Behind the Orange Curtains

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[quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1240886681][quote author="bkshopr" date=1240886309]Street smart can not be taught and many sheltered kids with book smart will not be able to function in a real world outside of the suburb. Street smart can only be learned through life experiences. Soon or later you have to let your kids go and many kids from the "burb" are not ready to face the real world away from home. This is one of the biggest reason for the large Asian student body at UCI.</blockquote>
So where do we visit in LA so that my kids can pick up this unteachable "street smart"?



I would rather have the real world function more like the suburb... it's why people move to suburbs.



How about the best of both worlds... let's just bring more "culture" behind the Orange Curtain? Oh wait... some places are already like that (which we also avoid).</blockquote>


First start by driving a block west of the 55 fwy. Second, walk to the Sears end of South Coast Plaza. I will post more advance courses later. Graduation day is when you can walk down Santee. If you do not know where Santee is then start at step one posted.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1240887409]...walk to the Sears end of South Coast Plaza...</blockquote>


I went down that section of the mall once, accidentally.



<img src="http://www.bookofjesus.org/images/8o1os69h11jnpr4f33x8.gif" alt="" />
 
[quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1240877129]Hehe... that's not really living in LA... try Carson, Wilmington or East LA for "culture".</blockquote>


First, I think you are taking this too personally, and a little too seriously. Chilllll Winston. I can just picture you on the other side of the keyboard going all K-Fed on me with your Irvine prizide, peep that crackercakes, how do ya like me now!



Second, my point, which you somehow missed completely because you had a stucco overdose from the weekend and too many trips to the tot lot, is that you shouldn't avoid LA because it is scary. You do take your kids there, and you plan on expanding that as they get older, that is my point and that is awesome.



There are some parts of East LA that I would take my kids, and there are parts I would show them to avoid and explain why and how you can tell what to avoid. They need to be aware of it. Also, my point is not that I would be walking around 5th and Wall mingling with the residents there to find out who has the best smack and show my kids how to properly shoot the smack from a needle that I borrowed from a guy who goes by "Peanut". I would take my 12-16 year old there to scare the sh*t out of them and tell them if they don't do well in school you could end up like one the thousands of have made their home on the sidewalk, and the corner lot of 5th and Wall comes at a premium for having the most crack stockpile.



Carson... come on man, what happens when your kid wants to go to the Steve Miller Band concert at the Home Depot center? What if they make a wrong turn and end up in Compton? What would be better? Them having the knowledge to get the hell out because you showed them how to recognize danger, or stop and ask for directions from the guy out in front of the liquor store smoking on a funny smelling cigar?



Wilmington? Seriously, who the hell goes there? The only culture you will find there is how to properly drink a 40 out of a paper bag. Lets be serious, there are bad places you can stumble on, but Wilmington is not one of them.



<blockquote>It's all relative depending on what you call "culture". Sure... some of the places you listed are great... but to actually get to them is not really safe. There are parts of downtown... where I wouldn't want to be walking, let alone my wife and kids.



"Hey kids... this man is called a 'bum'... he doesn't have a place to live and has probably went doody in his pants which is why you are holding your noses."

"Oh... and this is called a 'mugger', please be quiet while I empty my wallet for him."</blockquote>


I think your crime stats are derived from the past, and are not current. <a href="http://www.economist.com/world/unitedstates/displaystory.cfm?story_id=13414116">From the Economist</a> (yeah, I really am a nerd and read that magazine. It's got culture, yo!).

<em>

All that has changed dramatically. Los Angeles, which the rapper Ice-T dubbed ?home of the body bag? in 1991, is now <strong>one of the best-policed cities in America. Last year it recorded only a shade more violent crime per person, and much less property crime, than smug Portland in Oregon. Even with more than one in ten people out of a job, <u>the drop in crime continues.</u></strong></em>



As Cayci and I walked around Little Tokyo and the Jewelry District, we both noticed and commented on the police presence on foot around every other corner. Made me feel just as safe as walking around Irvine. No joke, I felt that safe.



I'm going to Portland this weekend, thank gawd I don't have kids, it sure doesn't sound like a safe place to take kids to. If I don't start posting by the following weekend, please call the LAPD to send out a proper search team.



<blockquote>Seriously, when you do have kids and realize you are now responsible for a life other than your own... the "safety" issue will hit you. When I was 14 years old... I was walking down PCH... one of the busiest streets in LA suburbia and I got jumped in BROAD DAYLIGHT (10:30am if I remember correctly) by 3 juvenile delinquents. They took $10 out of my wallet and left me with a bloody face. I had to jaywalk across PCH to find a phonebooth and the cop car sitting at the gas station didn't do a thing. Did it keep me from walking around my 'hood? No... because that was "normal" to me. Will I subject my kid to that? Hell no! Because that shouldn't be "normal" for anyone. If that's what you call sheltering... then I'm Mr. Shelter Skelter.</blockquote>


Sorry dude, but that is normal everywhere. Crime happens not just in the worst places but when you least expect it. While I never got beat up for money, I did have a couple of friends who did in good parts of OC. Funny, I have never heard of anyone ever having problems like that in LA until you posted your experience, and BK's. Remember, I'm the guy who had a Rambo like knife swung at me in OC. So, maybe I am a bit biased in my statistics.



I bet though after your experience of getting mugged for $10 that you learned how to avoid that situation again... didn't you? While your kids should never have to go through that, it would be good to teach them the skill you learned from it in how to avoid it. You can teach street smarts, or you learn them the hard way. I would choose to teach my kids rather than have them learn the hard way, sometimes that lesson will require a field trip.



Come Mr. Shelter Skelter, you need to lighten up, live a little, and let your kids live a little. They will eventually, whether you like it or not.
 
[quote author="graphrix" date=1240897325]First, I think you are taking this too personally, and a little too seriously. Chilllll Winston. I can just picture you on the other side of the keyboard going all K-Fed on me with your Irvine prizide, peep that crackercakes, how do ya like me now!

</blockquote>
Whoah... hold the phone... it was you who started RANTing... don't swing if you can't duck!

<blockquote>

Second, my point, which you somehow missed completely because you had a stucco overdose from the weekend and too many trips to the tot lot, is that you shouldn't avoid LA because it is scary. You do take your kids there, and you plan on expanding that as they get older, that is my point and that is awesome.

</blockquote>
Yeah... but my point is that many parents have valid reasons why they don't want to. Safety is one, and for others, it's also distance. As much Rhino Penis as you think traffic is, imagine it with kids ("Are we there yet?").

<blockquote>

There are some parts of East LA that I would take my kids, and there are parts I would show them to avoid and explain why and how you can tell what to avoid. They need to be aware of it. Also, my point is not that I would be walking around 5th and Wall mingling with the residents there to find out who has the best smack and show my kids how to properly shoot the smack from a needle that I borrowed from a guy who goes by "Peanut". I would take my 12-16 year old there to scare the sh*t out of them and tell them if they don't do well in school you could end up like one the thousands of have made their home on the sidewalk, and the corner lot of 5th and Wall comes at a premium for having the most crack stockpile.

</blockquote>
Bullsnots. Tell you what, on one of the birthdays of your offspring, let's take a trip down to where I grew up and we'll see how many life lessons you'll impart on Graph Jr:



"You're 6 years old now son... this is what a gangbanger looks like. Now let's go watch them jump in their newest member."



I'm sure you'll be running for your SUV quicker than you can say "Poh-poh!" (if it's still there).

<blockquote>

I think your crime stats are derived from the past, and are not current. <a href="http://www.economist.com/world/unitedstates/displaystory.cfm?story_id=13414116">From the Economist</a> (yeah, I really am a nerd and read that magazine. It's got culture, yo!).

<em>

All that has changed dramatically. Los Angeles, which the rapper Ice-T dubbed ?home of the body bag? in 1991, is now <strong>one of the best-policed cities in America. Last year it recorded only a shade more violent crime per person, and much less property crime, than smug Portland in Oregon. Even with more than one in ten people out of a job, <u>the drop in crime continues.</u></strong></em>



As Cayci and I walked around Little Tokyo and the Jewelry District, we both noticed and commented on the police presence on foot around every other corner. Made me feel just as safe as walking around Irvine. No joke, I felt that safe.

</blockquote>
I'm not sure if a place that requires police on every other corner sounds safe to me.

<blockquote>

I bet though after your experience of getting mugged for $10 that you learned how to avoid that situation again... didn't you?

</blockquote>
Was already doing so... remember... busy street (Pacific Coast Highway), daytime (10:30am).

<blockquote>

While your kids should never have to go through that, it would be good to teach them the skill you learned from it in how to avoid it. You can teach street smarts, or you learn them the hard way.

</blockquote>
What chapter in "street smarts" school shows you the magic moves to outrun 3 guys... especially when one of them clocks you in the face from behind? Man... how many armchair "street smart" posters do we have on this board?

<blockquote>

I would choose to teach my kids rather than have them learn the hard way, sometimes that lesson will require a field trip.

</blockquote>
Like I said... name the day... and we're going back to the South Bay. I'll even show them the spot where I fell on the ground after the kid hit me upside my nose.

<blockquote>

Come Mr. Shelter Skelter, you need to lighten up, live a little, and let your kids live a little. They will eventually, whether you like it or not.</blockquote>
Again... easy to say in your current "I'm my own man" state of existence.



Theoretically it's what we all want to do... but not so easy once you're in my world... unless you're BK... he seems to be able to master this whole best of both worlds stuff effortlessly.
 
This conversation could go on forever since it has taken on the direction of parenting style. I can't help but think of my own brothers when I read all this. The four of them were "exposed" to a lot of hard stuff growing up... mainly around the Hawaiian Gardens and La Habra area. Today - one is dead. One has been in out and out prison his entire life. The third one has struggled with drug addiction for years and never held a steady job... his kids are grown now and want nothing to do with him. Only one of the four has become semi-successful and a good husband & father but only after a very tumultuous youth. We were raised separately. I'm an OC native and have visited LA area infrequently. I actually thank God for my parents raising me in the bubble that is Yorba Linda. I got to visit the rough side just enough to know how grateful I was for what I had but not enough that I was absorbed in the wrong kind of crowd for long. I decided to stay here in OC for life with the hopes of giving my kids a similar experience to what I had. (I suppose different rules might also apply if you're talking about raising boys versus girls.) Sure, it's good to show your kids how other people live but I think this is a great place to raise a family.
 
Everything requires balance. I do not need to subject myself to a postage stamp lot yet my daughter goes to a good school. I do not pay HOA or Mello Roo but I have access to any pool and facility in Irvine. I am close enough to Rowland Height and only 8 minutes from Irvine. I visit LA weekly but sleep in a nice OC neighborhood.



I sell my knowledge I learned from LA to the naives of OC. I take my family to enjoy lower cost entertainments in LA from the higher salary I make in OC. I like the comfort of a bubble but venture out frequently for fresh air. I grew up among gangsters but leverage my background in getting into the best educational institution and launched my career.



Learn to swim with the sharks is an important lesson in life: Gang bangers during my youth and corporate executives now. They are the same. One group has bars over their cell and the other has wrought iron over their windows.



The ghetto and culture of Chinatown were important lessons that helped me to create what Chinese home buyers want in their homes and communities.



In my former ghetto neighborhood the graffiti houses had a lot of charm with porches but caged in with bars. I looked beyond the cover and recognized the good bones and aesthetic. IMO they have more dignity than the Ticky tacky boxes in Stuccoville.



No one is successful without taking risk and that applies to both parents and kids.
 
Some of my fondest childhood memories are of times spent in LA. However, I was introduced to LA by someone who shared her experiences in LA with great passion and fondness. I grew up in Orange County but spent much time with my grandmother who lived in Burbank. My grandmother lived through the depression as a very poor child in Waco Texas. As a young lady, drawn in by Hollywood 's glitz and glamor, she ventured westward. My grandmother lived in Hollywood during it's golden years. She had a deep love with that city. Sometimes the funnest times with her were just in the car, driving past my grandmother's old haunts where she danced with Frank Sinatra and what not. I even went to a tea party at Bob Hope's residence once. Having someone in my life, growing up, with a passion for life was great gift.



I love many of the things LA has to offer. However, If you are someone that does not care for LA, I do not think you are uncultured or will raise sheltered children. For me the definition of "living behind the Orange Curtain" is more about a culture of people that are so wrapped up in work and their kids that they have little or no interests outside of those two things. There is world of things to experience in Orange County and elsewhere besides LA (Hello what about our neighbors to the south. My husband and I have been exploring San Diego for the last 3 years and love what we have found). However, so many have no passions, activities, interests outside of their daily routines of going to work, children, and watching TV. IMO, this is life behind the curtain if you can even call that a life.



If you want your children to grow up to be exceptional individuals, you need to inspire them with your own life.
 
BK - I'm curious. What has become of your old childhood friends from Chinatown? Do you keep in touch with them and how did their lives turn out? You are the definition of extraordinary.
 
I'm curious.... for those of you that expressed a dislike of LA, do you participate in an interesting sub-culture in Orange County(besides IHB)? What do you enrich your life with outside of you family obligations and work?
 
Socal as you have heard from Ms. BK I have just a few pictures from my childhood. My family was barely able to have food on the table and photos were too much a luxury that my family did not have.



I was a part of a notorious gang in Chinatown dealing with numerous shady activities. I have no contact with my gangster friends. I ditched school to shoplift underpants and tube socks that I did not want to burden my family financially with. I stole color pencils, glue and other school essentials for my school projects that my family could not afford to spend. I wore tennis shoes that other students threw away and used masking tape to cover the hole at the soles. I dragged my strides feeling ashamed others may see the tapes at the bottom of my shoes.



I could not write English composition about my summer vacation because I worked in the sweatshop every summer and all year long. My birthday present was a family outing to a Fedco and only allowed to look around. My family took toilet paper from public bathroom and used them at home. I did not have much to write about. I worked from 4-12 after school and never had time to study and do my homework. I hid in the public toilet stall to study for exams.



I rode a bus to see my world with my monthly pass because my family did not have a car. My time after school and weekends were mandatory for sweatshop. I had to ditch school to ride the bus and see neighborhoods and homes that I hoped one day that I can design and live in.



My first trip to Disneyland was during college. I was accepted to numerous colleges I could not afford to attend. I rarely would let an opportunity slip by me now.



I am accountable for providing too much for my daughter and I am trying to teach her about life outside the bubble.



The so called "Golden Mountain" was not what I expected when I immigrated to America.
 
I am grateful for my mother who is 87 now and she taught me this:



We are poor and we can adjust. We should not live beyond our mean. We do not take welfare from the government to better our lives. Education is important and it is the portal to a better life.



Happiness for her is simple. Picking avocados from my house and passing them out to her friends in Chinatown are her pleasure and that she knew that I have turned out well and did not disappointed her.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1240919352]I was a part of a notorious gang in Chinatown dealing with numerous shady activities.</blockquote>
Dang... you were a Triad?



Maybe it was your friends who beat me up and took my money years ago.



And maybe you know more about that incident behind Trabuco Grove... hmm... bkshootr?
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1240919352]I was a part of a notorious gang in Chinatown dealing with numerous shady activities.</blockquote>




Is this an accurate depiction of Chinese gang life?:



<a href="http://www.chineseplayground.com/sample.html">Bill Lee book excerpt</a>
 
[quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1240961066][quote author="bkshopr" date=1240919352]I was a part of a notorious gang in Chinatown dealing with numerous shady activities.</blockquote>
Dang... you were a Triad?



Maybe it was your friends who beat me up and took my money years ago.



And maybe you know more about that incident behind Trabuco Grove... hmm... bkshootr?</blockquote>


I stand behind my theory. It is not a suicide according to IPD.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1240965544][quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1240961066][quote author="bkshopr" date=1240919352]I was a part of a notorious gang in Chinatown dealing with numerous shady activities.</blockquote>
Dang... you were a Triad?



Maybe it was your friends who beat me up and took my money years ago.



And maybe you know more about that incident behind Trabuco Grove... hmm... bkshootr?</blockquote>


I stand behind my <strong>handiwork</strong>. It is not a suicide according to IPD.</blockquote>
Correction.
 
[quote author="High Gravity" date=1240962237][quote author="bkshopr" date=1240919352]I was a part of a notorious gang in Chinatown dealing with numerous shady activities.</blockquote>




Is this an accurate depiction of Chinese gang life?:



<a href="http://www.chineseplayground.com/sample.html">Bill Lee book excerpt</a></blockquote>


The era in the excerpt was during the 50's and 60's. My era of the 70's were different. The gangs of the to-days found legitimate channel of extortion and other methods of human trafficking. Back in the old days gang fought for turfs because there were only a few places of commercialism but todays Chinese gangs todays are spread out into various regions such as Chinatown, Monterey Park, Montebello, Alhambra, Temple City, Arcadia, Rowland Heights, Diamond Bar, Hacienda Heights, Torrance, Selpuveda, PV, Long Beach, Westminster, Cerritos, Fullerton, Anaheim and Irvine. The gangs are interested in places having high concentration of Chinese restaurants and markets where they can collect higher "retail tax".
 
[quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1240965814][quote author="bkshopr" date=1240965544][quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1240961066][quote author="bkshopr" date=1240919352]I was a part of a notorious gang in Chinatown dealing with numerous shady activities.</blockquote>
Dang... you were a Triad?



Maybe it was your friends who beat me up and took my money years ago.



And maybe you know more about that incident behind Trabuco Grove... hmm... bkshootr?</blockquote>


I stand behind my <strong>handiwork</strong>. It is not a suicide according to IPD.</blockquote>
Correction.</blockquote>


It is not cost effective for me to do handiwork anymore. I found a better way to extort money: Design houses with frontal garages. If I want to rob you then I design the 3rd car across the front. If I want you to become my eternal slave then I will add driveways fronting the garages. I am sorry about the PCH incident. I did not know that it would traumatize you for life and affect many generations in your household.
 
IHO,



Did I rob you on PCH in Harbor City, near the Chinese Restaurants in Lomita, by the Rolling Hills Shopping Center near AMC, The Ralphs by Anza/ South Torrance, the Cambodian district in LB by Kim Tar, or the nice area by Redondo/ Hollywood Riveria?
 
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