ABC123_IHB
New member
Village of Columbus has a Whole Foods. Does that mean it's superior to any Irvine Company developments?
Bench Mark Pricing in Irvine
- Thread starter bkshopr_IHB
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Mcdonna1980_IHB
New member
BK, I'm a little confused. How are OH and LC going to be more prestigious if they are going to develop them with the sardine cans you speak for future new home projects?
bkshopr_IHB
New member
[quote author="High Gravity" date=1241569052][quote author="bkshopr" date=1241567944]. Branding needs stores such as Gelsons, Trader Joes, Whole Foods, Roger Garden, Smith and Hawken and etc.</blockquote>
I used to live across the street from Gelsons and Roger Gardens; I enjoy shopping at Walmart much more than either of those places. I have found much more expired or near expired food at Gelsons than at Walmart. I also like paying .99 cents for a dozen ball point pens at Walmart rather than $2.50 for one at Newport Stationers.</blockquote>
We all secretly shop at Walmart in disguise.
I used to live across the street from Gelsons and Roger Gardens; I enjoy shopping at Walmart much more than either of those places. I have found much more expired or near expired food at Gelsons than at Walmart. I also like paying .99 cents for a dozen ball point pens at Walmart rather than $2.50 for one at Newport Stationers.</blockquote>
We all secretly shop at Walmart in disguise.
High Gravity_IHB
New member
[quote author="acpme" date=1241566097]In all seriousness though, despite how un-PC it sounds, most cities and residents will fight tough and nail to avoid having a Walmart open nearby because low prices equals lower income shoppers that come into the community. Residents in Orange and nearby VP were strongly opposed to the Walmart opening at the Mall of Orange (now the Village) in the mid-90s. The arguments were the usual anti-Walmart reasoning - traffic, congestion, harm to local small businesses, low paying jobs -- but those of us who live in that ritzier Orange hills, VP, and AH, know there was an uglier sentiment behind for the opposition.</blockquote>
If the fear is dark-skinned people and appalacian whites, I think their more likely direction of migration is from north to south rather than south to north simply based on the location of their natural habitat. Therefore, as Irvine is gradually demographically destroyed, the superior people will probably make their last stand in the southern areas.
If the fear is dark-skinned people and appalacian whites, I think their more likely direction of migration is from north to south rather than south to north simply based on the location of their natural habitat. Therefore, as Irvine is gradually demographically destroyed, the superior people will probably make their last stand in the southern areas.
ABC123_IHB
New member
If the kids at Laguna Crossing are forced to go to Woodbridge or worse yet a school in the Saddleback Valley Unified School District, will it still be considered prestigious? What happens when Irvine is forced to build tons more low-income units and those students end up going to the same schools as the students from the prestigious communities?
bkshopr_IHB
New member
[quote author="SoCal78" date=1241568660]Ok, if Orchard Hills is so ritzy then why does it have a McDonald's? With this being one of the only locations I can think of in north or east Irvine, you're going to attract a lot of people to it - people that may not be wearing spectacles and top hats. If Trader Joe's is considered good branding -- remember the only located north of the 5 in Irvine is closer to PS than OH... at Sand Cyn & Irvine Blvd. Also, are you saying that a Walmart shopper who doesn't have a few extra bucks to spend on a bottle of shampoo is going to pay for toll road expenses to drive into Portola... and then what... there's nothing to see so they keep on going. Remember, Portola Parkway does not connect between Irvine and Foothill Ranch.</blockquote>
McD is actually a good brand associated with good management while Walmart has too much negative publicity such as hiring illegals and exploitation of oversea child labor imports.
McD is actually a good brand associated with good management while Walmart has too much negative publicity such as hiring illegals and exploitation of oversea child labor imports.
SoCal78_IHB
New member
[quote author="High Gravity" date=1241570134]
If the fear is dark-skinned people and appalacian whites, I think their more likely direction of migration is from north to south rather than south to north simply based on the location of their natural habitat. Therefore, as Irvine is gradually demographically destroyed, the superior people will probably make their last stand in the southern areas.</blockquote>
I think you are absolutely correct. You are probably familiar with the term "white flight". The whites I know, use it when referring to migrating in a southern direction in OC, specifically - south of the Y.
If the fear is dark-skinned people and appalacian whites, I think their more likely direction of migration is from north to south rather than south to north simply based on the location of their natural habitat. Therefore, as Irvine is gradually demographically destroyed, the superior people will probably make their last stand in the southern areas.</blockquote>
I think you are absolutely correct. You are probably familiar with the term "white flight". The whites I know, use it when referring to migrating in a southern direction in OC, specifically - south of the Y.
acpme_IHB
New member
[quote author="SoCal78" date=1241568660]Ok, if Orchard Hills is so ritzy then why does it have a McDonald's? With this being one of the only locations I can think of in north or east Irvine, you're going to attract a lot of people to it - people that may not be wearing spectacles and top hats. If Trader Joe's is considered good branding -- remember the only located north of the 5 in Irvine is closer to PS than OH... at Sand Cyn & Irvine Blvd. Also, are you saying that a Walmart shopper who doesn't have a few extra bucks to spend on a bottle of shampoo is going to pay for toll road expenses to drive into Portola... and then what... there's nothing to see so they keep on going. Remember, Portola Parkway does not connect between Irvine and Foothill Ranch.</blockquote>
You're right, the Foothill Ranch Walmart doesn't have very good access so it doesn't external draw that a more centrally-located city would face. It's probably why the city and residents didn't fight it tooth and nail. The only outsiders invading that area come from the canyons, Irvine, and MV. Visit the Walmart in Orange and you'll find a very different demographic. The bus stop on Tustin Ave is far busier than I ever remembered before the Walmart moved in.
Walmart isn't as ubiquitous in central/south OC and I'm sure they would love to have a bigger presence. When they want to move into a town, they know they have to fight their negative reputation and often conduct surveys or commish academic research to pitch a community on the economic benefits of their supercenters. No doubt these communities have played a part in keeping the monster at bay. I don't think it's by chance that if you look at a map of Walmart locations in OC, there seems to be a wall of resistance. From the north, the line is head at Orange in the west and Foothill Ranch in the east. On the west, nothing east of the 55. From the south, no presence north of Laguna Niguel. Along the coast, they are held back at HB in the north and you have to drive all the way to San Clemente to find another.
Not coincidentally, those are the areas of desirability we all talk about here -- some varying opinions of course, but it seems like the general sentiment where people find most desirable are east of the 55, as far north as parts of Orange/Tustin, up to the eastern edges of the Irvine Ranch.
You're right, the Foothill Ranch Walmart doesn't have very good access so it doesn't external draw that a more centrally-located city would face. It's probably why the city and residents didn't fight it tooth and nail. The only outsiders invading that area come from the canyons, Irvine, and MV. Visit the Walmart in Orange and you'll find a very different demographic. The bus stop on Tustin Ave is far busier than I ever remembered before the Walmart moved in.
Walmart isn't as ubiquitous in central/south OC and I'm sure they would love to have a bigger presence. When they want to move into a town, they know they have to fight their negative reputation and often conduct surveys or commish academic research to pitch a community on the economic benefits of their supercenters. No doubt these communities have played a part in keeping the monster at bay. I don't think it's by chance that if you look at a map of Walmart locations in OC, there seems to be a wall of resistance. From the north, the line is head at Orange in the west and Foothill Ranch in the east. On the west, nothing east of the 55. From the south, no presence north of Laguna Niguel. Along the coast, they are held back at HB in the north and you have to drive all the way to San Clemente to find another.
Not coincidentally, those are the areas of desirability we all talk about here -- some varying opinions of course, but it seems like the general sentiment where people find most desirable are east of the 55, as far north as parts of Orange/Tustin, up to the eastern edges of the Irvine Ranch.
bkshopr_IHB
New member
[quote author="Mcdonna1980" date=1241569792]BK, I'm a little confused. How are OH and LC going to be more prestigious if they are going to develop them with the sardine cans you speak for future new home projects?</blockquote>
Topography and slopes between homes and view terraces are extra room between sardine cans. That is a plus over the gridded flat land neighborhoods. Curving streets also are $. View is $$. Elevated above your neighbors is extra $$$.
Topography and slopes between homes and view terraces are extra room between sardine cans. That is a plus over the gridded flat land neighborhoods. Curving streets also are $. View is $$. Elevated above your neighbors is extra $$$.
bkshopr_IHB
New member
[quote author="acpme" date=1241570803][quote author="SoCal78" date=1241568660]Ok, if Orchard Hills is so ritzy then why does it have a McDonald's? With this being one of the only locations I can think of in north or east Irvine, you're going to attract a lot of people to it - people that may not be wearing spectacles and top hats. If Trader Joe's is considered good branding -- remember the only located north of the 5 in Irvine is closer to PS than OH... at Sand Cyn & Irvine Blvd. Also, are you saying that a Walmart shopper who doesn't have a few extra bucks to spend on a bottle of shampoo is going to pay for toll road expenses to drive into Portola... and then what... there's nothing to see so they keep on going. Remember, Portola Parkway does not connect between Irvine and Foothill Ranch.</blockquote>
You're right, the Foothill Ranch Walmart doesn't have very good access so it doesn't external draw that a more centrally-located city would face. It's probably why the city and residents didn't fight it tough and nail. Walmart isn't as ubiquitous in central/south OC and I'm sure they would love to have a bigger presence. When they want to move into a town, they know they have to fight their negative reputation and often conduct surveys or commish academic research to pitch a community on the economic benefits of their supercenters. No doubt these communities have played a part in keeping the monster at bay. I don't think it's by chance that if you look at a map of Walmart locations in OC, there seems to be a wall of resistance. From the north, the line is head at Orange in the west and Foothill Ranch in the east. On the west, nothing east of the 55. From the south, no presence north of Laguna Niguel. Along the coast, they are held back at HB in the north and you have to drive all the way to San Clemente to find another.</blockquote>
Walmarts traditionally are located in ghetto neighborhoods. Westminster, Anaheim, Buena Park, and etc. Is there one in Irvine?
You're right, the Foothill Ranch Walmart doesn't have very good access so it doesn't external draw that a more centrally-located city would face. It's probably why the city and residents didn't fight it tough and nail. Walmart isn't as ubiquitous in central/south OC and I'm sure they would love to have a bigger presence. When they want to move into a town, they know they have to fight their negative reputation and often conduct surveys or commish academic research to pitch a community on the economic benefits of their supercenters. No doubt these communities have played a part in keeping the monster at bay. I don't think it's by chance that if you look at a map of Walmart locations in OC, there seems to be a wall of resistance. From the north, the line is head at Orange in the west and Foothill Ranch in the east. On the west, nothing east of the 55. From the south, no presence north of Laguna Niguel. Along the coast, they are held back at HB in the north and you have to drive all the way to San Clemente to find another.</blockquote>
Walmarts traditionally are located in ghetto neighborhoods. Westminster, Anaheim, Buena Park, and etc. Is there one in Irvine?
bkshopr_IHB
New member
[quote author="ABC123" date=1241569539]Village of Columbus has a Whole Foods. Does that mean it's superior to any Irvine Company developments?</blockquote>
Not superior yet but a competition that TIC has under estimated. Legacy's location and shear size is a huge threat to TIC's retail monopoly. Legacy has big box brick and mortar tenants that TIC could not accommodate on its precious land.
Not superior yet but a competition that TIC has under estimated. Legacy's location and shear size is a huge threat to TIC's retail monopoly. Legacy has big box brick and mortar tenants that TIC could not accommodate on its precious land.
irvine_home_owner_IHB
New member
I'm still trying to apply the BagOChips theory...
So if a 2-story 2250sft house would cost $863k based on $375/sft... TIC would instead build a 3-story 3010sft house and sell it for $863k netting $287/sft... 33% more for the same cost?
Or is there some other math I'm not taking into account?
If TIC were to sell 3000+sft homes in Laguna Crossing for $863k a pop... I would think they would move... but is this really a $375/sft benchmark?
So if a 2-story 2250sft house would cost $863k based on $375/sft... TIC would instead build a 3-story 3010sft house and sell it for $863k netting $287/sft... 33% more for the same cost?
Or is there some other math I'm not taking into account?
If TIC were to sell 3000+sft homes in Laguna Crossing for $863k a pop... I would think they would move... but is this really a $375/sft benchmark?
bkshopr_IHB
New member
[quote author="reason" date=1241524412][quote author="bkshopr" date=1241236886]IHO,
You pissed me off and I just eliminated all possibilities of frontal 3 cars garages from my drawing board. There will be no 3 car frontal garages and 3 car driveways in all future communities. This includes all move up communities as well.</blockquote>
Hahaha! Now that's going alittle too far. How about designing one house on the block with a 3 car garage. Just for IHO.</blockquote>
Yes, It is called the local firestation.
You pissed me off and I just eliminated all possibilities of frontal 3 cars garages from my drawing board. There will be no 3 car frontal garages and 3 car driveways in all future communities. This includes all move up communities as well.</blockquote>
Hahaha! Now that's going alittle too far. How about designing one house on the block with a 3 car garage. Just for IHO.</blockquote>
Yes, It is called the local firestation.
bkshopr_IHB
New member
[quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1241571413]I'm still trying to apply the BagOChips theory...
So if a 2-story 2250sft house would cost $863k based on $375/sft... TIC would instead build a 3-story 3010sft house and sell it for $863k netting $287/sft... 33% more for the same cost?
Or is there some other math I'm not taking into account?
If TIC were to sell 3000+sft homes in Laguna Crossing for $863k a pop... I would think they would move... but is this really a $375/sft benchmark?</blockquote>
We all just have to wait and see. If products move quickly then raise prices in phase 2 to fill the greed cookie jar.
So if a 2-story 2250sft house would cost $863k based on $375/sft... TIC would instead build a 3-story 3010sft house and sell it for $863k netting $287/sft... 33% more for the same cost?
Or is there some other math I'm not taking into account?
If TIC were to sell 3000+sft homes in Laguna Crossing for $863k a pop... I would think they would move... but is this really a $375/sft benchmark?</blockquote>
We all just have to wait and see. If products move quickly then raise prices in phase 2 to fill the greed cookie jar.
irvine_home_owner_IHB
New member
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1241571096]Walmarts traditionally are located in ghetto neighborhoods. Westminster, Anaheim, Buena Park, and etc. Is there one in Irvine?</blockquote>
Hehe... there are places that some people would classify as "ghetto" in Irvine.
There was much protest when the first Target opened up... now we have 4 within 10 miles of each other... and 3 Costcos.
The lone Sam's Club could semi-qualify as our Walmart.
Hehe... there are places that some people would classify as "ghetto" in Irvine.
There was much protest when the first Target opened up... now we have 4 within 10 miles of each other... and 3 Costcos.
The lone Sam's Club could semi-qualify as our Walmart.
bkshopr_IHB
New member
[quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1241571738][quote author="bkshopr" date=1241571096]Walmart traditionally are located in ghetto neighborhoods. Westminster, Anaheim, Buena Park, and etc. Is there one in Irvine?</blockquote>
Hehe... there are places that some people would classify as "ghetto" in Irvine.
There was much protest when the first Target opened up... now we have 4 within 10 miles of each other... and 3 Costcos.
The lone Sam's Club could semi-qualify as our Walmart.</blockquote>
Targets demographic is white collar and so is Costco's white label. Costco's Fendi, Burberry and Cartier in the glass case are subliminal marketing. Walmart puts condoms in glass case to prevent shoplifting.
Hehe... there are places that some people would classify as "ghetto" in Irvine.
There was much protest when the first Target opened up... now we have 4 within 10 miles of each other... and 3 Costcos.
The lone Sam's Club could semi-qualify as our Walmart.</blockquote>
Targets demographic is white collar and so is Costco's white label. Costco's Fendi, Burberry and Cartier in the glass case are subliminal marketing. Walmart puts condoms in glass case to prevent shoplifting.
bkshopr_IHB
New member
Here are some retails that will hurt the community image.
Walmart
Food 4 Less
Stater Bros
Goodwill
Hometown Buffet
Superior Market
Yoshinoya
Walmart
Food 4 Less
Stater Bros
Goodwill
Hometown Buffet
Superior Market
Yoshinoya
acpme_IHB
New member
one of my friend's family owns a louisana fried chicken franchise on crenshaw and slauson. within a block or two there's also KFC, popeyes, church's, chicken n waffles, and roosters golden chicken. another louisana fried chicken in half a mile away. also not exactly the nicest neighborhood. but damn their fried chicken is good.
irvine_home_owner_IHB
New member
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1241574968]Here are some retails that will hurt the community image.
Walmart
Food 4 Less
Stater Bros
Goodwill
Hometown Buffet
Superior Market
Yoshinoya</blockquote>
One would think that a 99 Ranch would be on that list... yet Irvine has 2.
I would actually rate Hometown Buffet higher than Souplantation... how SP charges more for less is beyond me.
Walmart
Food 4 Less
Stater Bros
Goodwill
Hometown Buffet
Superior Market
Yoshinoya</blockquote>
One would think that a 99 Ranch would be on that list... yet Irvine has 2.
I would actually rate Hometown Buffet higher than Souplantation... how SP charges more for less is beyond me.
ABC123_IHB
New member
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1241571992]
Walmart puts condoms in glass case to prevent shoplifting.</blockquote>
So does CVS which has about a million locations in Irvine
<a href="http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/shopping_blog/2009/04/protests-over-condoms-under-lock-and-key-at-cvs-spreads-to-la.html">Ok I lied, they only lock up condoms in certain neighborhoods</a>
Walmart puts condoms in glass case to prevent shoplifting.</blockquote>
So does CVS which has about a million locations in Irvine
<a href="http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/shopping_blog/2009/04/protests-over-condoms-under-lock-and-key-at-cvs-spreads-to-la.html">Ok I lied, they only lock up condoms in certain neighborhoods</a>