Common Core Standards

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Irvinecommuter said:
irvinehomeowner said:
I'm trying to remember but do AP courses/tests count as actual college credits or just a passing a prerequisite for other courses?

From what I remember, getting a 4 or 5 on AP Calc lets you skip 2 math courses in college. Same thing with AP Chem, AP English, AP Physics etc etc.
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From my recollection, passing AP tests allows you to receive credit but many schools only allows you to use them for GE purposes, i.e. you can't use them for your major.

UC policy

Units awarded toward UC graduation may be granted for specific subjects and/or for general education/breadth requirements, as determined by each campus.

AP exams can also be used to meet the minimum transfer admission subject requirements in English, Math and 4 other courses chosen from the humanities, behavorial/social sciences and biological/physical sciences.

Please encourage students to take AP tests when appropriate. Although the College Board reports all AP tests results to us, students should be aware AP test scores lower than 3 will not adversely affect their chances for admission.

Units granted for AP tests are not counted toward the maximum number of credits required for formal declaration of a major or the maximum number of units a student may accumulate prior to graduation. Students who enter UC with AP credit do not have to declare a major earlier than other students, nor are they required to graduate earlier.
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http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/counselors/exam-credit/ap-credits/index.html

That's part of the reason why I think AP "credit" is way overblown.  You can't use them to pursue a major and GE courses are pretty easy (and honestly really fun).
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I will have to disagree.  I took tons of AP classes in high school and UC allowed me to register all my classes with a sophomore standing for freshman classes.  I bypassed so many issues with getting the classes I wanted because I always had registration priority. 

I think getting priority class registrations in college is worth it's weight in gold.

Also AP classes does count towards GE classes and I didn't have to take a single history class while in college because I passed out of all of them with my AP credits.  I also skipped a calculus class too because of my AP credits too.

Of course I squandered all of that goofing off my freshman year in college because I was so burnt after all that studying in high school.  So I was lucky to just graduate in general.  lol

But for my own kids I will be making them take AP tests just so they can get the same priority registration perks I had when I was in the UC system.  I only had problems with ONE class that I didn't get because it was full at the time I wanted it.  Those 10am to 11am classes go fast.  Of course I don't know how other elite or IVY leagues work the AP credits.
 
Irvinecommuter said:
WTTCMN said:
irvinehomeowner said:
I'm trying to remember but do AP courses/tests count as actual college credits or just a passing a prerequisite for other courses?

From what I remember, getting a 4 or 5 on AP Calc lets you skip 2 math courses in college. Same thing with AP Chem, AP English, AP Physics etc etc.
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A lot of this is dependent on where you go to college and what your major is. For some majors, AP classes can't replace classes required for your major.  I was a non math/science major so my AP calc credit got me out of all college math.
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I can see wanting to get out math but I think going to classes outside of your major is part of the college experience.  One of the best classes I had in college was my film studies class...it helps me to learn about things like camera angles, lighting, and gave me a deeper appreciation of films in general.
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Me too!!  I took 5 film classes for my GE including screenwriting.  It made me appreciate the movie industry that much more.  I've also grown to love Buster Keaton and Marlene Dietrich films too.  It truly is part of the college experience.
 
exactly the student should get a chance to take the course that are they interested.They justify the placement tests saying that the students should learn rigorously before going for Algebra 1. But How does it make sense if the exam standard is increased without increasing the class room teaching standard.
My daughter came to me with an issue on Exponent. I have asked how the zero exponent rule is derived and if she can prove "how anything raised to zero power is 1, not zero. She said she was not told and memorized in the class.
I explained her that it is nothing but a derivation of Quotient exponent rule with an example 2 cube over 2 suare is one as we are 2 multiplied by itself 3 times over 2 multiplied by itself two times . Similarly if 2/2 is one which is nothing but 2 raised to first power over 2 raised to first power. when we apply quotient rule to 2 first power over 2 first power, it would be 2 raised to zero power. I explained her all the rules with examples and she could remember all of them without memorizing. Earlier she used to memorize like multuplication tables and forgot easily. If the class room explains why and how the mathematical formulaues are derived, kids will nt forget them easily.
 
chava45 said:
exactly the student should get a chance to take the course that are they interested.They justify the placement tests saying that the students should learn rigorously before going for Algebra 1. But How does it make sense if the exam standard is increased without increasing the class room teaching standard.
My daughter came to me with an issue on Exponent. I have asked how the zero exponent rule is derived and if she can prove "how anything raised to zero power is 1, not zero. She said she was not told and memorized in the class.
I explained her that it is nothing but a derivation of Quotient exponent rule with an example 2 cube over 2 suare is one as we are 2 multiplied by itself 3 times over 2 multiplied by itself two times . Similarly if 2/2 is one which is nothing but 2 raised to first power over 2 raised to first power. when we apply quotient rule to 2 first power over 2 first power, it would be 2 raised to zero power. I explained her all the rules with examples and she could remember all of them without memorizing. Earlier she used to memorize like multuplication tables and forgot easily. If the class room explains why and how the mathematical formulaues are derived, kids will nt forget them easily.
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Agreed.  I don't know why so many teachers don't bother explaining concepts anymore.  It's either:

1 - they don't have time, or

2 - they don't think it's worth their time, or

3 - it's because they don't fully understand the concept themselves because they memorized it at kids too.

I've seen all 3 happen before.
 
In Holt math course 2 (grade 7), it introduced exponentiation with positive integer power first. Then it goes to scientific notation. After showing how a sequence like 1000, 100, 10, 1, 0.1, 0.01 ----, it introduced 10 with exponent 0 and negative exponent.  It follows the negative exponents? definition and how two numbers with common base but different exponents are operated.  In the examples, kids should be able to know why a non-zero number with exponent 0 is 1 (like 2^3/2^3). It seemed to be very straight forward.
Personally, I really think my kids? teachers do the jobs. But from my own learning experience in other country, the big difference is not on how fast progress is going or how basic concepts are explained, but on practice time.  Usually the kids here do not practice basic maths enough even though they know how to do it. And more practice time normally means higher grade in test.
My kid finished Holt math grade 6 this year. And she tried the first placement test sample. She can solve all the questions. I also bought a common core grade 7 from Amazon, she can only answer about 2/3 of those questions.  She cannot understand what the questions are really asking. In common core, all the math questions are in short paragraphs. Then it matters a lot how the questioned are asked.  For example, if  a man threw two dices, the probability to get the same points is 1/6. But if two dices both have 1 point, the probability is 1/36. Then in the test, students need to read the short paragraph very careful and understand how the dices are threw. Also the teacher who asked the question must have very good writing. I don?t know how this year?s placement test questions look like. Can someone kindly put some questions up?
 
However, if the tests are cancelled, why wouldn't the district release the tests they gave this year?
In fact I hope they do it.
If the district delegated the responsibility of selecting the appropriate math class for the student to his/her parents they might as well forward to us, the parents, placement tests.
 
IrvineRes said:
However, if the tests are cancelled, why wouldn't the district release the tests they gave this year?
In fact I hope they do it.
If the district delegated the responsibility of selecting the appropriate math class for the student to his/her parents they might as well forward to us, the parents, placement tests.
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Just because the placement tests gets cancelled this year it doesn't mean it won't come back 5 years from now.

Education works in a 7 year cycle.  Pendulum swings one way and then 7 years later it swings the other.  Once you've experienced it for over 15+ years it's all recycled stuff.

And when does a company that publishes tests for a living EVER give out test questions for free??

It's like asking the private sector to give out free patents to people when their patent expires.
 
ZeroLot said:
kiki said:
I don?t know how this year?s placement test questions look like. Can someone kindly put some questions up?
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The best anyone can give you legally is this:
http://www.cde.ca.gov/ta/tg/sa/practicetest.asp

Unless you can get a kid to take a few pics of their test and post it up.  :P
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@kiki - I misread your post thinking you wanted common core test questions. 

Anyhow as for placement test questions you have a better chance of asking a kid that took the placement tests than an adult.  As it is illegal to ever post up test questions that are on published tests.  Unless the school gets copyright permission from the vendor of the tests to release its content.

Anyhow I've said too much already and will be bowing out at this point.  I know all of the parents on this forum wants the best for our kids.  There are a lot of changes coming and it will be a challenging road ahead.  But if only your kids knew how much effort you're putting into their future they'll appreciate it more than another study packet.

I'll leave you with this video and the very interesting education philosophies that's popping up on Ted Talk.
http://www.teachthought.com/trends/10-of-the-best-tedtalks-on-improving-education/

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=kp&v=h11u3vtcpaY
 
Looks IUSD is still under confusion about the placement exam. Oneday, they say there are no placement tests for this year. Another day, they say there are .
Today my friend called Mark and he says there are placements tests even if the waiver form is submitted.

No idea what is happening
 
By the way, This is a quote from Mark Sontag's e-mail:
"You have the option of having your child re-take either the MSMAT or AAT this summer. Alternatively, if you don?t want your child to do the re-take, you can fill out the attached waiver form and return to me. This only applies to students who are returning to IUSD. New to IUSD students cannot fill out the waiver."
There is only an option to jump 1 level.  If you want to jump 2 levels to Algebra 1 for 7th grade you would have to take AAT test.
At least this is the latest I've heard and based on what happened in the last few weeks I would not be surprised if it will change again.
 
Yes- I got the same information.  After we got that mass email the other week, I immediately emailed just to verify there is no test since it was such a confusing email.  I got a response yesterday saying the exact same thing that was said in Mark's email.  But also, if the child doesn't pass the AAT, you can still sign the waiver for the child to do Algebra in 7th. 
 
Yes I got an email that the child has to take take AAT exam for placing into Algebra 1. They are going to place the child in aglebra 1 , irrespective of the outcome of the test. It further says the test is for their data so that they can plan for future placement test. That is what the email says.

Excerpt of the email:
==================================================
You have submitted a waiver request for your incoming 7th Grade student to be placed in Algebra 1. We will place your child in Algebra 1 after they take the Algebra Acceleration Test (AAT). Your child will be placed in Algebra 1 regardless of their score on the AAT based on your waiver request. Our purpose in requiring students to take the AAT so that we have the data as we continue to modify our placement process for the future.

If your child did not pass the Middle School Math Acceleration Test (MSMAT) it is your choice whether they re-take that test. The only requirement for placement in Algebra 1 as an incoming 7th Grader is to take the AAT.
================================================================
 
chava45 said:
http://concernedpvparents.org/2014/05/27/cc-math-dumbed-down-proof/
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Counter-point: http://educationnext.org/a-point-by...common-core-op-ed-in-the-wall-street-journal/

Believe what you want.  Again, the CC standards are in line with those taught in Singapore.  Singapore is seen as the leader in K-12 education.

Again...there is no restrictions on how far your kid can go.  If your can demonstrate understanding of the concepts, there will be advance classes for your children to go to.    I made it to Calculus in high school but did poorly...I ended up with a science degree just fine. 
 
So you mean to say the teachers in elementary school and middle school enjoy with low teaching standard
. if the partent want their kid to be ready for STEM job, they should make their own arrangement outside so that they can compete.
It is waste of tax payers money on public schools.
We can not say singapore math model is a successful model as it is not a leader in any inventions or discoveries. Most of the scientific inventions are from U.S.A. If there is any less staffing or talented professional in schools, that should be corrected and see that the students understand concept well and practice well.

Most of the people in common core validation committe were not from Mathametics department. Here is the poor old man who could not do any thing , except venting his anger in a public seminar.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuexIMWBOQY
 
chava45 said:
So you mean to say the teachers in elementary school and middle school enjoy with low teaching standard
. if the partent want their kid to be ready for STEM job, they should make their own arrangement outside so that they can compete.
It is waste of tax payers money on public schools.
We can not say singapore math model is a successful model as it is not a leader in any inventions or discoveries. Most of the scientific inventions are from U.S.A. If there is any less staffing or talented professional in schools, that should be corrected and see that the students understand concept well and practice well.
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You keep quoting the same guy...adding on doesn't make your point more relevant or better.  I mean, are we line up professors who support common core?
http://www.insidehighered.com/news/...blic-attacks-over-her-math-education-research
http://www.usnews.com/news/special-...es/2014/02/27/who-is-fighting-for-common-core

No.  I am saying that schools will have advance classes to accommodate advance students regardless of what standards are used.  You really think that IUSD is going to stop calculus classes?  Common Core is meant to ensure that kids have a better idea of what they are learning as opposed to straight memorization and formula based learning.  That will improve students ability to innovate, invent, and make discoveries. 

I don't know why you think common core is a bad thing.  Learning math through memorization and formula is a terrible way to learn.

Singapore 's system is quite excellent: 
http://theconversation.com/why-is-s...ccessful-and-is-it-a-model-for-the-west-22917
http://features.insing.com/feature/...tough-singapore-education-system/id-a43d3101/

If there is any less staffing or talented professional in schools, that should be corrected and see that the students understand concept well and practice well.
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I have no idea what this means. 
 
If you did google ?Professor Jason Zimba?, founder of CC, he admitted that ?being prepared for college meant being ready for a nonselective two-year community college, not a selective four-year institution.?

Also, you can google Indiana moms against common core and see how Heather Crossin fight against common core and why Indiana withdrew from common core.

There is also news about math education experiment (adopting US common core math and also taking PISA test) in other country. But finally,  US common core math is not adopted.

One of CC example is to do 427 minus 316. You will easily think the answer is 111. But no, in common core math test, you are not allowed to do that. You need to minus 100 from 427 four times, then minus 10 one times and finally minus 1 six times. That is ridicules and also against traditional method which starting from the most right side digit.

Another CC math test example is why the straw in the back of juice box is diagonally attached.  It is more like IQ test.

As to Singapore math, I did not think it is as slow as common core math.  For example, in old CA standard, one variable equation is learned at end of 7th grade. In CC math, it is in late 8th grade or even later. But is Singapore math, it is learned in early 7th grade. CC math is more like reform math not like Singapore math.

The best part of Singapore math, IMHO, is about how to solve word problems systemically. Singapore math also stresses on enough practice (the thing US students lack most but Singapore students need to practice a lot for examination).

In 2011, there are 614 seniors in Uni high. 88 took AP calculus AB and 93 took AP calculus BC (of course, not all of them are seniors). At least it said that calculus is not only for Ivy League students. 
 
Yes,Common core in the present form is totally bad path. If they had not skipped Calculus in high school, it would have been good. Now it is splitting the kids into two groups at elementary school itself. One group , the so called , advanced group who will be eligible for STEM courses in colleges and the other group they are not eligible. Is it good thing to close the doors for 90% of the kids from elementary school? One way, we are making hue&cry that U.S students are not going to Science and engineering courses and the other way, blocking the kids from elementary school . Companies are not going to compromise with low standards and less qualified people. They are going to shop globally and hire the foreign graduates.
Earlier system was good as kids have chance to decide about their path until high schoo. The non advanced kids are not less in IQ or Advacned kids are high in IQ. Some parents who want their kid should be eligible to College STEM courses are enrolling in Private tutoring and makeing them advanced. Those parents who don't or can't enroll their kids in private maths academy are considered as non advanced and dropped from College stem path.
Avid acadmey and Irvine math academy are working over time to make money and make the kids ready for Algebra1.

Is it fair and balanced education system? Why can't the state introduce the Pre-algebra common core from 5th grade and 6h grade common and 7th grade Algebra 1 so that all the kids get a chance to take Calculus in High school if they want.

Another point is we are looking at one side of the coin and conclude that kids are not doing well and needs extra time. but we are not looking at the teaching standards in the school. Same teacher teaches all the subjects histroy, math, english in 6th grade. say if the teacher is from history majaor or Psycology major, how can he/she teach pre-algebra math effectively? that is where the kids without private tutoring are lagging as that teacher main focus would be on non math courses.  Why can;t we introduce the high school teaching method from 5th grade that each subject is taught by a teacher with specilization in that field.
I don't have any issue with my daughter as I can teach her and enrolled in private tutoring. But what about the kids whose parents can not afford or teach. The system should address those areas and fix it. Simply taking a singpore model and introduce it not a good method. Most of the pro common core people are politicians or social activists . Parents have not been informed fully about Pros& cons of it before implementing it.  Every body gets A+ in math now but nobody will be eligible for Ivy league college admission.

 
Common core or current method-  waivers are a problem in the classroom.  Some kids just aren't ready and the parents push them in anyways.  Then the teachers slow down the pace of the class because of these kids-  which frustrates the other students.  Next year is going to be challenging for all the kids on both sides of this testing-  both those who passed the test and those waived in.
 
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