coronavirus

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qwerty said:
Thanks IAC. Very helpful.

One last question - probably too hard to answer but any insight would be helpful.

What % of those that show up to ER with Covid-19 symptoms actually should have just stayed home because their symptoms did not actually require an ER visit?

I?m guessing there is a decent % because of the fear factor of having a new virus?

The real answer is we do not know. It's not something we track or can track unless we test everyone.

We are seeing panic induced calls and emails just based on the volume. But, is there panic at the ER level, I'd say no (or not yet)

Unfortunately, that can change very quickly as we're seeing in NY
 
morekaos said:
Yes, don?t stop up the ER demanding you have corona and want a test when you don?t have any symptoms but just a case of montzumas revenge  and badly want publicity.[size=18pt]




Actually, Montezuma may actually have finally gotten his revenge. The Aztecs, like most native Americans, were nearly wiped out in the years following 1492 because the Europeans brought over many viruses that were novel to the Americas.
 
qwerty said:
For the folks in healthcare (kenkoko/cornflakes/others)

Are the People going to ERs/hospitals there because they actually have emergencies related to covid19? Or are they there because they are exhibiting symptoms of covid-19?

From what I?ve read you should only go to an ER if you have shortness of breath or perhaps a fever that has not gone away after three days. Do all of the folks going to the ER actually need the ER? 

I guess the question is: is the healthcare system being overwhelmed just by covid19 related necessary visits to the ER/hospital? Or is it being bogged down by those who are experiencing the milder-type systems?

I am in the healthcare industry, but an office worker in a medical device company. Don't know much about what goes into hospitals but as a device maker I know that we are producing as much as we can because of spiked demand and constantly attempting to boost morale for our production workers as they are making sacrifices by showing up to work every day and fighting the COVID-19 fight from behind the scenes.
 
A very rough / anecdotal estimate would be 50%. So half of people can be sent home with minimal to no workup (probably didn't need to come in). The other half deserve further investigation into their respiratory complaint.

You can't clinically tell the difference between flu or COVID or some other virus. I have to assume at this point if you come in with cold/flu symptoms it's COVID until proven otherwise. Unfortunately I don't have enough tests to know for sure.


Kenkoko said:
qwerty said:
Thanks IAC. Very helpful.

One last question - probably too hard to answer but any insight would be helpful.

What % of those that show up to ER with Covid-19 symptoms actually should have just stayed home because their symptoms did not actually require an ER visit?

I?m guessing there is a decent % because of the fear factor of having a new virus?

The real answer is we do not know. It's not something we track or can track unless we test everyone.

We are seeing panic induced calls and emails just based on the volume. But, is there panic at the ER level, I'd say no (or not yet)

Unfortunately, that can change very quickly as we're seeing in NY
 
Are people who recovered from COVID-19 done with it once and for all? Do they run the risk of catching it again? Do they spread after recovery?
 
One positive side effect of lockdown...

My family is spread all over the country and the world. This morning, the timing was so perfect and everyone was home, we all got Google Duo installed and did 10-way video call. Got to see all aunts, uncles, kids...at once. It was like virtual thanksgiving.
 
I wouldn?t want to go to the ER unless I?m on my last leg.  That?s the epicenter of the virus.  If someone wanted to take me to a place where 10% of everyone I see has the virus, I?d rather stay home and try to tough it out. 

Of course if it got to the point where I couldn?t breath and a ventilator may save my life, I?d go.
 
Ready2Downsize said:
Liar Loan said:
The top 5 based on percentage infected are:

1. Newport Beach ~ 0.037%
2. San Juan Capo ~ 0.024%
3. Dana Point ~      0.020%
4. Laguna Niguel ~ 0.016%
5. San Clemente ~ 0.015%

All of the above are rather wealthy, older, white, and adjacent to the coast.  Irvine ranks in 10th place based on percentage.

Don't you think that wealthier areas have a higher percentage getting tested?

If I'm poor, maybe not legal, do I want to or do I have access to get tested? Do I want to or have to work as much as I possibly can and if I'm sick that ain't happening, so I'm shutting up and not getting tested? Look at Santa Ana.... so many residents and so few cases. Do I believe that? Not for one second.

Yes, after I posted this I dug into the numbers further and realized the lowest infection rates were in the poorest cities: Stanton, Garden Grove, La Habra, Brea, and Santa Ana.  Poorer cities, in reality, are probably more infected due to more people per household and the nature of their jobs, but the wealthier cities show the highest number of "confirmed" cases when adjusting for population. 

It's a function of wealthier people getting tested more frequently, but it's also a function of older people getting tested more frequently.  Wealthier areas tend to have more elderly and fewer children.  So the city counts are skewed in both ways: household wealth and average age.
 
We really need more testing on the trace part and of completely mild symptoms.  Basically 1 in 5 tests are positve, but I still suspect those getting tested are heavily skewed to direct contact or most serious symptoms.  Just guessing, I really have know idea how many people with a slight running nose and occasional cough from allergies are lining up to get tests. 

To be honest, short of a test sent to my house, I'm not queuing for test.
 
Testing was the most useful and crucial when it could be paired with tracing and quarantine.

Unfortunately, we missed the window of opportunity to do that.

We simply do not have the manpower / structure to do that at the current level of infected cases. (at 130k confirmed & 20k new cases daily and increasing)

In terms of strategy, we already shifted from case containment to averting excess morbidity and mortality.

This doesn't mean we should stop testing.

But the harsh reality is, until we have enough kits to test everyone, we need to prioritize testing on symptomatic patients and only when a diagnostic result will change clinical management.

Testing results going forward is the most useful to gauge where we are at in this crisis. But at the current stage, daily death count already give us a good idea.

Our daily new death count went up to 525 yesterday. At this rate we will sadly break 1000 new death daily by next week.

 
On case counts b city, someone posters on NextDoor said it could also be by hospital location until reporting gets more refined.

Irvine and Newport have Hoag and there is large Kaiser in Anaheim.
 
Here are my charts tracking the progress of COVID-19 in Orange County.  If you have any feedback or suggestions, I welcome them.
 

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Yes we screwed the pooch on testing.  However,if we only are testing problematic symptomatic individuals, what's the new measure?  I equate that to essentially only looking at the flu in patients that require hospitalization.  Maybe medical visits. When you look at the CDC stats at that level, you realize how dangerous is the flu.  At the hospitalization level, the flu had a 7.6% mortality rate in 2016/17.  At the medical visit level its 0.3% mortality.  It also converted about 3.9% of medical vists to hospitalizations.  Again, the crux here that hospitalization rate of infected.

With current stats, we're between the medical visit and hospitalization rate.  The percent converting in New York is stunningly higher.  Where are they though on that curve of testing?

If we only test the sickest, we need to expect much higher numbers and figure out how we determine what is the general population and timeline impact.  As you look around the world you see wildly varying stats.  Taiwan, Korea, Germany look good, Italy looking bad.  We do need to pay attention to other factors though, the flu in Italy is wildly variable, in previous seasons, their mortality rate ranged from on par with the USA to 5x the USA.

At this point, going back to business as usual is foolhardy, however I don't see the USA population hunkering down in status quo until June unless the numbers get really bad.  i also expect the acrimony come June to be truly ugly.
 
nosuchreality said:
Yes we screwed the pooch on testing.  However,if we only are testing problematic symptomatic individuals, what's the new measure?  I equate that to essentially only looking at the flu in patients that require hospitalization.  Maybe medical visits. When you look at the CDC stats at that level, you realize how dangerous is the flu.  At the hospitalization level, the flu had a 7.6% mortality rate in 2016/17.  At the medical visit level its 0.3% mortality.  It also converted about 3.9% of medical vists to hospitalizations.  Again, the crux here that hospitalization rate of infected.

With current stats, we're between the medical visit and hospitalization rate.  The percent converting in New York is stunningly higher.  Where are they though on that curve of testing?

If we only test the sickest, we need to expect much higher numbers and figure out how we determine what is the general population and timeline impact.  As you look around the world you see wildly varying stats.  Taiwan, Korea, Germany look good, Italy looking bad.  We do need to pay attention to other factors though, the flu in Italy is wildly variable, in previous seasons, their mortality rate ranged from on par with the USA to 5x the USA.

At this point, going back to business as usual is foolhardy, however I don't see the USA population hunkering down in status quo until June unless the numbers get really bad.  i also expect the acrimony come June to be truly ugly.

But you previously said it was a hoax and a cough.
Comparing covid to a flu. Is like comparing a dog bite to a shark bite.
 
Show me where I said that.

eyephone said:
nosuchreality said:
Yes we screwed the pooch on testing.  However,if we only are testing problematic symptomatic individuals, what's the new measure?  I equate that to essentially only looking at the flu in patients that require hospitalization.  Maybe medical visits. When you look at the CDC stats at that level, you realize how dangerous is the flu.  At the hospitalization level, the flu had a 7.6% mortality rate in 2016/17.  At the medical visit level its 0.3% mortality.  It also converted about 3.9% of medical vists to hospitalizations.  Again, the crux here that hospitalization rate of infected.

With current stats, we're between the medical visit and hospitalization rate.  The percent converting in New York is stunningly higher.  Where are they though on that curve of testing?

If we only test the sickest, we need to expect much higher numbers and figure out how we determine what is the general population and timeline impact.  As you look around the world you see wildly varying stats.  Taiwan, Korea, Germany look good, Italy looking bad.  We do need to pay attention to other factors though, the flu in Italy is wildly variable, in previous seasons, their mortality rate ranged from on par with the USA to 5x the USA.

At this point, going back to business as usual is foolhardy, however I don't see the USA population hunkering down in status quo until June unless the numbers get really bad.  i also expect the acrimony come June to be truly ugly.

But you previously said it was a hoax and a cough.
Comparing covid to a flu. Is like comparing a dog bite to a shark bite.
 
Hold up...

nosuchreality said:
Show me where I said that.

eyephone said:
nosuchreality said:
Yes we screwed the pooch on testing.  However,if we only are testing problematic symptomatic individuals, what's the new measure?  I equate that to essentially only looking at the flu in patients that require hospitalization.  Maybe medical visits. When you look at the CDC stats at that level, you realize how dangerous is the flu.  At the hospitalization level, the flu had a 7.6% mortality rate in 2016/17.  At the medical visit level its 0.3% mortality.  It also converted about 3.9% of medical vists to hospitalizations.  Again, the crux here that hospitalization rate of infected.

With current stats, we're between the medical visit and hospitalization rate.  The percent converting in New York is stunningly higher.  Where are they though on that curve of testing?

If we only test the sickest, we need to expect much higher numbers and figure out how we determine what is the general population and timeline impact.  As you look around the world you see wildly varying stats.  Taiwan, Korea, Germany look good, Italy looking bad.  We do need to pay attention to other factors though, the flu in Italy is wildly variable, in previous seasons, their mortality rate ranged from on par with the USA to 5x the USA.

At this point, going back to business as usual is foolhardy, however I don't see the USA population hunkering down in status quo until June unless the numbers get really bad.  i also expect the acrimony come June to be truly ugly.

But you previously said it was a hoax and a cough.
Comparing covid to a flu. Is like comparing a dog bite to a shark bite.
 
nosuchreality said:
irvinehomeowner said:
Isn't this how the 2nd rebooted Planet of the Apes starts?

Or 28 Days Later?



A virus from animals... first swine/birds... now this.

Meanwhile, influenza is on track to kill 36,000 in the USA this year and a half million worldwide on a pretty mild typical year.

Here is where you talked about influenza.
 
nosuchreality said:
Depends on if the counts are right.  The estimate is that the actual infection count is artificially low, comparable to counting hospitalization rates on the flu. Death rate if hospitalized with the flu is closer to 6%.

A week ago, 1/3rd of my kids class (ten kids) where out sick on a single.day. My kid brought it home, 103 fever,cough diarrhea, not the flu. Flu test was negative. Spread to the rest of us. 

Every year, the 'flu' comes thru. Every year its a dice toss on the vaccine mix and whether it mutates towards a Spanish Flu type event.

The precaution you are thinking of taking are the precautions you should already be doing for the flu.

You continue to compare covid to the flu. There are too many posts to quote. This is like the right trying to undermine the devastation of covid.

Reminds me of this article on OCVoice: Fielder: OC Supervisors Spread Falsehoods About COVID-19 Risks

One thing we know about COVID-19 is that it is more lethal than influenza (%u201Cthe flu%u201D). A study of 72,314 cases of COVID-19 from the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention, published on 2/24/20 in the prestigious Journal of the American Medical Association, concluded that the overall case-fatality rate among confirmed cases was 2.3%. Remarkably, no deaths were reported among any of the patients aged 9 or less. However, the disease was frighteningly lethal for the oldest cohorts (8% for ages 70-79 and almost 15% for people older than 79).

By comparison, the flu kills somewhere between 0.04% and 0.14% of the people it infects, according to the latest figures from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. In other words, based on these figures, COVID-19 is roughly twenty times more lethal than the flu.
https://voiceofoc.org/2020/03/fielder-oc-supervisors-spread-falsehoods-about-covid-19-risks/
 
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