ICE or EV?
- Thread starter irvinehomeowner
- Start date
NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
This chart needs to be adjusted or fixed. It needs to subtract the vehicle sales from China. A country that heavily subsidizes locally built EV does not represent a meaningful data for the rest.
subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org
subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org
Toyota has no trouble selling cheaper Hi-Lux abroad:
Why not import to US? Blame the chicken tax!
All I want is a light truck at Corolla price...
For morekaos' next math lesson:
EV sales have not fallen, cooled, slowed or slumped. Stop lying in headlines.
Electric car sales keep rising, even as headlines would have you believe otherwise. Gas car sales, however, actually *are* down.electrek.co
<<
EV sales have not fallen, cooled, slowed or slumped.
[...]
Here’s what’s actually happening: Over the course of the last year or so, sales of battery electric vehicles, while continuing to grow, have posted lower year-over-year percentage growth rates than they had in previous years.
This alone is not particularly remarkable – it is inevitable that any growing product or category will show slower percentage growth rates as sales rise, particularly one that has been growing at such a fast rate for so long.
In some recent years, we’ve even seen year-over-year doublings in EV market share (though one of those was 2020->2021, which was anomalous). To expect improvement at that level perpetually would be close to impossible – after 3 years of doubling market share from 2023’s 18% number, EVs would account for more than 100% of the global automotive market, which cannot happen.
Clearly, growth percentages will need to trend downward as a new product category grows. It would be impossible for them not to.
[...]
Gas car sales are
Because that’s just the thing: the number of gas-only vehicles being sold worldwide is a number that actually is falling. That number continues to go down year over year.
Sales of new gas-powered cars are down by about a quarter from their peak in 2017, and show no signs of recovering. It is exceedingly likely that 2017 will be the high-water mark of gas-powered cars ever sold on this planet.
And yet, somehow, virtually every headline you read is about the “EV sales slump,” rather than the “gas-car sales slump.” The latter is real, the former is incorrect.
>>
This chart needs to be adjusted or fixed. It needs to subtract the vehicle sales from China. A country that heavily subsidizes locally built EV does not represent a meaningful data for the rest.
momopi
Well-known member
Subsidy Tracker
Subsidy Tracker, produced by the Corporate Research Project of Good Jobs First, is a wide-ranging database on misconduct by large and small corporations throughout the United States.
subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org
Subsidy Tracker
Subsidy Tracker, produced by the Corporate Research Project of Good Jobs First, is a wide-ranging database on misconduct by large and small corporations throughout the United States.
subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org
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CalBears96
Well-known member
Are you saying that the US government did not exclude tax rebates on cars or cars with batteries not made in America?
momopi
Well-known member
To be fair, traditional ICE auto makers have received big barrels of bacon over the years:
subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org
subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org
subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org
And our biggest tech companies:
subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org
subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org
subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org
subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org
subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org
subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org
Subsidy Tracker
Subsidy Tracker, produced by the Corporate Research Project of Good Jobs First, is a wide-ranging database on misconduct by large and small corporations throughout the United States.
subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org
Subsidy Tracker
Subsidy Tracker, produced by the Corporate Research Project of Good Jobs First, is a wide-ranging database on misconduct by large and small corporations throughout the United States.
subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org
Subsidy Tracker
Subsidy Tracker, produced by the Corporate Research Project of Good Jobs First, is a wide-ranging database on misconduct by large and small corporations throughout the United States.
subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org
And our biggest tech companies:
Subsidy Tracker
Subsidy Tracker, produced by the Corporate Research Project of Good Jobs First, is a wide-ranging database on misconduct by large and small corporations throughout the United States.
subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org
Subsidy Tracker
Subsidy Tracker, produced by the Corporate Research Project of Good Jobs First, is a wide-ranging database on misconduct by large and small corporations throughout the United States.
subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org
Subsidy Tracker
Subsidy Tracker, produced by the Corporate Research Project of Good Jobs First, is a wide-ranging database on misconduct by large and small corporations throughout the United States.
subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org
Subsidy Tracker
Subsidy Tracker, produced by the Corporate Research Project of Good Jobs First, is a wide-ranging database on misconduct by large and small corporations throughout the United States.
subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org
Subsidy Tracker
Subsidy Tracker, produced by the Corporate Research Project of Good Jobs First, is a wide-ranging database on misconduct by large and small corporations throughout the United States.
subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org
Subsidy Tracker
Subsidy Tracker, produced by the Corporate Research Project of Good Jobs First, is a wide-ranging database on misconduct by large and small corporations throughout the United States.
subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org
Last edited:
momopi
Well-known member
Toyota has no trouble selling cheaper Hi-Lux abroad:
Why not import to US? Blame the chicken tax!
morekaos
Well-known member
actually, it’s the safety and emissions regulations. They keep this out and that price.
morekaos
Well-known member
Bummer…AC standard
Will The Toyota IMV 0 Be Sold In The US?
No, the truck is sadly not compliant with US regulations, nor does it meet the standard that American buyers have come to expect from a modern car.
Will The Toyota IMV 0 Be Sold In The US?
No, the truck is sadly not compliant with US regulations, nor does it meet the standard that American buyers have come to expect from a modern car.
morekaos
Well-known member
EV’s run into the solid wall of economic reality…
Porsche Says People Still Want Gas Cars: 'There's a Clear Trend'
The company admits that EV adoption hasn't been rewarding. In response, it will continue to invest in gas cars.
In the United States and Europe, Porsche sees a "slowdown in the BEV transition and the customer demand is not satisfying overall." He mentioned that "a lot of customers in the premium/luxury segment are looking in the direction of combustion engine cars. There's a clear trend in this direction."
https://www.motor1.com/news/738902/porsche-make-new-gas-cars/
Porsche Says People Still Want Gas Cars: 'There's a Clear Trend'
The company admits that EV adoption hasn't been rewarding. In response, it will continue to invest in gas cars.
In the United States and Europe, Porsche sees a "slowdown in the BEV transition and the customer demand is not satisfying overall." He mentioned that "a lot of customers in the premium/luxury segment are looking in the direction of combustion engine cars. There's a clear trend in this direction."
https://www.motor1.com/news/738902/porsche-make-new-gas-cars/
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
The new Scout EVs (from VW) look good:
Partnership with Rivian on the software although the hardware looks very Rivian-esque.
Partnership with Rivian on the software although the hardware looks very Rivian-esque.
sgip
Well-known member
First look was Rivian with a VW badge, but these are being built in South Carolina, not at a Rivian factory. Here's a pretty syrupy article that has a great comparison between the Scout and the Rivian. Note also that these new Scouts on display are prototypes, not final versions. Much can change between now and delivery date.
www.thedrive.com
I'm still hoping Ural finally builds their electric bike with sidecar - about the only EV I'd consider buying today.
www.imz-ural.com
Scout Skeptics Who Saw the New EVs in Person Were Impressed. I’m Still Torn
The Scout concept vehicles make a compelling case for off-road EVs. There are some grumpy comments about them online, but I talked to a whole lotta people who saw it person and everybody was impressed.
www.thedrive.com
I'm still hoping Ural finally builds their electric bike with sidecar - about the only EV I'd consider buying today.
Electric Concept — Ural Motorcycles
www.imz-ural.com
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
It's VW... they'll figure out a way to mess it up.
They say 2027 release... which probably means 2030+.
Still waiting for the ID.Buzz to actually be out in the US.
They say 2027 release... which probably means 2030+.
Still waiting for the ID.Buzz to actually be out in the US.
I was at a carshow a few weeks back and these guys had a tent, so I took it for a ride. Hard pass. For the price, it was too slow. When I go electric, it will absolutely have to include a step up in performance. I kept trying to step on the clutch to downshift when coming to a stop. The silence was cool, and it got a lot of looks and points as the streets were busy with people. It's more an electric moped with a motorcycle price tag.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
If an EV muscle car is your thing:
electrek.co
And @momopi , speaking of trucks... Ford's next EV truck is supposed to be a more affordable mid-size one.
Dodge's electric Charger Daytona EV will arrive with up to $8,500 in lease discounts
Dodge is giving drivers a new incentive to drive its first electric muscle car. The Dodge Charger Daytona EV is...
electrek.co
And @momopi , speaking of trucks... Ford's next EV truck is supposed to be a more affordable mid-size one.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
Also, non-Tesla brands are slowly getting access to Tesla Supercharging network:
www.pcmag.com
Ford, Rivian, GM, and Polestar have access now.
Nissan, Volvo, and Mercedes are next.
The above all have to use an adaptor from CCS to NACS.
Most brands will switch their ports to NACS from 2025 models onward.
Like him or not, Musk is enabling the proliferation of EVs, not just Tesla.
These EVs Can Now Power Up at 17,800 Tesla Superchargers
Non-Tesla EV drivers now have more charging options, starting with Ford, GM, Polestar, and Rivian. Here's the full list, who's getting access next, and how this major industry shift came about.
Ford, Rivian, GM, and Polestar have access now.
Nissan, Volvo, and Mercedes are next.
The above all have to use an adaptor from CCS to NACS.
Most brands will switch their ports to NACS from 2025 models onward.
Like him or not, Musk is enabling the proliferation of EVs, not just Tesla.
momopi
Well-known member
All I want is a light truck at Corolla price...
morekaos
Well-known member
Genius…create an artificial reduction in supply to increase demand…Kainsianly diabolical…these babys are selling like hotcakes…brilliant move and only shows how the EV takeover is gaining steam!!!....ahhhhh….No…
Ford to idle F-150 Lightning EV plant in mid-November for rest of year
https://www.autonews.com/ford/an-f150-lightning-downtime/
Ford to idle F-150 Lightning EV plant in mid-November for rest of year
https://www.autonews.com/ford/an-f150-lightning-downtime/
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
Some struggle... some thrive:
electrek.co
Hyundai's 3-row SUV, the Ioniq 9 (sister to Kia's EV9), will be out soon... maybe even debut at the LA Auto Show so even more momentum for the Kia/Hyundai brand.
GM sales also rising with their new models out (Blazer, Silverado and Equinox).
Ford has so much inventory (because they don't do many deals on their EVs) so it figures they would pause production. I still prefer the Lightning over the Cylon triangle... but want to wait to see what Ford does with their mid-sized EV truck.
Kia smashes US sales record again in October with surging demand for EVs
Kia just broke its October sales record as its impressive US sales run continues. After another record-breaking month, Kia said...
electrek.co
Hyundai's 3-row SUV, the Ioniq 9 (sister to Kia's EV9), will be out soon... maybe even debut at the LA Auto Show so even more momentum for the Kia/Hyundai brand.
GM sales also rising with their new models out (Blazer, Silverado and Equinox).
Ford has so much inventory (because they don't do many deals on their EVs) so it figures they would pause production. I still prefer the Lightning over the Cylon triangle... but want to wait to see what Ford does with their mid-sized EV truck.