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zubs said:
Have you ever seen yourself spit when you talk?
I mean using common sense a bandanna would catch that spit if you had it on.

I've accidentally spit on people plenty of times while speaking...LOL
If you know you are a danger to other people, you should take the precautions. :)
On a serious note, simply cover your mouth while talking or look down. In order to fix this little fluke, you don't have to wear the mask all the time.
Would you agree, my solution would be more appropriate?
 
If you didn't have a mask, looking down while covering your mouth would be appropriate.  But truth be told, wearing a mask is a sign of respect for other people so I don't infect them with my asymptomatic virus. 


Just covering your mouth and looking down is not as effective and is kind of a dick move when others are wearing a mask to protect you.
 
zubs said:
If you didn't have a mask, looking down while covering your mouth would be appropriate.  But truth be told, wearing a mask is a sign of respect for other people so I don't infect them with my asymptomatic virus. 


Just covering your mouth and looking down is not as effective and is kind of a dick move when others are wearing a mask to protect you.
I respect your religion, but I worship other Gods. I hope you will respect my beliefs.
 
adventurous said:
zubs said:
If you didn't have a mask, looking down while covering your mouth would be appropriate.  But truth be told, wearing a mask is a sign of respect for other people so I don't infect them with my asymptomatic virus. 


Just covering your mouth and looking down is not as effective and is kind of a dick move when others are wearing a mask to protect you.
I respect your religion, but I worship other Gods. I hope you will respect my beliefs.

You can have any religion you want, you still don?t get to drive drunk. 
 
nosuchreality said:
You can have any religion you want, you still don?t get to drive drunk.
Drunk driving has a scientifically accurate, rock-solid statistics proving it's dangerous. Mind sharing the same quality of stats for wearing a bandana mask?
 
adventurous said:
nosuchreality said:
You can have any religion you want, you still don?t get to drive drunk.
Drunk driving has a scientifically accurate, rock-solid statistics proving it's dangerous. Mind sharing the same quality of stats for wearing a bandana mask?

10,497.

That?s 2016 drunk driving deaths.

Covid, 127,000+. Ytd.

Enough said.

 
zubs said:
You are right!  The fucking CDC and surgeon general lisp said masks didn't work back in MARCH.  and now they work!?  wat da hell??
He was wrong back then.  I blame this on Trump for this mask fuckup.  It's his CDC.  He is the boss and screwed up in March and cannot admit it because of his narcissism.
They only reason they said it than was they had to protect the supply of PPP for the health & medical professionals because we had no inventory/stock and weren't ready for this, nor were we ready to pivot and quickly address those PPP issues.  The science has always backed it up, but the government purposely (this is my opinion) ignored it for a presumed greater goods of ensuring they could get the limited supplies of PPP into those most in need. 

If it helps protect dr's and nurses it clearly helps protect the general population and any thought to the contrary is just nonsense.  I get people have freedoms in this country, but your right to walk into a store without a mask just doesn't fly. You have the freedom to not shop at any stores and just do all your business via the web.  Period.  It is the fact that as a country we didn't have mandatory mask rules coming out of the quarantines that we are even looking at this wave. All of the science largely backs up that we can contain and manage this pretty effectively, post quarantine, by keeping crowds down, social distancing, and use of masks in public.

If that means bars, concerts, large church congregations, amusement parks, and live sports events (with public fans) can't happen to ensure that everything else in our world and society can function pretty normal (for the near term)...than that is a small price to pay and an administration who was capable of any leadership would have figured that out right out of the gate and just lead (instead of spent all its time politicizing and dividing). Why the F use of a mask is at all political is completely beyond me).  And how so many people can ignore these truths for the sake of politics is just unbelievable to me.

Note: I hate wearing masks, but it is a pretty small nuisance to allow me to comfortably roam and go out until they come up with a vaccine or figure out better treatments. And I'll certainly take it vs. the alternative, which is a second wave that puts us into a severe depression. 
 
Drunk driving has a 99.99% survivability per year. 


On a simpler note, every business I've been has signs saying masks are required. If you exercise your right not to wear one, no one in the store should have confront you, you shouldnt be in it unless you think your right, trumps their right to require it it, like no shirt no service or any other health code or every patron's right to expect compiance with the law. 

Dont wear masks, stay out of every place requesting a mask without being asked.

Its simple.

 
adventurous said:
nosuchreality said:
10,497.

That?s 2016 drunk driving deaths.

Covid, 127,000+. Ytd.

Enough said.
How much the COVID number would change if everyone was bandana-zied? Would it change at all?
Materially - They have looked at it and when both people wear masks, the rate of infection drops significantly. Most of the masks do very little in preventing you from getting the virus (unless you are wearing some of the higher end masks with much stronger filters), however, all of the masks do a statistically significant job of stopping symptomatic and asymptomatic people from spreading the disease to others. 

Wearing the mask is to protect everyone else from getting the virus (yourself included) by preventing those with the infection from spreading the virus.  And the data backs this up...as does common sense. If a disease is largely spread from droplets and the use of a mask significantly reduces the risk of those droplets being in the air....well....what does that mean?  Hmmm....doesn't take a rocket science, but keep using mixed messaging from our government (which has failed at containing this virus more so than pretty much every other developed country in this world despite having more resources than most developed nations).

Oh and you want some other stats, look below. Proof is in the pudding here:

Over the last 2 weeks, cases have risen by 84% in states that don't require wearing masks in public. In states where mask wearing is mandatory, cases have fallen by 25%.
 
nosuchreality said:
Drunk driving has a 99.99% survivability per year. 


On a simpler note, every business I've been has signs saying masks are required. If you exercise your right not to wear one, no one in the store should have confront you, you shouldnt be in it unless you think your right, trumps their right to require it it, like no shirt no service or any other health code or every patron's right to expect compiance with the law. 

Dont wear masks, stay out of every place requesting a mask without being asked.

Its simple.
Exactly - You have the freedom to choose not to enter those establishments and do your commerce online. 
 
nosuchreality said:
Drunk driving has a 99.99% survivability per year. 
COVID numbers are 99.6%

nosuchreality said:
On a simpler note, every business I've been has signs saying masks are required. If you exercise your right not to wear one, no one in the store should have confront you, you shouldnt be in it unless you think your right, trumps their right to require it it, like no shirt no service or any other health code or every patron's right to expect compiance with the law. 

Dont wear masks, stay out of every place requesting a mask without being asked.

Its simple.
I am not sure I am following your logic. If I am asked by a private business to either wear a mask or leave, it's one thing. However, if the business posted a governor exec. order ('cause they have to), but cares less about enforcing it, that would be completely different story.
Please, elaborate on your opinion.
 
Bullsback said:
Materially - They have looked at it and when both people wear masks, the rate of infection drops significantly. Most of the masks do very little in preventing you from getting the virus (unless you are wearing some of the higher end masks with much stronger filters), however, all of the masks do a statistically significant job of stopping symptomatic and asymptomatic people from spreading the disease to others. 

Wearing the mask is to protect everyone else from getting the virus (yourself included) by preventing those with the infection from spreading the virus.  And the data backs this up...as does common sense. If a disease is largely spread from droplets and the use of a mask significantly reduces the risk of those droplets being in the air....well....what does that mean?  Hmmm....doesn't take a rocket science, but keep using mixed messaging from our government (which has failed at containing this virus more so than pretty much every other developed country in this world despite having more resources than most developed nations).

Oh and you want some other stats, look below. Proof is in the pudding here:

Over the last 2 weeks, cases have risen by 84% in states that don't require wearing masks in public. In states where mask wearing is mandatory, cases have fallen by 25%.
Who are "they"?
is there a difference between the street riots and sporting event from the virus protection standpoint? Why one is encourages, while the other one is punished?
Which states are we talking about?
 
@adventurous: Why is it when you don't agree you need everyone else to point you to scientific studies, but when you are asked to do the same you just say "think again"?

I'm asking because you still owe me that data on how you came up with your notion that New York developed herd immunity.
 
zubs said:
Everywhere says face coverings will help kill the transmission of covid 19.
Here is the CDC website.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover.html

Why do you hate science?

In fairness to the non maskers, those aggregated results say the results are suggestive and they also say they have a low degree of confidence in those suggestive results.

The media publishes that shit and then you guys just post it like it?s gospel.

With that said, I do agree that they provide some level of protection, to what extent we will probably never know.
 
qwerty said:
zubs said:
Everywhere says face coverings will help kill the transmission of covid 19.
Here is the CDC website.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover.html

Why do you hate science?

In fairness to the non maskers, those aggregated results say the results are suggestive and they also say they have a low degree of confidence in those suggestive results.

The media publishes that shit and then you guys just post it like it?s gospel.

With that said, I do agree that they provide some level of protection, to what extent we will probably never know.
As part of my job, I actually look at a ton of scientific data and research on this topic and other topics like it, and I do agree with you, there is a lot of misguided data and information that is out there. The use of masks is not one of them. The only misguided information was the initial suggestion by the government that they are not effective.  And I also will reiterate, they really aren't effective at preventing me from getting the virus, what they are effective at is preventing someone who is contagious from spreading the virus.

If I was the only person to wear a mask in a grocery store (and it is the little fabric mask I made that is non N95), than it actually offers extremely minimal protection (~<10%, in all probability, might be <5%).  So in isolation - pretty close to totally worthless; However, if I have the virus and I am the only person in the store with 100 people and I'm the only one wearing a mask, the same mask actually will do a pretty effective job at me not putting enough droplets out there to infect people (>50-60%) and obviously even more effective when combined with solid social distancing practices.  The combination of the two is where things get exponentially better though and its so good in fact, that when combined with solid social distancing practices (not quarantine...just being smart and keeping your space from strangers...you still can go to stores, you can still go to beach, you can still go on a jog, etc) are likely enough to keep a contagious person from infecting <1 other person (which in layman terms means, eventually, you basically snuff out the virus).

My whole point in this and I'm in the qwerty camp in a lot of what he says, because I don't think you can just lead us into a great depression over this, but we can at least keep this at mild recession levels with more limited impacts to most businesses by wearing masks and being smart until they come up with a vaccine or improved treatments (and on the treatment front - they have already made significant progress and no doubt they will get better). 
 
adventurous said:
Bullsback said:
Materially - They have looked at it and when both people wear masks, the rate of infection drops significantly. Most of the masks do very little in preventing you from getting the virus (unless you are wearing some of the higher end masks with much stronger filters), however, all of the masks do a statistically significant job of stopping symptomatic and asymptomatic people from spreading the disease to others. 

Wearing the mask is to protect everyone else from getting the virus (yourself included) by preventing those with the infection from spreading the virus.  And the data backs this up...as does common sense. If a disease is largely spread from droplets and the use of a mask significantly reduces the risk of those droplets being in the air....well....what does that mean?  Hmmm....doesn't take a rocket science, but keep using mixed messaging from our government (which has failed at containing this virus more so than pretty much every other developed country in this world despite having more resources than most developed nations).

Oh and you want some other stats, look below. Proof is in the pudding here:

Over the last 2 weeks, cases have risen by 84% in states that don't require wearing masks in public. In states where mask wearing is mandatory, cases have fallen by 25%.
Who are "they"?
is there a difference between the street riots and sporting event from the virus protection standpoint? Why one is encourages, while the other one is punished?
Which states are we talking about?
I'll ignore your first question - cause you clearly don't want to look into anything. On your 2nd question, I am 100% supportive of anyone's right to protest.  I won't talk about the street riots because I don't believe that to be reflective of the majority of the protesters and I do think that the protesters should have done a much better job and the governments should have enforced better social distancing.  In fact - I would argue the protest would have been more powerful - spread everyone out 6 feet apart in all the various downtowns across the country and you literally would be taking up multiple city blocks. 

In terms of sporting events, if it is indoor - I think it just is going to be limited - you can't afford to create mass spread events that could hinder and cause us to shutdown the economy. My view is, you need to manage this in the best possible way to manage hospitals, manage loss of lives (note: I said manage...cause loss of lives to some extent is inevitable), as well as to manage the economy.  The worst thing that could happen is if things spike and everything shuts back down.  Shutdowns aren't effective over days, they take multiple weeks, so I'd ask, would you rather have 90% of the businesses open and rolling with a pretty high probability that they stay rolling or would you want 100% knowing that the risk that you have to reshut down (once, if not twice) while also causing a significant death toll is much higher (I don't know what that stat is, but the data analysts and scientist should). 

On the outdoor front, you probably can actually have some fans attend (space out Dodger stadium and you could probably operate fairly safely in that open air setting.  Probably pretty limited concession stands, stricter rules about people being able to roam the stadium, etc, but big 50K stadiums can still handle 5-10K in fans (the only major issue is probably going to be the logistics of getting people in through the gates, etc). 

And for any of those limited businesses that aren't declared safe to open for the next 6-12 months, now that you have drastically reduced that number down to more isolated segments of the broader free enterprise system, you could do some pretty targeted stimulus that focused on propping up those businesses (including pass through to the businesses employees). 
 
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