Will the Great Park be Canceled? or just Delayed a while?

NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
[quote author="catchmeifyoucan" date=1207817167][quote author="alan" date=1207816770]Gee Irvine dudes...



As I recall, no-one was ever talking about actually building an airport



THE FEDS FU#KN GAVE YOU AN AIRPORT ALREADY BUILT....



HUGE RUNWAYS, ADJACENT TO RAIL



for gods sakes, all you had to do was put in a civilian terminal and open it up.



YOU TORE IT UP



I REPEAT YOU TORE UP A PERFECTLY GOOD AIRPORT



FOR WHAT, BALLON RIDES



the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many....</blockquote>


we dont need another airport 7 miles away from John wayne.

People of OC voted "NO" on the airport so let it be.</blockquote>


Ha, people voted no after voting yes twice.
 
>:-(



MCAS El Toro - Marine Corps Air Station !!!!!!!! pffftttt, air force base.......please.......i don't know if any one else here was ever stationed there but i can not sit here and let you call it an AFB :-P



yeah, nobody was confused when voting, after all "vote yes if you don't want the airport" made perfect sense to me.
 
That's the problem with leaving regional planning up to the people with the most money who can shout the loudest...



Europe, ASIA wouldn't allow this sort of nonsense.



That's why there are no prisions built either..



NIMBY



BTW



If you really like the way CA does things, hows bout the sales tax system... leads to Cities competing for auto dealerships and malls.



John Wayne is too small and has no place to expand. El Toro was a huge airport and necessary for growth into this century.



When the economy continues to TANK over the next several years and you see that the OC economy was really mostly smoke and mirrors you will start wishing you really did have an airport there.
 
anela, there were three votes, the first two ended with a majority in favor of airport.



Did you know there is a prison and a landfill in Irvine? And a nuclear power plant at uci. I agree nimby's stop progress.
 
yeah, i remember the three votes and the "dry run" when they rented planes and played airport one weekend - that was actually pretty funny. i moved to this area in 1983 and up until 2004 we owned a condo off irvine blvd. and yale.



i've spent the past 21 years working for geotechnical/environmental engineering firms - over the years i've worked at FRB, Prima Desheca, Santiago Canyon, Puente Hills, Simi Valley, and a whole bunch of other landfills that used to be "remote". google Mesquite Regional Landfill. i remember when we did the original investigation for the toll road going through laguna canyon and a nice lady from an adjacent condo hiked to our location and complained about the new road and how it was going to ruin her view. i remember the days of mass grading, nothing like the small pads going on today. so, yes, i'm aware of all kinds of things in irvine and the surrounding area. i don't have a NIMBY mentality - the only way to stop "progress" is for people to stop moving here or stop reproducing, neither of which i see happening. i should probably change my user name to agent smith.
 
alan -

Actually, they WERE talking about building an airport. The runways had to be fixed up. Terminals and the whole support structure had to be designed and built. Plus commercial jets couldn't always use the take-off path to the East that avoided going over homes. That path was used by fighter jets that are much more nimble. Airline pilots said they would take off towards the West, over Irvine and Newport, most of the time due to prevailing winds. Notice this is the same basic direction they normally follow at John Wayne.



Also, why would we want an airport as the OC economy tanks? Wouldn't it be a huge expense as the falling economy causes less flights in and out?
 
Infastructure always drives investment and business growth. Your just kidding yourself thinking living 50 miles from LAX doesn't hurt your competitiveness. John Wayne is OK as a regional airport but it's not like LAX.
 
[quote author="T!m" date=1207878855]alan -

Actually, they WERE talking about building an airport. The runways had to be fixed up. Terminals and the whole support structure had to be designed and built. Plus commercial jets couldn't always use the take-off path to the East that avoided going over homes. That path was used by fighter jets that are much more nimble. Airline pilots said they would take off towards the West, over Irvine and Newport, most of the time due to prevailing winds. Notice this is the same basic direction they normally follow at John Wayne.



Also, why would we want an airport as the OC economy tanks? Wouldn't it be a huge expense as the falling economy causes less flights in and out?</blockquote>


I think daunting task of building terminals and support structure is a wash when compared to demolishing acres of runway and building a canyon, not to mention the task of building 10,000 homes in a down market.



Why would we want an international airport in orange county that would be a direct link to the Irvine Business Center with the rest of the world that could diversify this local economy beyond high tech and RE related jobs and maybe into the finance or resort industry? Yeah, your right, i'd rather have the million dollar hot air ballon and the world's biggest camera. Puts us on the map along with the world's largest thermomator in bishop? and the london bridge on lake havasu.
 
you mean the bun boy in baker has the worlds largest thermometer. been there... they lied. it was NOT the world's best hamburger! now i stop at the mad greek instead on the way to vegas. in bishop, the must-stop is erick schatt's bakery. i alwas take a schatt's break on the way to mammoth.
 
Was anyone here when MCAS El Toro was functional?



I grew up in the 'vine, so can distinctly remember all the military aircraft flying around. I think it was the gigantic C-5, that you could ALWAYS here flying around, which always scared the crap of me when I was a kid. Plus the "flying banana" helicopters, Harriers, etc.



Just saying that there were a lot of aircraft flying about scaring little kids. ;-)
 
[quote author="k.o." date=1207885466]Was anyone here when MCAS El Toro was functional? </blockquote>


i was stationed at tustin but checked in/out at el toro and spent a few weeks there. after getting out my old company built an office on Mauchly - right on the approach. those harriers about took the windows out every time they came in. it was really cool to watch the air show from the roof though. remember when they would practice their touch and go's? ah, nothing like the good ol' days.
 
[quote author="anela" date=1207886585][quote author="k.o." date=1207885466]Was anyone here when MCAS El Toro was functional? </blockquote>


i was stationed at tustin but checked in/out at el toro and spent a few weeks there. after getting out my old company built an office on Mauchly - right on the approach. those harriers about took the windows out every time they came in. it was really cool to watch the air show from the roof though. remember when they would practice their touch and go's? ah, nothing like the good ol' days.</blockquote>


The air shows out there were the best. One of the highlights of the year, that's for sure!
 
[quote author="k.o." date=1207887528][quote author="anela" date=1207886585][quote author="k.o." date=1207885466]Was anyone here when MCAS El Toro was functional? </blockquote>


i was stationed at tustin but checked in/out at el toro and spent a few weeks there. after getting out my old company built an office on Mauchly - right on the approach. those harriers about took the windows out every time they came in. it was really cool to watch the air show from the roof though. remember when they would practice their touch and go's? ah, nothing like the good ol' days.</blockquote>


The air shows out there were the best. One of the highlights of the year, that's for sure!</blockquote>


I really miss the air shows. Dont miss the FA18`s in the middle of the night when the 1st Arab war started.



But in a way almost wanted an Airport. Ir would have been great for business. But the NIMBY`s would never let it happen.

Knew that from the get go. But Lennar sure thought they were the cool when the won the rights to develop the land.

Little did they know that there timing could not have been worse. Will be interesting to see what happens if Lennar goes

"Paws Up".
 
[quote author="bltserv" date=1207888531][quote author="k.o." date=1207887528][quote author="anela" date=1207886585][quote author="k.o." date=1207885466]Was anyone here when MCAS El Toro was functional? </blockquote>


i was stationed at tustin but checked in/out at el toro and spent a few weeks there. after getting out my old company built an office on Mauchly - right on the approach. those harriers about took the windows out every time they came in. it was really cool to watch the air show from the roof though. remember when they would practice their touch and go's? ah, nothing like the good ol' days.</blockquote>


The air shows out there were the best. One of the highlights of the year, that's for sure!</blockquote>


I really miss the air shows. Dont miss the FA18`s in the middle of the night when the 1st Arab war started.



But in a way almost wanted an Airport. Ir would have been great for business. But the NIMBY`s would never let it happen.

Knew that from the get go. But Lennar sure thought they were the cool when the won the rights to develop the land.

Little did they know that there timing could not have been worse. Will be interesting to see what happens if Lennar goes

"Paws Up".</blockquote>


As someone who firmly believed we were witnessing a bubble when Lennar bought these properties, I was shocked to see them do it.
 
[quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1207889166]



As someone who firmly believed we were witnessing a bubble when Lennar bought these properties, I was shocked to see them do it.</blockquote>


Actually, IR, I worked close to the base during the time the developers were going for it. There were signs all over the nearby area (farm land), touting the acreage and a number for inquiries about purchasing land. I'm not too surprised Lennar went for it the way they did; everyone was still in denial by that point.
 
How could you not be surprised about how they went for it? As i recall it was four parcels set to be auctioned off individually and Lennar took all four of them. Meanwhile, the company was acquiring old bases in nor cal. Sure, it was a bubble, but the sheer scale of the project and ambition was a surprise to everyone in the know.
 
[quote author="jcaraway" date=1207891217]How could you not be surprised about how they went for it? As i recall it was four parcels set to be auctioned off individually and Lennar took all four of them. Meanwhile, the company was acquiring old bases in nor cal. Sure, it was a bubble, but the sheer scale of the project and ambition was a surprise to everyone in the know.</blockquote>


I just thought it was a company being greedy (or planning to step up and become the dominant home builder in CA). I'm just a Joe Schmo, so that's how I took it.
 
[quote author="jcaraway" date=1207891217]How could you not be surprised about how they went for it? As i recall it was four parcels set to be auctioned off individually and Lennar took all four of them. Meanwhile, the company was acquiring old bases in nor cal. Sure, it was a bubble, but the sheer scale of the project and ambition was a surprise to everyone in the know.</blockquote>


These purchases probably wiped out most of what they made during the bubble rally. It is like the guy in Las Vegas who "lets it ride" pass after pass at the craps table. Eventually a 7 comes up...
 
[quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1207899213][quote author="jcaraway" date=1207891217]How could you not be surprised about how they went for it? As i recall it was four parcels set to be auctioned off individually and Lennar took all four of them. Meanwhile, the company was acquiring old bases in nor cal. Sure, it was a bubble, but the sheer scale of the project and ambition was a surprise to everyone in the know.</blockquote>


These purchases probably wiped out most of what they made during the bubble rally. It is like the guy in Las Vegas who "lets it ride" pass after pass at the craps table. Eventually a 7 comes up...</blockquote>


Well, with write downs being applicable to previous two tax year (and with congress mulling the possible extention to five), these purchases are responsible for home builder's current profit. Actually, that's not quite true, these large purchases are JV's with massive loans. No one knows how these are structured and what the recourse terms of the loan are. Developers may have anywhere for 25% to 0% equity in these deals.
 
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