Work in office or remote?

[Innosint]

Oh, it's definitely entitlement. I'm not referring to the hybrid form. I mean, GOOG mandated the employees to return to office 3-4 days a week, which is just hybrid form, but no, the employees are demanding the CEO to rescind that mandate. They HAVE TO WFH ALL THE TIME. That's what I meant by entitlement. Why? Because they moved outside the suburb for cheaper housing.

I do agree that the big techs did hire too many in the past 2-3 years due to labor shortage. However, I was referring to leverage the employees will have in the future, due to the fact that there will be a lot of talent in the market now that there massive layoffs.

Eh.. I won't disclose this in detail, but let's just say ones that moved out of state through the proper channel should not be affected by that announcement. It's those that didn't are scrambling.

Those layoff talents will be fine, most have severance package that last way longer than us normies. Many are not in a hurry to find a new job for a while.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

That's an idea... if they ever tell me to go back into office I'll move to a city where they don't have a presence.

 

[sleepy5136]

Oh, it's definitely entitlement. I'm not referring to the hybrid form. I mean, GOOG mandated the employees to return to office 3-4 days a week, which is just hybrid form, but no, the employees are demanding the CEO to rescind that mandate. They HAVE TO WFH ALL THE TIME. That's what I meant by entitlement. Why? Because they moved outside the suburb for cheaper housing.

I do agree that the big techs did hire too many in the past 2-3 years due to labor shortage. However, I was referring to leverage the employees will have in the future, due to the fact that there will be a lot of talent in the market now that there massive layoffs.

If you're a great talent, you will always have leverage regardless of what situation you are in. In addition, I already mentioned that only companies with actual campuses are requiring employees to go back and it makes sense. Those companies aren't afraid of losing talent because of their company brand. Great talent will naturally go to those companies.

However, if you're not a company like Google for example, how can you demand your top performers to do something they don't want without any consequences? Requesting to WFH is not a big deal in tech. In reality, I think there shouldn't be a requirement but let employees decide whether they want to go to office or not. As long as work is getting done, why does it even matter if the individual is in office or not? Why is it that people that want to WFH gets shitted on? Why not the people that want to go to office to play politics and indulge on unhealthy food?

 

[CalBears96]

Why is it that people that want to WFH gets shitted on? Why not the people that want to go to office to play politics and indulge on unhealthy food?

Is this even a question?

You're just making shit up about people "wanting to go to office to play politics and indulge on unhealthy food (this one is especially dumb)" to make an excuse for WFH. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with getting the work done. This has to do with company policy and people not wanting to comply with company policy.

 

[sleepy5136]

Is this even a question?

You're just making shit up about people "wanting to go to office to play politics and indulge on unhealthy food (this one is especially dumb)" to make an excuse for WFH. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with getting the work done. This has to do with company policy and people not wanting to comply with company policy.

Yeah, please explain to me 5 legitimate reasons why going to office as a tech worker will be beneficial? As a tech worker, you simply need an internet connection + a computer. Both do not require to be in office.

So you're telling me to listen to a company policy because they need to justify their billions of dollars they spent on their campus? No thanks. And if there is no benefit to go back to office why go?

 

[CalBears96]

So you're telling me to listen to a company policy because they need to justify their billions of dollars they spent on their campus? No thanks. And if there is no benefit to go back to office why go?

You realize that GOOG give free food to employees, right? By forcing employees back to office, they actually end up spending MORE than just their campus. So there is a reason for GOOG to do this.

The thing is, most employees won't sit in front of their computer while they're working from home. Then they start doing other things. In the beginning they might be working efficiently because they had. Who knows if they still are. And we've read about people started working second jobs because, well, their employers don't know. It is beneficial for the employees to work from home, but not the employer.

 

[zovall]

Let people work in the way they prefer as long as they are performing. I think many companies (including those in tech) had too many that were not performing and rather than addressing that, they are doing the ‘everyone back in the office x times a week’. I also feel that there are certain personality types that are more common in management that want to see their employees in order to feel that work is getting done.

 

[sleepy5136]

You realize that GOOG give free food to employees, right? By forcing employees back to office, they actually end up spending MORE than just their campus. So there is a reason for GOOG to do this.

The thing is, most employees won't sit in front of their computer while they're working from home. Then they start doing other things. In the beginning they might be working efficiently because they had. Who knows if they still are. And we've read about people started working second jobs because, well, their employers don't know. It is beneficial for the employees to work from home, but not the employer.

Who cares if they’re in front of their screen for how long? Why not focus on whether or not they are meeting their deadlines? Being more results oriented and empowering employees rather than micromanaging them is what defines a great leader.

Are there employees that do require a leader to be more hands on? Sure. No one can say there aren’t slackers. But let’s not generalize and say WFH sucks because a couple of bad apples can’t get their work done when 90% are.

 

[CalBears96]

Who cares if they’re in front of their screen for how long? Why not focus on whether or not they are meeting their deadlines? Being more results oriented and empowering employees rather than micromanaging them is what defines a great leader.

Are there employees that do require a leader to be more hands on? Sure. No one can say there aren’t slackers. But let’s not generalize and say WFH sucks because a couple of bad apples can’t get their work done when 90% are.

Who the hell said WFH sucks? You keep moving the goal post. My original post that you replied to said that I felt WFH is an entitlement, which it is. You asked why people are shitting on people wanting to WFH. I gave you the reason. And now you change to "WFH sucks". It is YOU who are generalizing.

The reason that GOOG, AAPL, AMZN, etc., are asking employees to return to office is that they feel that too many employees aren't performing. It's not "a couple of bad apples". If things really did work well, they wouldn't need to take unnecessary steps. You realize how much logistics is involved in getting employees back to the office, right?

 

[sleepy5136]

Who the hell said WFH sucks? You keep moving the goal post. My original post that you replied to said that I felt WFH is an entitlement, which it is. You asked why people are shitting on people wanting to WFH. I gave you the reason. And now you change to "WFH sucks". It is YOU who are generalizing.

The reason that GOOG, AAPL, AMZN, etc., are asking employees to return to office is that they feel that too many employees aren't performing. It's not "a couple of bad apples". If things really did work well, they wouldn't need to take unnecessary steps. You realize how much logistics is involved in getting employees back to the office, right?

Moving goal posts? Didn’t you first say you weren’t talking about ppl not performing and it was about entitlement? Then you mention people not performing. Good job. So what is your point that you are arguing? What solutions are you providing? Seems like you are speaking just to speak.

Tbh there’s plenty of jobs in tech that offer remote. And you need to factor in the size of the company. If it’s 1000 workers in a 35k+ company it is a couple of apples.

 

[CalBears96]

Moving goal posts? Didn’t you first say you weren’t talking about ppl not performing and it was about entitlement? Then you mention people not performing. Good job. So what is your point that you are arguing? What solutions are you providing? Seems like you are speaking just to speak.

Tbh there’s plenty of jobs in tech that offer remote. And you need to factor in the size of the company. If it’s 1000 workers in a 35k+ company it is a couple of apples.

Yeah, no, YOU are the one who's speaking just to speak. Your points are all over.

I said it was entitlement, which it is. WFH was a temporary solution to the pandemic. Now that the pandemic is generally over, more and more companies are telling employees to return to office. But these employees don't want to. Because they made permanent plans for a temporary solution. Like buying homes in OC while getting SV salary and now they don't want to go back to the office, because, well, they can't. Well, that's entitlement.

So for your argument, you just make shit up about people "wanting to go to office to play politics and indulge on unhealthy food" when the company is mandating it. I didn't bring up performance. You were the one doing that. And you just ASSUME that most employees are performing well working remote and also ASSUME that big techs bring back employees to justify expense for campuses. You don't KNOW that. You either make shit up or assume things for your argument.

In our arguments, including other topics, so far, all you've been doing is making shit up and or assume things, rarely rely on facts.

 

[sleepy5136]

you just make shit up about people "wanting to go to office to play politics and indulge on unhealthy food" when the company is mandating it. I didn't bring up performance. You were the one doing that. And you just ASSUME that most employees are performing well working remote and also ASSUME that

Yeah dude, you win. I make shit up.

 

[nosuchreality]

Depends on the company I think. Most companies are actually governed like a small aircraft pilot flies their Cessna.

 

[morekaos]

No good deed goes unpunished or give an inch…

Manhattan law firm sues attorney, 52, for 'quiet quitting' by 'taking advantage of work-from-home rules' to do the bare minimum for them and start up her own firm while collecting $400k paycheck

· Heather Palmore 52, is being sued by Napolo Shkolnik, her NYC law firm

· The firm claims she barely worked after being brought on in October 2021

· Palmore insists she is the victim of racial and disability discrimination

She also used the time to set up her own competing law firm, which she celebrated on social media.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...oing-bare-minimum-collecting-400k-salary.html

 

[irvinehomeowner]

This article outlines why remote work is here to stay and will even increase:

The return to the office once seemed inevitable. A new study shows companies are already reversing course

Return-to-office mandates are the exception, not the rule. It’s likely that 2023 will see more employees working remotely, not less.

fortune.com

Those companies you hear reversing their remote policy? Only a small percentage according to the article, slightly higher percentage expanding remote. It’s science (just kidding).

Even Elon has closed offices for Twitter and had those employees go remote.

 

[ThirtySomethingWEquity]

So GOOG changed and now they’re saying only 2 days in the office required but you won’t get a permanent desk if you only come in 2 days, it will be hot desking.

I like working from an office (primarily), and yet somehow I keep getting on teams that are remote from me. The last 15 years, only 2 years of those were in person with a local team. The rest of the time I went into the office to enjoy the perks and video conferenced to all my meetings

 

[irvinehomeowner]

Some blame SVB collapse on remote work:

SVB employees blame remote work for bank failure

What happened at Silicon Valley Bank will likely enter the broader return-to-office debate.

www.axios.com

That’s why some can and some can’t.

For businesses like morekaos’, a physical presence may not only be preferred but required depending on clientele. Others, more tech oriented as posted by others, can be done entirely remote. I think some tech people actually need an office to develop their social skills but some businesses prefer them working over socializing.

 

[sleepy5136]

Some blame SVB collapse on remote work:

SVB employees blame remote work for bank failure

What happened at Silicon Valley Bank will likely enter the broader return-to-office debate.

www.axios.com

That’s why some can and some can’t.

For businesses like morekaos’, a physical presence may not only be preferred but required depending on clientele. Others, more tech oriented as posted by others, can be done entirely remote. I think some tech people actually need an office to develop their social skills but some businesses prefer them working over socializing.

Remote work was not the problem. Issue was mostly based on lack of risk management. Them putting all their eggs in one basket.

 

[morekaos]

WFH nearing Pre Pandemic levels….just doesn’t work…

Work-From-Home Era Ends for Millions of Americans

Share of businesses with workers on-site most of the time neared prepandemic levels in 2022, Labor Department finds

Working remotely is becoming increasingly rare a few years after the pandemic caused millions of Americans to decamp from worksites to their basements and bedrooms.

Some 72.5% of business establishments said their employees teleworked rarely or not at all last year, according to a Labor Department report released this week. That figure climbed from 60.1% in 2021. The survey showed about 21 million more workers on-site full time in 2022, compared with the prior year. An establishment is defined as each business location—such as an individual restaurant in a chain.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/work-from-home-era-ends-for-millions-of-americans-8bb75367

 

[irvinehomeowner]

I think working remote is still a higher percentage than pre-Covid.