J
Janet_IHB
Guest
<p>Oops - sorry!</p>
<p>Not more important - maybe more jiggly?</p>
<p>Not more important - maybe more jiggly?</p>
NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
J
Janet_IHB
Guest
That, and just more "more"!
Laing_Lies_IHB
New member
<p>Tyler:</p>
<p>What's wrong with paying off your student loans until you're in your 50's. How's that any different from paying off a mortgage until you're that old (or even older). I think very few people have no debt, whatsoever. And, student loan debt is much better on your credit than consumer debt.</p>
<p>Anyway, again, just because someone finances a car doesn't mean they cannot afford to drive it. It perhaps means that they may not choose to pay it off because they have other opportunities to put their money in.</p>
<p>In fact, I just financed at car (and for your information - at 2.9%). My balance is less than $30,000. That's about two and a half weeks of work for me, however I choose not to pay it off since I'd rather use that money for other things (like my mortgage which is locked at 5.75%).</p>
<p>Life can be great. </p>
<p>What's wrong with paying off your student loans until you're in your 50's. How's that any different from paying off a mortgage until you're that old (or even older). I think very few people have no debt, whatsoever. And, student loan debt is much better on your credit than consumer debt.</p>
<p>Anyway, again, just because someone finances a car doesn't mean they cannot afford to drive it. It perhaps means that they may not choose to pay it off because they have other opportunities to put their money in.</p>
<p>In fact, I just financed at car (and for your information - at 2.9%). My balance is less than $30,000. That's about two and a half weeks of work for me, however I choose not to pay it off since I'd rather use that money for other things (like my mortgage which is locked at 5.75%).</p>
<p>Life can be great. </p>
IrvineRenter_IHB
New member
<em>" I think very few people have no debt, whatsoever."</em>
I don't.
I don't.
Laing_Lies_IHB
New member
<p> </p>
<p>No debt? Congratulations! </p>
<p>I guess I should have been a little more specific. I should have said that very few people who own homes and newer cars have no debt, whatsoever. Well, unless they're like my senior colleague who bought his house 20 years ago for $150K and has since paid it off. </p>
<p>However, great for you! So you are in a very good position to save for a downpayment. I, on the other hand, do have a lot of debt - no credit cards though - student loans, mortgage and that one auto loan. Yup....if not for the darn mortgage....soon to be mortgages, I, too, could be debt free. </p>
<p>No debt? Congratulations! </p>
<p>I guess I should have been a little more specific. I should have said that very few people who own homes and newer cars have no debt, whatsoever. Well, unless they're like my senior colleague who bought his house 20 years ago for $150K and has since paid it off. </p>
<p>However, great for you! So you are in a very good position to save for a downpayment. I, on the other hand, do have a lot of debt - no credit cards though - student loans, mortgage and that one auto loan. Yup....if not for the darn mortgage....soon to be mortgages, I, too, could be debt free. </p>
Mendelssohn_IHB
New member
tourbillion,
<em><strong>"I think you are making the argument that because Chinese worship a mass murder (Mao), it is OK for Japan to worship theirs as well." </strong>
</em>That is NEVER my view and I was not even trying to make an argument.
I have been reading this blog for only a couple months and I notice that almost every time a subject related to car or people's buying habits came up, you'd mention why you and your friends refused to buy Japanese cars because of what the Japanese did in WWII. I just sense that you seemed to carry that negative emotion...something I do understand and can relate.
I don't think Japanese people worship mass-murderers. I think they feel sorry for the young men they send to die in the war.
I don't even think the mass-murder happened during that war was in their plan back then when they started the war. Horrible things happen when a group of young men is send to a foreign place to fight for something they don't even complete understand. War tends to bring out the worst in men. That is my view.
Also, my impression is that historically, Chinese people suffer far more at the hand of their own.
The Chinese government needs to demand an apology and compensation from the Japanese government if Chinese people feel so strongly about it. So far, the communist government seems only good at talking.
Not buying Japanese goods won't have any effect on Japanese government or their economy. BTW, I heard that nowadays Japanese goods are not even Japanese made anymore.
Are you sure your beloved German car is 100% German?
<em><strong>"I think you are making the argument that because Chinese worship a mass murder (Mao), it is OK for Japan to worship theirs as well." </strong>
</em>That is NEVER my view and I was not even trying to make an argument.
I have been reading this blog for only a couple months and I notice that almost every time a subject related to car or people's buying habits came up, you'd mention why you and your friends refused to buy Japanese cars because of what the Japanese did in WWII. I just sense that you seemed to carry that negative emotion...something I do understand and can relate.
I don't think Japanese people worship mass-murderers. I think they feel sorry for the young men they send to die in the war.
I don't even think the mass-murder happened during that war was in their plan back then when they started the war. Horrible things happen when a group of young men is send to a foreign place to fight for something they don't even complete understand. War tends to bring out the worst in men. That is my view.
Also, my impression is that historically, Chinese people suffer far more at the hand of their own.
The Chinese government needs to demand an apology and compensation from the Japanese government if Chinese people feel so strongly about it. So far, the communist government seems only good at talking.
Not buying Japanese goods won't have any effect on Japanese government or their economy. BTW, I heard that nowadays Japanese goods are not even Japanese made anymore.
Are you sure your beloved German car is 100% German?
Nude:You consider what I'm doing shoving my values at others, I consider it giving arguments for something I think. But it comes off as "shoving my values" merely because I'm saying something that differs from the apparent group-think of this site. If I made these comments at say Housing Panic they would've been almost ignored. My mistake was that I thought the group on this blog was of a similar breed, they aren't.
Janet: I wasn't calling you a liar, rather pointing out that when you get a 1% rate its because you are paying more on the car.If you happened to pay cash you would've most likely got a rebate of sorts on the car.Maybe its possible that they were only giving a promotion on financing, but usually you can get X% rate or X amount of dollars off on the car. And like I said before I don't know your situation, but with Californians if it smells fishy it usually is.
Laing_Lies: Its not much different than paying off a mortgage for 30 years, but I have no interest in taking out a 30 year mortgage either. And I still think in general when people finance a car its because they can't truly afford it. What are the counter examples, people that use the money on speculative investments? Also, sure sometimes you have to go in debt. I have student loan debt, I also financed my car! But I will never do the latter again, I only did it this time because I just got out of graduate school a couple of years ago and decided to move back to CA. But I got the cheapest car that did what I needed (paid 16k on a Chevy), but I wanted a Saab 9-3 (The cheaper one, which is a pretty good value in my mind).
Irvine Allergy: Everyone is a tool of the advertising industry to some degree.And sure the people that purchase a Toyota over a cheaper alternative that is equivalent in quality are falling for the same sort of marketing, but the price difference isn't as great there. A equivalent Hyundai, GM etc to a Toyota is usually only 1-3k cheaper. Anyhow, if you have more money than you know what to do with then spending it on whatever is no big deal. But I feel that when you are younger (< 40) and trying to build wealth (and by wealth I don't mean having a bunch of fancy toys) it doesn't make much sense to spend money on luxury brands.
"one of the primary reasons the rich get richer and the poor get poorer is art and other useables."
I don't believe this for one second. Sure maybe you can make good on your "investments" in art, I wouldn't know. I could careless about owning fine art. But to suggest its the
PRIMARY reason the rich get richer?? As if investing in the markets or business, is for us folks with no class. But artwork seems like a bad investment to me, the valuation seems far too subjective, its far too illiquid etc. I like to own assets that not only appreciate but also have some sort of cash flow (dividends etc).
Janet: I wasn't calling you a liar, rather pointing out that when you get a 1% rate its because you are paying more on the car.If you happened to pay cash you would've most likely got a rebate of sorts on the car.Maybe its possible that they were only giving a promotion on financing, but usually you can get X% rate or X amount of dollars off on the car. And like I said before I don't know your situation, but with Californians if it smells fishy it usually is.
Laing_Lies: Its not much different than paying off a mortgage for 30 years, but I have no interest in taking out a 30 year mortgage either. And I still think in general when people finance a car its because they can't truly afford it. What are the counter examples, people that use the money on speculative investments? Also, sure sometimes you have to go in debt. I have student loan debt, I also financed my car! But I will never do the latter again, I only did it this time because I just got out of graduate school a couple of years ago and decided to move back to CA. But I got the cheapest car that did what I needed (paid 16k on a Chevy), but I wanted a Saab 9-3 (The cheaper one, which is a pretty good value in my mind).
Irvine Allergy: Everyone is a tool of the advertising industry to some degree.And sure the people that purchase a Toyota over a cheaper alternative that is equivalent in quality are falling for the same sort of marketing, but the price difference isn't as great there. A equivalent Hyundai, GM etc to a Toyota is usually only 1-3k cheaper. Anyhow, if you have more money than you know what to do with then spending it on whatever is no big deal. But I feel that when you are younger (< 40) and trying to build wealth (and by wealth I don't mean having a bunch of fancy toys) it doesn't make much sense to spend money on luxury brands.
"one of the primary reasons the rich get richer and the poor get poorer is art and other useables."
I don't believe this for one second. Sure maybe you can make good on your "investments" in art, I wouldn't know. I could careless about owning fine art. But to suggest its the
PRIMARY reason the rich get richer?? As if investing in the markets or business, is for us folks with no class. But artwork seems like a bad investment to me, the valuation seems far too subjective, its far too illiquid etc. I like to own assets that not only appreciate but also have some sort of cash flow (dividends etc).
nirvinerealtor_IHB
New member
<p>Janet,</p>
<p>I once had to make the same decision like yours. I ended up fixing the car, then something else went wrong... It ended up costing me much more money.</p>
<p>With all the suggestion here, have you reached a decision?</p>
<p>I once had to make the same decision like yours. I ended up fixing the car, then something else went wrong... It ended up costing me much more money.</p>
<p>With all the suggestion here, have you reached a decision?</p>
J
Janet_IHB
Guest
<p>Thanks NIR,</p>
<p>We have to make this decision twice: immediately on the BMW (mine), and very soon on the Mercedes (husbands).</p>
<p>His car is 20 years old (not exactly a status symbol)! It still runs though, because he treats it like a baby. However, its time has long-since passed - so we will get what we can on a trade-in before it's too late. That's the car we'd like to replace with one of the choices I mentioned earlier (a "luxury" sedan from 3-5 years ago, and decent mileage on it). We see that as a "sweet spot". Most of these vehicles still have up to 3 years or 100,000 (less where they are today) mile warrantys left.</p>
<p>As I mentioned earlier, we stopped by BMW too. They had 2004 X5s with 45,000 miles on them going for $35,000. Ours is older and has more miles, but was overall much better-equipped. We bought ours new - so we know its history. We think if we get a good rebuilt or recycled engine, it might go for many more years. We are still not certain of the numbers - people are researching it (and I'd like to check out the referral made by (I think) Graphrix.). The damage is done, even if I sold it as-is I'd be out in the neighborhood of $10,000. So the question really is: is the car worth the additional investment?</p>
<p>The answer to your question is YES - the suggestions have been extremely helpful. </p>
<p>We have to make this decision twice: immediately on the BMW (mine), and very soon on the Mercedes (husbands).</p>
<p>His car is 20 years old (not exactly a status symbol)! It still runs though, because he treats it like a baby. However, its time has long-since passed - so we will get what we can on a trade-in before it's too late. That's the car we'd like to replace with one of the choices I mentioned earlier (a "luxury" sedan from 3-5 years ago, and decent mileage on it). We see that as a "sweet spot". Most of these vehicles still have up to 3 years or 100,000 (less where they are today) mile warrantys left.</p>
<p>As I mentioned earlier, we stopped by BMW too. They had 2004 X5s with 45,000 miles on them going for $35,000. Ours is older and has more miles, but was overall much better-equipped. We bought ours new - so we know its history. We think if we get a good rebuilt or recycled engine, it might go for many more years. We are still not certain of the numbers - people are researching it (and I'd like to check out the referral made by (I think) Graphrix.). The damage is done, even if I sold it as-is I'd be out in the neighborhood of $10,000. So the question really is: is the car worth the additional investment?</p>
<p>The answer to your question is YES - the suggestions have been extremely helpful. </p>
J
Janet_IHB
Guest
<p>NIR, </p>
<p>I know what you mean about the additonal things going wrong.</p>
<p>That's the real wild-card.</p>
<p>I know what you mean about the additonal things going wrong.</p>
<p>That's the real wild-card.</p>
Irvine Allergy Dr_IHB
New member
"But it comes off as "shoving my values" merely because I'm saying something that differs from the apparent group-think of this site. If I made these comments at say Housing Panic they would've been almost ignored. My mistake was that I thought the group on this blog was of a similar breed, they aren't."
Tyler -
Your problem is that instead of offering useful or sound advice, you are just being judgmental and deprecating to those posting on this forum. On top of that, you seem to be somewhat hypocritical too, considering you financed your car (I know of many reliable used cars that you could get for $10k, for example) and you considered a Saab instead of a Chevy (by what metric is a Saab better than a Chevy?).
BTW, what kind of "breed" do you find the people on this forum to be, exactly?
Tyler -
Your problem is that instead of offering useful or sound advice, you are just being judgmental and deprecating to those posting on this forum. On top of that, you seem to be somewhat hypocritical too, considering you financed your car (I know of many reliable used cars that you could get for $10k, for example) and you considered a Saab instead of a Chevy (by what metric is a Saab better than a Chevy?).
BTW, what kind of "breed" do you find the people on this forum to be, exactly?
effenheimer_IHB
New member
I wonder if I'm the "in" kind.
graphrix_IHB
New member
<p>Saab = Chevy. Same car different stickers.</p>
tourbillon_IHB
New member
Mendelsson
Let me see, the PM goes to a temple where the convicted mass murderers are worshiped as gods. In japan, it is viewed as a nice political move, in Germany, the same thing will put you behind bars for 15 years. The mass murder japanese did in Asia was systematic. There was a policy called "kill all, burn all, take all". It was the official policy of Japanese government in WW2, and to this day, they never apologized for it. It is a crime against human, not just Chinese, just like what Nazi did to Jewish people is a crime against humanity. I grow up in Europe and US, and I was only 2 years old when I left China so I don't really care what Chinese government do or don't do.
My M3 is 100% German, made in Munich, Germany. My wife's MB is 76% German with the rest from US and France. Japan already lost the entire consumer electronics industry, witnessed the downward spiral of Sony, the author of that pathetic book called "japan can say no". Another ten years, who knows. Anyway, this is a housing forum, so I will keep quite from now on.
Let me see, the PM goes to a temple where the convicted mass murderers are worshiped as gods. In japan, it is viewed as a nice political move, in Germany, the same thing will put you behind bars for 15 years. The mass murder japanese did in Asia was systematic. There was a policy called "kill all, burn all, take all". It was the official policy of Japanese government in WW2, and to this day, they never apologized for it. It is a crime against human, not just Chinese, just like what Nazi did to Jewish people is a crime against humanity. I grow up in Europe and US, and I was only 2 years old when I left China so I don't really care what Chinese government do or don't do.
My M3 is 100% German, made in Munich, Germany. My wife's MB is 76% German with the rest from US and France. Japan already lost the entire consumer electronics industry, witnessed the downward spiral of Sony, the author of that pathetic book called "japan can say no". Another ten years, who knows. Anyway, this is a housing forum, so I will keep quite from now on.
tourbillon_IHB
New member
Graphrix
I think Saab used GM's chassis (Epsilon?) but did they own tuning. Sort of a sports tuned version of a Chevy with a lot of interior upgrades. It is not much more expensive than a Camry so maybe there is some reason behind buying a Saab.
I think Saab used GM's chassis (Epsilon?) but did they own tuning. Sort of a sports tuned version of a Chevy with a lot of interior upgrades. It is not much more expensive than a Camry so maybe there is some reason behind buying a Saab.
effenheimer_IHB
New member
platform shares don't bug me all that much. If anything, they improve parts availability on the aftermarket.
momopi_IHB
New member
Tourbillon:
Like it or not most countries that exist today, is the result of victorious tribes wiping out their neighbors and not apologizing to anyone. The Yamatos wiped out Emishi, Vietnamese wiped out Champa, Malays conquered Orang Asli, Hokkien immigrants wiped out lowland Taiwanese Aborigines (or chase them into the mountains), and so on. If everybody wants to go back and settle old scores, we'd have WW 3 on a truly global scale. I look forward to a time when nobody cares about WW2 any more and East Asia evolves toward EU-like union, when I can freely travel across borders and live wherever I like without complicated paperwork.
==============
I personally drive a Honda Accord with ~250k miles on it. I've had to replace the radiator, but still running on stock engine and transmission. I'd also note that Honda cards tend to be pretty hard on the breaks, so don't be cheap and buy good quality break pads and rotors.
Like it or not most countries that exist today, is the result of victorious tribes wiping out their neighbors and not apologizing to anyone. The Yamatos wiped out Emishi, Vietnamese wiped out Champa, Malays conquered Orang Asli, Hokkien immigrants wiped out lowland Taiwanese Aborigines (or chase them into the mountains), and so on. If everybody wants to go back and settle old scores, we'd have WW 3 on a truly global scale. I look forward to a time when nobody cares about WW2 any more and East Asia evolves toward EU-like union, when I can freely travel across borders and live wherever I like without complicated paperwork.
==============
I personally drive a Honda Accord with ~250k miles on it. I've had to replace the radiator, but still running on stock engine and transmission. I'd also note that Honda cards tend to be pretty hard on the breaks, so don't be cheap and buy good quality break pads and rotors.
Irvine Allergy:
I never said "Saab is better than a Chevy". But the Saab 9-3 sport 2.0T has a MSRP of $26.5k while the closet car I know from Chevy is the the Malibu Maxx 5 door LTZ which has a MSRP of $24.5k (I'm not sure if Saab's share a platform with a Chevy etc or not). But with the Saab you get 3-years of free maintenance, so the real price difference is maybe around $1,000 (But the safety rating on the car is much better, so that seems worth it). I don't see how I'm being a hypocritical here, the Saab I was looking at was priced well and there is not another car out there with the same features that is much less in price. Also, I've never had good experiences with used cars but also I purchased the car in PA and not everything there is made for CA emissions.
Also, although I haven't explicitly given advice one can easily inferior advice from what I said: Use the money you would otherwise spend on luxury brands to build wealth. This isn't a unique notion nor is my position not held by many others (Just look at best seller's like Millionaire Next Store). I was actually surprised to see the reaction on this forum to the notion that purchasing luxury brands is wasting your money.
And when I talk about "breed" etc I don't intend to insult anybody. Different blogs etc attract different sorts of members, I just had the wrong idea about what sort of people that participate in this community (What seems like "trolling" in one community is normal conversation in another). I certainly won't bother making any arguments/statements against conspicuous consumption (Or purchasing "Luxury" brands, which you may or may not consider such) in this forum again.
Lastly, the breed of people on this forum? Well your typical Californians - Conspicuous Consumers.
I never said "Saab is better than a Chevy". But the Saab 9-3 sport 2.0T has a MSRP of $26.5k while the closet car I know from Chevy is the the Malibu Maxx 5 door LTZ which has a MSRP of $24.5k (I'm not sure if Saab's share a platform with a Chevy etc or not). But with the Saab you get 3-years of free maintenance, so the real price difference is maybe around $1,000 (But the safety rating on the car is much better, so that seems worth it). I don't see how I'm being a hypocritical here, the Saab I was looking at was priced well and there is not another car out there with the same features that is much less in price. Also, I've never had good experiences with used cars but also I purchased the car in PA and not everything there is made for CA emissions.
Also, although I haven't explicitly given advice one can easily inferior advice from what I said: Use the money you would otherwise spend on luxury brands to build wealth. This isn't a unique notion nor is my position not held by many others (Just look at best seller's like Millionaire Next Store). I was actually surprised to see the reaction on this forum to the notion that purchasing luxury brands is wasting your money.
And when I talk about "breed" etc I don't intend to insult anybody. Different blogs etc attract different sorts of members, I just had the wrong idea about what sort of people that participate in this community (What seems like "trolling" in one community is normal conversation in another). I certainly won't bother making any arguments/statements against conspicuous consumption (Or purchasing "Luxury" brands, which you may or may not consider such) in this forum again.
Lastly, the breed of people on this forum? Well your typical Californians - Conspicuous Consumers.
tourbillon_IHB
New member
momopi
This is a point I am rather tired of making, but I guess I will do it one more time. EU came about because Germany apologized for its past war crime and made compensation for that crime. If Germany is still worshiping Hitler as a god, I would like to see how many European countries are willing to forget the past. It is a crime to try to make excuses for Hitler's war crime in Germany, in Japan, it is a national sport. East Asia will never find peace as long as Japan is still worshiping these convicted mass murderers in that temple. You can't seriously be comparing what happened thousands years ago to a tragic event just sixty years ago. We are suppose to be civilized. Furthermore, by your argument, it will be perfectly all right if China should decide to nuke Japan back into the stone age tomorrow simply because Rome wiped out Carthage so many years ago. By your argument, why should anyone care about the suffering of the people in Sudan or the massacre in Bosnia, the same thing took place in ancient times too. This is the weakest argument I have ever heard. The flexibility of your morality shocks me.
This is a point I am rather tired of making, but I guess I will do it one more time. EU came about because Germany apologized for its past war crime and made compensation for that crime. If Germany is still worshiping Hitler as a god, I would like to see how many European countries are willing to forget the past. It is a crime to try to make excuses for Hitler's war crime in Germany, in Japan, it is a national sport. East Asia will never find peace as long as Japan is still worshiping these convicted mass murderers in that temple. You can't seriously be comparing what happened thousands years ago to a tragic event just sixty years ago. We are suppose to be civilized. Furthermore, by your argument, it will be perfectly all right if China should decide to nuke Japan back into the stone age tomorrow simply because Rome wiped out Carthage so many years ago. By your argument, why should anyone care about the suffering of the people in Sudan or the massacre in Bosnia, the same thing took place in ancient times too. This is the weakest argument I have ever heard. The flexibility of your morality shocks me.
tourbillon_IHB
New member
tyler
I do think buying luxury goods outside one's mean is not wise. But if it is within one's mean, why not? After all, we can not take anything with us when the maker/god/nature decides it is our time.
I do think buying luxury goods outside one's mean is not wise. But if it is within one's mean, why not? After all, we can not take anything with us when the maker/god/nature decides it is our time.