Behind the Orange Curtains

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<blockquote>I?m gonna see him pushing Graphito on a swing and I?m gonna? ?punch him in the head? for not dragging his kid to Little Tokyo instead.</blockquote>


ROFL! Best thing you have said in this thread. Yes, you do get to punch me in the head, and damn it... I'm scared you might get to.



I'm going to make some quick points, and maybe expand on it further, because I like where this is going now. Yes, I am cherry picking.



<blockquote>Other than bk? you can see that those of us who grew up in the LA ?hood? don?t prefer to go back there. Don?t diss us for it? you haven?t lived where we have.</blockquote>


Just because you grew up in LA, doesn't mean that those who grew up in OC never saw the shady sides of life. I will show you where you can find OVC, but I won't go to show you it by the exact location to find it, I will drop you off and point you in the right direction, even if it was less than half a mile from where I grew up. I can show you a bunch of other sh*thole areas in OC that will make you remember you LA days. Plus, I lived in Oakland for three years, and you think LA is scary... LOL. I have more "crazy" stories in the three years I lived there than the 15 years I have been exploring LA.



And... no one, especially me is dissing you. In fact, I respect you even more for having grown up in LA and sharing your experience. I also gave you props for taking your kids to LA, when I do recognize what a PITA that can be. I remember going to my aunt's house in Torrance, and asking "Are we there yet?". Come on man, we are not hating, just trying to have a discussion, which we can all learn from, especially me. You're a dad, I'm not, nuff said. I don't know sh*t and it might be a reason for me not to have kids.



<blockquote>Like I was alluding too? ?culture? is relative. I bet a bunch of comp nerds sitting around playing World of Warcraft get just as much ?cultural? satisfaction as others get out of a museum visit. And for some? education IS culture (heck? most Asians in Irvine think that way). In the last 25 years? what do you think has made the biggest impact on society? Hint: It?s not hanging at some art exhibit.</blockquote>


It's more than just the art in the museum, it is taking them to the Disney concert hall to understand why the math skills they are gaining from learning how to read sheet music to play those dreaded piano lessons can come into effect. You feel me? If you refuse to go DT, then that also means no Laker games, or USC football games, which are required events growing up in SoCal. I remember my dad taking me to the Forum for a Lakers game when I was 8 years old. I do remember he warned me not to stare at anyone there in what he called Inglewatts (he grew up in LA when Watts was known as the sh*thole), but somehow I survived and the car wasn't stolen, but it is a memory that I will never... ever forget.



<blockquote>And yeah? OC beaches are pretty good. As much as I liked bodysurfing at ?Dondo and Manhattan Beach? Newport waves were way more fun (and cleaner). There were just more surfboarders here than LA and they have no respect for bodysurfing purists like myself (no fins, no bodyboards? just me and the waves).</blockquote>


I totally agree, but the kids at the LA beaches tend to be tourists and more laid back. The next time I see you, ask me about the time I got a knife pulled on me in the water at "The Creek" because I supposedly cut him off, even though I was clearly in front. I would rather go down for an OC wave than I would a LA wave, the LA waves are not worth it.



And, like I said, don't take it personal. I know you are good guy, and I am sure you are a great dad, but we are all different and learning from each other. It's all good if you get high off stucco, and I prefer the old school plaster. It's just an opinion, and mine are not what the ?2 they once were.
 
[quote author="graphrix" date=1241020924]And, like I said, don't take it personal. I know you are good guy, and I am sure you are a great dad, but we are all different and learning from each other. It's all good if you get high off stucco, and I prefer the old school plaster. It's just an opinion, and mine are not what the ?2 they once were.</blockquote>
Not at all... I just want to present the counterpoint to your Graphrant since others may not. In the end... I prefer a balanced presentation of all opinions (as do you)... it's probably the only reason why I continue to respond to bk on the whole frontal garage thing.



And since Shaq left... Laker games just don't appeal as much. Sorry... I lost my respect for Kobe for both his personal and professional issues... and I hate to admit this... but I've always been a long-time Clipper fan (except for Odom), it was so great when they played in Anaheim (stupid Sterling).
 
<blockquote>Graphito</blockquote>


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
For the last 50 years folks grew up in LA and running away to the suburb for sanctuary has been a common practice. The initial suburbs that provided the "good life" consisted of good school, jobs, and safety were the new master planned communities of Buena Park, La Mirada, Garden Grove, Costa Mesa and Anaheim. As soon these neighborhoods became exploited the same folks fled to the next suburbs like Tustin, Irvine, and Mission Viejo.



This is the reason LA became a sprawling metropolis. I have very little respect for cowards who abandoned their past and treated their childhood neighborhood as disposable objects. I am an involved citizen who wants our society to be a better one. I do go back to my hood and my mother and friends who lived there for the last 40 years. I am not afraid of my past. I deal with them and also introduce my daughter to the environment.



I take my daughter to the Mission and serve dinners to the homeless. She donates her Christmas gifts to the needy children. She attends museums and learned about arts. I feel sad for those who went to college and are only involved in their very limited trade and made only impact on materialistic goods instead of improving other people lives.



I disagree with some of the comments regarding a person with an interest in art has made little contribution in society. I for one am such. I contributed to the creation of a place Irvine where you live.



I am on this board not because I want to help reader to save money or be a better home shopper. My art background has given me a very different perspective about life and the way that I view our environment. Both Graph and Cayci are both interested in art as well. I am glad to see a balance of geek and arts. Without art Apple would not have been successful.



I befriended with many on this board and I am privileged. However, I have very little interest in pursuing rapport with the ignorant.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1241053575]I have very little respect for <strong>cowards</strong> who abandoned their past and treated their childhood neighborhood as disposable objects.

</blockquote>
Okay... since you've chosen to be forward... let's do this:



Maybe it's the fact that english isn't your first language, that you don't understand posting inflammatory words on the Internet is usually bad form or your idea of a joke isn't working correctly... but you really need to be careful of what you say and what words you are using to describe people.

<blockquote>

I am an involved citizen who wants our society to be a better one. I do go back to my hood and my mother and friends who lived there for the last 40 years. I am not afraid of my past. I deal with them and also introduce my daughter to the environment.

</blockquote>
As much respect as everyone has for you and your knowledge on this forum... it's not cool to generalize other people based on your own experiences. No matter how "involved" you think people should be or how you want to make the world "kumbaya"... if someone doesn't want to go back to their rundown, gang-infested roots... why fault them for it? What do you want us cowards to do... give you a Nobel Peace Prize?

<blockquote>

I take my daughter to the Mission and serve dinners to the homeless. She donates her Christmas gifts to the needy children. She attends museums and learned about arts. I feel sad for those who went to college and are only involved in their very limited trade and made only impact on materialistic goods instead of improving other people lives.

</blockquote>
Okay Mr. Ghandi... you fail to realize that some people have to work very hard in their "limited trade" just to improve their own lives. People struggle every day to survive and not everyone has the time or money to do what we would all "like" to do. First and foremost, I need to make sure my kids get fed and get their education... if that means I need to stay working in my "limited trade" then so be it. Seriously... you are sounding like a snob.

<blockquote>

I disagree with some of the comments regarding a person with an interest in art has made little contribution in society.

</blockquote>
Who said people who are interested in art have made little contribution to society? What has been said is that it's just not the interest in arts that makes the world go around.

<blockquote>

I for one am such. I contributed to the creation of a place Irvine where you live.

</blockquote>
Good job. Should I start writing checks to you? I helped create the Internet, when are you going to send me royalties?

<blockquote>

I am on this board not because I want to help reader to save money or be a better home shopper.

</blockquote>
Wow... that can't be true... what happened to "improving other people lives"?

<blockquote>

My art background has given me a very different perspective about life and the way that I view our environment. Both Graph and Cayci are both interested in art as well. I am glad to see a balance of geek and arts. Without art Apple would not have been successful.

</blockquote>
And without geek... Apple would never exist in the first place.

<blockquote>

I befriended with many on this board and I am privileged. However, I have very little interest in pursuing rapport with the <strong>ignorant</strong>.</blockquote>
There you go again. You're not going to make many friends by touting how privileged you are and how ignorant everyone else is.



Now granted, my responses will probably irritate you and some of your followers... but I just wanted to demonstrate to you how easy it is to take remarks and throw them out of context. I actually know that you are a very humble person with a huge amount of knowledge, culture and experience... but sometimes... the way you phrase your responses... you come off as elitist. Sure... maybe I do too but I can always use the excuse that I'm not cultured enough (or that I'm ignorant).



Just remember... a coin always has two sides.
 
<blockquote>I don?t know sh*t and it might be a reason for me not to have kids</blockquote>


I just thought I'd chime in as someone who has gone on a lot of adventures with kids in tow. Kids are a direct reflection of their parents. Most of the time, a child's behavior is a reaction to his or her caregiver. Ever watch the Supernanny? This shows perfectly exhibits how one individual can draw a completely different reaction from a child than another.



Don't let IHO dissuade you from parenthood. Rest assure Graph, you can live a life of excitement and travel as a parent. I know from experience that if you want take a child on a more grown up adventure, the success of the outing lies in your presentation. When my grandmother used to drive us around through LA never was their a dull moment. There was always some song or game involved in the drive. Like who could be the first to spot the graffiti cat face drawing on the LA river on the ride home. My brother and I never were a pain to her on our outings because she was FUN and ENGAGING!



And I'm not just talking about day trips to the museums in LA. You can do exciting things with children if you go about it the right way. From 2002 to 2003 I embarked in quite a journey in moving my family to Florence Italy. The kids were 4 and 6 at the time. We took them everywhere. Rarely did the whine or become a hindence to the trip. But make no mistake the good outcome of this trip and all others we've done was due to our preparation and our attitudes. For example, we spent months piror to our Italy trip reading books, watching movies teaching the kids about where their were going. We enrolled them in a international school in Florence so they could make local friends.



I like to think my efforts have paid off. I do see an 'anything is possible' mentality in them which would probably would be lacking if not for my risk taking.
 
That sounds great, but incomplete and not very realistic, you only mention the nice parts of your experience (and I don't a have reason to doubt that) *but* you skipped the challenging times that you went through when doing international travel with young kids as opposed to do it with adults, for example and this is from my own observations: kids need a restroom nearby which sometimes is impossible to get, sometimes they only want their favorite foods and they don't trade for something else, they need to have their 3 meals on time *everyday* you can't ask them to wait for you, during their waking hours they can be in their car seats for 2 hours max. after that they get bored, restless, but if you are driving who can entertain them?, "are we there yet? are where yet?", you can't always stop to stretch your legs you could be driving around mountains with no resting areas, or you don't know where is safe to stop because you are in totally new area for you, public transportation is only for adults, is unfriendly for kids and very uncomfortable, etc. etc.



Yes, you need to prepare, that's not even an option, you have to do it, but sometimes besides all the preparation that you can do, nothing assures you a 100% successful result, as you imply, you forgot the random events, and a kid can be your "weakest link" when the unplanned happens: rain, cold temperatures.



I don't say is impossible, is much easier as they become older and they can take care of themselves, actually, they enjoy more and have deeper understanding of wherever you are, like What is the relevance of visiting Florence, Who was Leonardo Davinci? Why this place is important?



I didn't even mention what happens when kids get sick, you need to act super fast, get a physician, get the right medicine, get to the ER, as somebody told me with real, field experience with kids health: don't take chances with the health of children, they can die very quickly, they just go in a blink of an eye, they are so fragile.



Certainly you took risks.
 
[quote author="Mcdonna1980" date=1240993945]On second thought, nevermind. Everyone needs to fess up right now. We all know we are all glued to the IHB 24/7 an never get out anywhere! LOL</blockquote>
Yup, I'll admit I'm a post whore...hell, look at my post count. I've really taken the other forums I used to frequent off the radar screen because I enjoy this one the most.
 
It's good to see that I'm not the only parent who has had their share of challenges with kids.



And my posts were never meant to scare Graph or anyone from having kids... just to temper the rants about us sheltering parents who never let our kids see daylight.



Now excuse me while I chain my kid back to the bed.
 
[quote author="graphrix" date=1241020924]Plus, I lived in Oakland for three years, and you think LA is scary... LOL. I have more "crazy" stories in the three years I lived there than the 15 years I have been exploring LA.

</blockquote>


Oaktown is the real hood...Graph where did you live in Oakland?
 
LOL, I have said for many years that parents are the WORST marketers for parenthood.



The collective statements made by parents have me totally convinced that if it weren't for our animal instincts and hormones (ie, things we have little control over) our population would die out.
 
[quote author="caycifish" date=1241127958]LOL, I have said for many years that parents are the WORST marketers for parenthood.



The collective statements made by parents have me totally convinced that if it weren't for our animal instincts and hormones (ie, things we have little control over) our population would die out.</blockquote>


Ah, sorry, Cayci. Don't mean to discourage you. You know like they say - it's work but it's <em>worth </em>it. Knowing what I know now, I would still do it again in a heartbeat, absolutely.
 
[quote author="Rocker" date=1241096865]That sounds great, but incomplete and not very realistic, you only mention the nice parts of your experience (and I don't a have reason to doubt that) *but* you skipped the challenging times that you went through when doing international travel with young kids as opposed to do it with adults, for example and this is from my own observations: kids need a restroom nearby which sometimes is impossible to get, sometimes they only want their favorite foods and they don't trade for something else, they need to have their 3 meals on time *everyday* you can't ask them to wait for you, during their waking hours they can be in their car seats for 2 hours max. after that they get bored, restless, but if you are driving who can entertain them?, "are we there yet? are where yet?", you can't always stop to stretch your legs you could be driving around mountains with no resting areas, or you don't know where is safe to stop because you are in totally new area for you, public transportation is only for adults, is unfriendly for kids and very uncomfortable, etc. etc.



Yes, you need to prepare, that's not even an option, you have to do it, but sometimes besides all the preparation that you can do, nothing assures you a 100% successful result, as you imply, you forgot the random events, and a kid can be your "weakest link" when the unplanned happens: rain, cold temperatures.



I don't say is impossible, is much easier as they become older and they can take care of themselves, actually, they enjoy more and have deeper understanding of wherever you are, like What is the relevance of visiting Florence, Who was Leonardo Davinci? Why this place is important?



I didn't even mention what happens when kids get sick, you need to act super fast, get a physician, get the right medicine, get to the ER, as somebody told me with real, field experience with kids health: don't take chances with the health of children, they can die very quickly, they just go in a blink of an eye, they are so fragile.



Certainly you took risks.</blockquote>


No, no, no,no! It is exactly this attitude that keeps parent's from venturing outside the HOA amenities! I can honestly tell you traveling around with my kids was not that big of a deal. You know people in Italy have children. Of course you have to feed them and let them use the potty. I didn't think I had to point that out. And Italy has both of those things, doctors too.

Was my trip without trials or tribulations? NO But, the issues we had had to do with being in a foreign country. For example, figuring out how to use public transportation. Not my kids. I realize doing something like this is not the norm. It possible to go on adventures with chidren and have it be a success, though. It's all in how you as a parent approach it and the attitude and way you are with children.
 
He He, don't preach to the converted!



I'm sure you recognized some of your experiences in what I wrote, because I've been doing international travel with my kids *all the time*, at least once a year, how do I know? because all the logistics arrangements that we do, probably I was too detailed or graphic for the sensible eyes of some of the people here that don't have kids, but I like to consider all the possibilities when traveling with kids, I'm sorry if I disturb you, :-)), my intention was to be fact based, don't shoot the messenger, aren't we in a fact based blog?



I came to work and live in this country 9 years ago, and when I came here, my oldest one was 2.5 years old, I like to think that today I'm still traveling with kids :-)



I've been going back to my home country at least once a year, we travel with all the family the 1,300 miles of separation between Irvine and my hometown, sometimes we arrive to a different city to start our family vacations and we move our way up or down until we arrive to our 2nd home.



Also, I've been traveling in this country *with kids*, which is super easy with all the commodities that are here.
 
Here's a chance to get out and experience a little bit if culture behind the orange curtain. <a href="http://www.cityoffullerton.com/residents/community_events/fullerton_market.asp">Fullerton Market</a> happens Thrusday evenings until October from 4-8:30pm. Live bands play from 6:30pm on. And they have BABYSITTING. See press release below for details:



The popular weekly outdoor ?Fullerton Market? returns to downtown Fullerton Thursday, April 2, offering farm-fresh produce, arts and crafts, handmade apparel, live entertainment, food booths, and activities for young people



The market, located in the Downtown Plaza on Wilshire Avenue, between Harbor Boulevard and Pomona Avenue, will be open from 4-8:30 p.m. Thursdays through October, when it will close for the winter.



Admission is free to the market, which is in its 18th year of operation.



Fullerton Market ?creates an atmosphere similar to a European-style open air market, where shoppers meet their neighbors and get to know their community a little better, as well as find lots of bargains,? said Ashley Glass, special events coordinator for the city.



In addition to the produce vendors, the market will feature a live band each Thursday. The bands, which will range from rock to country, will perform from 6:30-8:30 p.m.



Along with the entertainment, the market will feature a <strong>beer and wine garden for adults </strong>and a <strong>Kids? Korner, which will offer special activities to keep children happy while their parents shop.</strong> During warm weather, the <strong>Plaza?s pop jet fountain provides a great cooling-off spot for youngsters </strong>who are welcome to wear their swim suits.



Applications are still available for local farmers, artisans, merchants and community organizations wishing to operate booths in the market.



The market is open to certified farmers, artists and crafters, Fullerton businesses, nonprofit organizations and food vendors. Applications must be completed at least seven days prior to the desired date of participation in the market.



Booth applications and further information may be obtained at the Fullerton Museum Center, 301 N. Pomona Ave.



Applications may also be obtained on market days at the information booth.



Parking for the market may be found in any of the free downtown lots or in the parking structures at Wilshire (enter from Harbor); Lemon Street and Chapman Avenue; and in the Transportation Center on Pomona and Santa Fe Avenue.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1241053575]For the last 50 years folks grew up in LA and running away to the suburb for sanctuary has been a common practice. The initial suburbs that provided the "good life" consisted of good school, jobs, and safety were the new master planned communities of Buena Park, La Mirada, Garden Grove, Costa Mesa and Anaheim. As soon these neighborhoods became exploited the same folks fled to the next suburbs like Tustin, Irvine, and Mission Viejo.



This is the reason LA became a sprawling metropolis. I have very little respect for cowards who abandoned their past and treated their childhood neighborhood as disposable objects. I am an involved citizen who wants our society to be a better one. I do go back to my hood and my mother and friends who lived there for the last 40 years. I am not afraid of my past. I deal with them and also introduce my daughter to the environment.



I take my daughter to the Mission and serve dinners to the homeless. She donates her Christmas gifts to the needy children. She attends museums and learned about arts. I feel sad for those who went to college and are only involved in their very limited trade and made only impact on materialistic goods instead of improving other people lives.



I disagree with some of the comments regarding a person with an interest in art has made little contribution in society. I for one am such. I contributed to the creation of a place Irvine where you live.



I am on this board not because I want to help reader to save money or be a better home shopper. My art background has given me a very different perspective about life and the way that I view our environment. Both Graph and Cayci are both interested in art as well. I am glad to see a balance of geek and arts. Without art Apple would not have been successful.



I befriended with many on this board and I am privileged. However, I have very little interest in pursuing rapport with the ignorant.</blockquote>
I'm curious, in what way were those early nice neighborhoods of BP, LM, GG, and CM exploited that caused people to flee to the next suburb towns?



You bring up a great point BK, most of us here are very fortunate and we don't give back enough to the community. Maybe we should do an IHB volunteer event as a way to give back to the community.
 
[quote author="Mcdonna1980" date=1244543724]Here's a chance to get out and experience a little bit if culture behind the orange curtain. <a href="http://www.cityoffullerton.com/residents/community_events/fullerton_market.asp">Fullerton Market</a> happens Thrusday evenings until October from 4-8:30pm. Live bands play from 6:30pm on. And they have BABYSITTING. See press release below for details:



The popular weekly outdoor ?Fullerton Market? returns to downtown Fullerton Thursday, April 2, offering farm-fresh produce, arts and crafts, handmade apparel, live entertainment, food booths, and activities for young people



The market, located in the Downtown Plaza on Wilshire Avenue, between Harbor Boulevard and Pomona Avenue, will be open from 4-8:30 p.m. Thursdays through October, when it will close for the winter.



Admission is free to the market, which is in its 18th year of operation.



Fullerton Market ?creates an atmosphere similar to a European-style open air market, where shoppers meet their neighbors and get to know their community a little better, as well as find lots of bargains,? said Ashley Glass, special events coordinator for the city.



In addition to the produce vendors, the market will feature a live band each Thursday. The bands, which will range from rock to country, will perform from 6:30-8:30 p.m.



Along with the entertainment, the market will feature a <strong>beer and wine garden for adults </strong>and a <strong>Kids? Korner, which will offer special activities to keep children happy while their parents shop.</strong> During warm weather, the <strong>Plaza?s pop jet fountain provides a great cooling-off spot for youngsters </strong>who are welcome to wear their swim suits.



Applications are still available for local farmers, artisans, merchants and community organizations wishing to operate booths in the market.



The market is open to certified farmers, artists and crafters, Fullerton businesses, nonprofit organizations and food vendors. Applications must be completed at least seven days prior to the desired date of participation in the market.



Booth applications and further information may be obtained at the Fullerton Museum Center, 301 N. Pomona Ave.



Applications may also be obtained on market days at the information booth.



Parking for the market may be found in any of the free downtown lots or in the parking structures at Wilshire (enter from Harbor); Lemon Street and Chapman Avenue; and in the Transportation Center on Pomona and Santa Fe Avenue.</blockquote>


I'm going to check this out tonight. I'll report back with a review for y'all. A Doors cover band is playing tonight from 6:30 -8:30 pm. Many of the restaurants and bars have extended happy hours for all you heavy drinkers here.
 
The kids and I are hitting up another community festival. This time in San Clemente. The street festival in downtown San Clemente is happening today until 7pm. We going to catch some waves and hopefully pick up some yummy food at the festival. It's free.



<a href="http://www.downtownsanclemente.com/events/index.htm">More info here</a>
 
[quote author="roundcorners" date=1240630145]bltserv, remember watching the Lakers at the Forum? Clippers at the Arena? Thanks for the input everyone! What I really want to know is, why are the singles here in Irvine? SC, if you are lurking, why did you move to Irvine after attending USC?</blockquote>
I lived up in Westwood when I went to UCLA in the mid/late 90s because there was no way it'd even think about commuting. Why are there singles in Irvine? Well, I grew up most of my life in Huntington Beach, Costa Mesa, and Irvine. I moved to Irvine back in 2001 and have lived there since then except for the 2 years I lived in Vegas after finishing up my MBA at USC. I moved to Irvine for a few reasons...moved in with my ex fiance, to get closer to work, and wanted to live in a newer area. I actually commuted to USC Mon-Thurs for the second year of my MBA program (I went to the OC campus by John Wayne Airport for the first year) but had my schedule arranged in such a way that I would hardly ever hit any traffic.
 
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