administration backs Asian-American students in Harvard admissions lawsuit

The Trump administration threw its weight Friday behind a student group that says Harvard University discriminates against Asian-Americans in its admissions process, urging a federal judge Friday not to keep years' worth of admissions records under wraps.

The move by the Justice Department forecasts the emerging fault lines in what could serve as the first major affirmative action case of the Trump administration.

The fight surrounding the secrecy of the Harvard's competitive admissions process stems from a 2014 lawsuit brought by Students for Fair Admissions, a nonprofit organization that argues race-conscious admissions policies are unconstitutional. The group includes over a dozen students who claim they were rejected from Harvard because the it engages in "racial balancing" by capping the number of Asian-Americans it admits each year.?

Source:https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cn...olitics/harvard-admissions-lawsuit/index.html