irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
And your point?qwerty said:
Common Core Standards
- Thread starter abcd1234
- Start date
NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
Oh, God, let's break it down. The "LISTS" you provided... LOL? They have zero credibility. An american research company (and British co) proclaiming that American-British universities are the best in the world? Wow, did not see that coming. TR acquired Peterson and West Publishing - all US based businesses?and I am not surprised they are claiming that US Universities are best in the world. Let's look at methodology. the # of Nobel Laureats?who cares? Those folks do not contribute to the mass education at all. I went to UCLA and UC Berkeley and I never even had an opportunity to meet these people. UCLA is No. 12?well that discredits it right there. 400 students per class, quality of education is falling, professor retention is a problem, cattle call everywhere, overcrowded and limited (cut) funding for research, not to mention the bureaucracy. I am a former Bruin but come on. UCLA's quality of education was a joke comparing to education I got in another country. Another criteria- published research. Well, when is the last time you read a published research in Chinese, Hebrew, Russian, Arabic? I am taking about research papers that are not translated in English and I doubt that the boneheads who rank World Universities read them either. The bias of the ranking is that it had to be in English. Hence, US-UK universities rule the top charts. Let's pat ourselves on the back for this false sense of achievement.
I would prefer to send my kids to a Cali school since I live here, in California. That does not reflect my belief that HK Institute of Science has a lesser quality of education. But a study abroad is a good idea.
Not the end of the world, if your kid (or my kid) goes to a CC. Cheaper and easier to transfer into UCLA/UC Berkeley/UCI/UC San Diego anyway. I am with you on that one. So if you want your kid to have a relaxing senior year and then take remedial classes in college, that's cool.
1) They actually don't. Most Nobel Laureates are tenured and department chairs so they stick around. Visiting professors by definition travel around but the primary professors do not. Universities are about both teaching and research, nobel laureates and leaders in their field help with both.
2) I feel like your experience in college shaped your view of what "American" colleges are like. There is a reason why people all over the world focus on coming to the US for education and especially higher education.
3) I didn't make the ruling on English...it's a fact
http://www.nature.com/ncb/journal/v3/n4/full/ncb0401_e89.html
http://www.molbiolcell.org/content/23/8/1399.full
4) So...you are the arbiter of what is a "good" college while everyone is biased? What exactly constitute as "verifiable, objective data?" How about:
Ok, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I have mine and you have yours. But a few points require my response:
1) that was not my experience at UCLA. The very few tenured profs I had (and again the emphasis is on very few) departed after they got a better offer, more $, or a Fed Gov opportunity. The true stars were picked up by other colleges since UCLA could not match a competing offer from a private school. Or they were on "sabbatical." Perhaps things have improved since I graduated, but with the budget cuts?I think not.
2) As a reminder, I am only talking about UCLA because it is No 12 on the infamous Best Universities in the World List. So yes, it is representative. Maybe U Kansas has a better system, but it is not at the top of the rankings you provided me (I guess Nobels do not go there).
2) It is delusional to think that people come here for the quality of our higher education. Gimmie a break. If that was the case, we would not have any British, German, or Russian students. Foreign students come here for better jobs, better opportunity, to escape government oppression, civil war and for many other reasons that have nothing to do with the quality of our education.
3) I am not even going to respond to this nonsense. Opinion editorials that have zero supporting evidence are not facts.
4) I don't dispute that foreign students are a huge business for US colleges/universities. But you have to understand, that it is a lot easier for a Brit to get into US college than for an American kid to get into a British Uni. Their admissions process is extremely hard. Same goes for universities in Germany, Russia and other countries. They are not exactly enthusiastic about our SATs and GPAs. There are many other factors, but we are getting off topic.
Look, if you don't want to challenge your kid, fine. I think that was the point of our debate anyway.
Maybe foreign students learn math so well because they are afraid of what happens if they don't.
Seriously...it's 8th grade!
Wondering what those parents are going to do with the new SAT.
irvinehomeowner said:So you're calling this list a "false idea"?Veronica said:
http://www.timeshighereducation.co....14/subject-ranking/subject/engineering-and-IT
14 of the top 20 are in the US. The top 5 are US.
That's not the only one. Google will tell you that the US dominates in Engineering and IT. Would you rather send your kid to MIT, CalTech or HK University of Science?
Or I can pay for 2 years in a JC and only have to pay for 2-3 years in a university.
Doesn't seem like you *really* do.
That's not my point. My point is if you don't get to Calculus in high school, that doesn't mean you won't be able to pursue a tech degree in college.
Maybe so. Like I said, college admissions may have changed from my day.
Eh... still not end of the world.
You can always go the JC transfer to UC route. I believe it's easier to transfer as a Junior than to get admitted as a Freshman. Cheaper too.
I hope my kid(s) do this so I can come back to this thread and tell everyone that advanced math isn't all that.
Oh, God, let's break it down. The "LISTS" you provided... LOL? They have zero credibility. An american research company (and British co) proclaiming that American-British universities are the best in the world? Wow, did not see that coming. TR acquired Peterson and West Publishing - all US based businesses?and I am not surprised they are claiming that US Universities are best in the world. Let's look at methodology. the # of Nobel Laureats?who cares? Those folks do not contribute to the mass education at all. I went to UCLA and UC Berkeley and I never even had an opportunity to meet these people. UCLA is No. 12?well that discredits it right there. 400 students per class, quality of education is falling, professor retention is a problem, cattle call everywhere, overcrowded and limited (cut) funding for research, not to mention the bureaucracy. I am a former Bruin but come on. UCLA's quality of education was a joke comparing to education I got in another country. Another criteria- published research. Well, when is the last time you read a published research in Chinese, Hebrew, Russian, Arabic? I am taking about research papers that are not translated in English and I doubt that the boneheads who rank World Universities read them either. The bias of the ranking is that it had to be in English. Hence, US-UK universities rule the top charts. Let's pat ourselves on the back for this false sense of achievement.
I would prefer to send my kids to a Cali school since I live here, in California. That does not reflect my belief that HK Institute of Science has a lesser quality of education. But a study abroad is a good idea.
Not the end of the world, if your kid (or my kid) goes to a CC. Cheaper and easier to transfer into UCLA/UC Berkeley/UCI/UC San Diego anyway. I am with you on that one. So if you want your kid to have a relaxing senior year and then take remedial classes in college, that's cool.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
@Veronica:
But that's not the only list.
If you're saying that your personal experience trumps conventional methodologies that rank colleges (along with public opinion), then donuts should be the number one food in the world based on my own experience.
I think we are getting off the subject of Common Core here. Lucky for you, it does use foreign methods to teach math so maybe in a decade or so our kids can stop being "laughed at" by foreign exchange students. And if not, that's cool.
But that's not the only list.
If you're saying that your personal experience trumps conventional methodologies that rank colleges (along with public opinion), then donuts should be the number one food in the world based on my own experience.
I think we are getting off the subject of Common Core here. Lucky for you, it does use foreign methods to teach math so maybe in a decade or so our kids can stop being "laughed at" by foreign exchange students. And if not, that's cool.
Irvinecommuter
New member
Veronica:
I don't understand your point. University with nobel laureates attract research money, other professors, and top notch graduate students. Many of the professors that teach in the US are the tops in their field.
As for research papers, it's pretty much understood that in order for you to be a "top level" researcher or of any renown, you publish in English (or get it translated into English). It's the universal language for science, engineer, and basically all things technology. The foremost scientific, medical, and technological journals are published in English and mostly in the US and UK.
Shanghai Ranking is done by a university in Shanghai...it lists 17 of the top universities as in the US, two in England, and one in Switzerland.
http://www.shanghairanking.com/ARWU2013.html
I don't understand your point. University with nobel laureates attract research money, other professors, and top notch graduate students. Many of the professors that teach in the US are the tops in their field.
As for research papers, it's pretty much understood that in order for you to be a "top level" researcher or of any renown, you publish in English (or get it translated into English). It's the universal language for science, engineer, and basically all things technology. The foremost scientific, medical, and technological journals are published in English and mostly in the US and UK.
Shanghai Ranking is done by a university in Shanghai...it lists 17 of the top universities as in the US, two in England, and one in Switzerland.
http://www.shanghairanking.com/ARWU2013.html
Nobel Laureates migrate from Uni to Uni, depending on the research grant they could get. This is not a reflection of quality of education of THAT University but rather the $ race. They rarely teach. Besides, many research professors/talent move out from one uni to another for personal family reasons or other unrelated factors (e.g. high pollution in Shanghai). True, many US professors are the leaders in their field. But many are average folks with mediocre intellect/education/abilities. We all have suffered through such folks back in our college days. At UCLA many of my professors were "visiting" (we all know what that means), non-tenured lecturers, grad students (TAs) and some other random folks. At the same time, many professors who teach in Germany or Korea are the tops of their field as well.
I really take an issue that a quality research paper needs to be an English. Get out of your bubble already. In Germany, a professor gets a promotion and recognition for publishing a research paper in German, not English. Same in Russia, China and other countries. I never heard that English is the universal language for science, technology or medicine. When did that happen? Just because you live in the US this does not mean that the rest of the world needs to know English to publish a scientific paper.
I am familiar with the "Shanghai" ranking. They don't have a single Chinese on its staff - most from US and Western Europe (and an American director, no surprise). So, this research has nothing to do with "Shanghai" other than the misleading label.
If the "conventional" methodologies are so severely biased in favor of promoting US/UK colleges then that's not truly accurate representation of the quality of education around the world. If US public wants to believe that we have the best universities, heck, so be it. But is not based on any verifiable, objective data, other than a few self-serving "rankings."
I really take an issue that a quality research paper needs to be an English. Get out of your bubble already. In Germany, a professor gets a promotion and recognition for publishing a research paper in German, not English. Same in Russia, China and other countries. I never heard that English is the universal language for science, technology or medicine. When did that happen? Just because you live in the US this does not mean that the rest of the world needs to know English to publish a scientific paper.
I am familiar with the "Shanghai" ranking. They don't have a single Chinese on its staff - most from US and Western Europe (and an American director, no surprise). So, this research has nothing to do with "Shanghai" other than the misleading label.
If the "conventional" methodologies are so severely biased in favor of promoting US/UK colleges then that's not truly accurate representation of the quality of education around the world. If US public wants to believe that we have the best universities, heck, so be it. But is not based on any verifiable, objective data, other than a few self-serving "rankings."
Irvinecommuter
New member
Veronica said:
1) They actually don't. Most Nobel Laureates are tenured and department chairs so they stick around. Visiting professors by definition travel around but the primary professors do not. Universities are about both teaching and research, nobel laureates and leaders in their field help with both.
2) I feel like your experience in college shaped your view of what "American" colleges are like. There is a reason why people all over the world focus on coming to the US for education and especially higher education.
3) I didn't make the ruling on English...it's a fact
http://www.nature.com/ncb/journal/v3/n4/full/ncb0401_e89.html
http://www.molbiolcell.org/content/23/8/1399.full
4) So...you are the arbiter of what is a "good" college while everyone is biased? What exactly constitute as "verifiable, objective data?" How about:
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...er-of-international-students-studying-in-u-s/
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
So I guess we need a Common Good College Standard?
Irvinecommuter said:
Ok, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I have mine and you have yours. But a few points require my response:
1) that was not my experience at UCLA. The very few tenured profs I had (and again the emphasis is on very few) departed after they got a better offer, more $, or a Fed Gov opportunity. The true stars were picked up by other colleges since UCLA could not match a competing offer from a private school. Or they were on "sabbatical." Perhaps things have improved since I graduated, but with the budget cuts?I think not.
2) As a reminder, I am only talking about UCLA because it is No 12 on the infamous Best Universities in the World List. So yes, it is representative. Maybe U Kansas has a better system, but it is not at the top of the rankings you provided me (I guess Nobels do not go there).
2) It is delusional to think that people come here for the quality of our higher education. Gimmie a break. If that was the case, we would not have any British, German, or Russian students. Foreign students come here for better jobs, better opportunity, to escape government oppression, civil war and for many other reasons that have nothing to do with the quality of our education.
3) I am not even going to respond to this nonsense. Opinion editorials that have zero supporting evidence are not facts.
4) I don't dispute that foreign students are a huge business for US colleges/universities. But you have to understand, that it is a lot easier for a Brit to get into US college than for an American kid to get into a British Uni. Their admissions process is extremely hard. Same goes for universities in Germany, Russia and other countries. They are not exactly enthusiastic about our SATs and GPAs. There are many other factors, but we are getting off topic.
Look, if you don't want to challenge your kid, fine. I think that was the point of our debate anyway.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
Slightly off topic but isn't this also part of "quality" of education? The fact that you can raise your hand to challenge a professor without getting shot?Veronica said:
Maybe foreign students learn math so well because they are afraid of what happens if they don't.
irvinehomeshopper
Well-known member
IVC or bust.
furioussugar
New member
.
It's crazy how all of a sudden IUSD just throws in the towel and is letting the parents decide. They must have gotten bombarded with calls/complaints.
I am surprised that there is no exam for the student who didn't pass MSMAT and the parent can decide to do Algebra regardless of taking the 8th grade CC exam.
What are you going to do?
I am surprised that there is no exam for the student who didn't pass MSMAT and the parent can decide to do Algebra regardless of taking the 8th grade CC exam.
What are you going to do?
furioussugar
New member
.
Irvinecommuter
New member
It's just amazing to me...I guess I can't be surprised but it's just too bad.
No- I didn't see that.
But it is amazing how they don't have the child take the test to take Algebra in 7th grade (and more importantly geometry as an 8th grader), especially since even before CC, taking geometry as an 8th grader has a large % of kids not performing well.
I have a friend in another school district whose child took geometry as an 8th grader. They did poorly and have to repeat in 9th grade. It almost seems irresponsible to me that IUSD is letting that decision up to the parents.
But it is amazing how they don't have the child take the test to take Algebra in 7th grade (and more importantly geometry as an 8th grader), especially since even before CC, taking geometry as an 8th grader has a large % of kids not performing well.
I have a friend in another school district whose child took geometry as an 8th grader. They did poorly and have to repeat in 9th grade. It almost seems irresponsible to me that IUSD is letting that decision up to the parents.
Irvinecommuter
New member
abcd1234 said:
Seriously...it's 8th grade!
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
But the foreign kids are laughing at us.Irvinecommuter said:
furioussugar
New member
.
Irvinecommuter
New member
furioussugar said:
Wondering what those parents are going to do with the new SAT.