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[quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1223332576][quote author="awgee" date=1223325641]The following analogy is a bit harsh and in no way is meant to offend or denigrate opposing viewpoints. It is the best way I know to make my point.



The USD index is useful for Forex traders, but is not particularly useful when discussing or computing the strength of the dollar. Determining the strength of the dollar by comparing it to the Euro is like comparing the odors of two different piles of dog poop before stepping in one pile and entering one's home. No matter which pile has the least offensive odor, they are both piles of poop and it is better to avoid both before entering one's home.</blockquote>


That is funny.



You and Peter Schiff may be right. There is one main reason I have a hard time imagining a collapse of all currencies including the dollar: where else is the money supposed to go? I know you guys like gold, partly because gold has been a currency, but gold is not a currency any more. I haven't seen too many people going to the grocery store with gold bullion lately. Unless gold makes a comeback as a true currency (possible but unlikely,) people will need to keep their money in a currency they can actually use: people will still need to select the least smelly pile of crap. I just don't see us (as a world) abandoning fiat currency altogether.</blockquote>


Devaluation of a currency does not necessitate the non-use of that currency by the normal users. Devaluation necessitates only an increased supply or the perception of an increased supply. I do not foresee the abandonment of fiat currency either. I foresee an extreme devaluation of the dollar, the opposite of strength.
 
[quote author="awgee" date=1223339860][quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1223332576][quote author="awgee" date=1223325641]The following analogy is a bit harsh and in no way is meant to offend or denigrate opposing viewpoints. It is the best way I know to make my point.



The USD index is useful for Forex traders, but is not particularly useful when discussing or computing the strength of the dollar. Determining the strength of the dollar by comparing it to the Euro is like comparing the odors of two different piles of dog poop before stepping in one pile and entering one's home. No matter which pile has the least offensive odor, they are both piles of poop and it is better to avoid both before entering one's home.</blockquote>


That is funny.



You and Peter Schiff may be right. There is one main reason I have a hard time imagining a collapse of all currencies including the dollar: where else is the money supposed to go? I know you guys like gold, partly because gold has been a currency, but gold is not a currency any more. I haven't seen too many people going to the grocery store with gold bullion lately. Unless gold makes a comeback as a true currency (possible but unlikely,) people will need to keep their money in a currency they can actually use: people will still need to select the least smelly pile of crap. I just don't see us (as a world) abandoning fiat currency altogether.</blockquote>


Devaluation of a currency does not necessitate the non-use of that currency by the normal users. Devaluation necessitates only an increased supply or the perception of an increased supply. I do not foresee the abandonment of fiat currency either. I foresee an extreme devaluation of the dollar, the opposite of strength.</blockquote>


How would you measure this devaluation? What is it being devalued relative to? I am not trying to be obtuse, I am wondering how anyone would know. If it is devalued relative to commodities, then prices should rise, and we would have inflation. If it is devalued relative to other currencies, then we would see a diminished standard of living compared to the societies with the stronger currency. If it is devalued relative to gold, then you will be rich :)
 
[quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1223340255][quote author="awgee" date=1223339860][quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1223332576][quote author="awgee" date=1223325641]The following analogy is a bit harsh and in no way is meant to offend or denigrate opposing viewpoints. It is the best way I know to make my point.



The USD index is useful for Forex traders, but is not particularly useful when discussing or computing the strength of the dollar. Determining the strength of the dollar by comparing it to the Euro is like comparing the odors of two different piles of dog poop before stepping in one pile and entering one's home. No matter which pile has the least offensive odor, they are both piles of poop and it is better to avoid both before entering one's home.</blockquote>


That is funny.



You and Peter Schiff may be right. There is one main reason I have a hard time imagining a collapse of all currencies including the dollar: where else is the money supposed to go? I know you guys like gold, partly because gold has been a currency, but gold is not a currency any more. I haven't seen too many people going to the grocery store with gold bullion lately. Unless gold makes a comeback as a true currency (possible but unlikely,) people will need to keep their money in a currency they can actually use: people will still need to select the least smelly pile of crap. I just don't see us (as a world) abandoning fiat currency altogether.</blockquote>


Devaluation of a currency does not necessitate the non-use of that currency by the normal users. Devaluation necessitates only an increased supply or the perception of an increased supply. I do not foresee the abandonment of fiat currency either. I foresee an extreme devaluation of the dollar, the opposite of strength.</blockquote>


How would you measure this devaluation? What is it being devalued relative to? I am not trying to be obtuse, I am wondering how anyone would know. If it is devalued relative to commodities, then prices should rise, and we would have inflation. If it is devalued relative to other currencies, then we would see a diminished standard of living compared to the societies with the stronger currency. If it is devalued relative to gold, then you will be rich :)</blockquote>


Commodities absolutely. What have the price of oil, wheat, rice, natural gas, gold, silver, copper, iron ore, etc, done in the last three to four years? Check out any long term commodity chart. Devalued in terms of what you can buy for a dollar.
 
[quote author="awgee" date=1223340996][quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1223340255][quote author="awgee" date=1223339860][quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1223332576][quote author="awgee" date=1223325641]The following analogy is a bit harsh and in no way is meant to offend or denigrate opposing viewpoints. It is the best way I know to make my point.



The USD index is useful for Forex traders, but is not particularly useful when discussing or computing the strength of the dollar. Determining the strength of the dollar by comparing it to the Euro is like comparing the odors of two different piles of dog poop before stepping in one pile and entering one's home. No matter which pile has the least offensive odor, they are both piles of poop and it is better to avoid both before entering one's home.</blockquote>


That is funny.



You and Peter Schiff may be right. There is one main reason I have a hard time imagining a collapse of all currencies including the dollar: where else is the money supposed to go? I know you guys like gold, partly because gold has been a currency, but gold is not a currency any more. I haven't seen too many people going to the grocery store with gold bullion lately. Unless gold makes a comeback as a true currency (possible but unlikely,) people will need to keep their money in a currency they can actually use: people will still need to select the least smelly pile of crap. I just don't see us (as a world) abandoning fiat currency altogether.</blockquote>


Devaluation of a currency does not necessitate the non-use of that currency by the normal users. Devaluation necessitates only an increased supply or the perception of an increased supply. I do not foresee the abandonment of fiat currency either. I foresee an extreme devaluation of the dollar, the opposite of strength.</blockquote>


How would you measure this devaluation? What is it being devalued relative to? I am not trying to be obtuse, I am wondering how anyone would know. If it is devalued relative to commodities, then prices should rise, and we would have inflation. If it is devalued relative to other currencies, then we would see a diminished standard of living compared to the societies with the stronger currency. If it is devalued relative to gold, then you will be rich :)</blockquote>


Commodities absolutely. What have the price of oil, wheat, rice, natural gas, gold, silver, copper, iron ore, etc, done in the last three to four years? Check out any long term commodity chart. Devalued in terms of what you can buy for a dollar.</blockquote>


In order for that to be the case, wouldn't there have to be some competing currency somewhere with the ability to pay more for these commodities than those who hold US Dollars? If all currencies fall, who is left to bid up commodity prices? I am not being argumentative, I am really trying to decipher the mechanism by which this would work.
 
[quote author="awgee" date=1223340996][quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1223340255][quote author="awgee" date=1223339860][quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1223332576][quote author="awgee" date=1223325641]The following analogy is a bit harsh and in no way is meant to offend or denigrate opposing viewpoints. It is the best way I know to make my point.



The USD index is useful for Forex traders, but is not particularly useful when discussing or computing the strength of the dollar. Determining the strength of the dollar by comparing it to the Euro is like comparing the odors of two different piles of dog poop before stepping in one pile and entering one's home. No matter which pile has the least offensive odor, they are both piles of poop and it is better to avoid both before entering one's home.</blockquote>


That is funny.



You and Peter Schiff may be right. There is one main reason I have a hard time imagining a collapse of all currencies including the dollar: where else is the money supposed to go? I know you guys like gold, partly because gold has been a currency, but gold is not a currency any more. I haven't seen too many people going to the grocery store with gold bullion lately. Unless gold makes a comeback as a true currency (possible but unlikely,) people will need to keep their money in a currency they can actually use: people will still need to select the least smelly pile of crap. I just don't see us (as a world) abandoning fiat currency altogether.</blockquote>


Devaluation of a currency does not necessitate the non-use of that currency by the normal users. Devaluation necessitates only an increased supply or the perception of an increased supply. I do not foresee the abandonment of fiat currency either. I foresee an extreme devaluation of the dollar, the opposite of strength.</blockquote>


How would you measure this devaluation? What is it being devalued relative to? I am not trying to be obtuse, I am wondering how anyone would know. If it is devalued relative to commodities, then prices should rise, and we would have inflation. If it is devalued relative to other currencies, then we would see a diminished standard of living compared to the societies with the stronger currency. If it is devalued relative to gold, then you will be rich :)</blockquote>


Commodities absolutely. What have the price of oil, wheat, rice, natural gas, gold, silver, copper, iron ore, etc, done in the last three to four years? Check out any long term commodity chart. Devalued in terms of what you can buy for a dollar.</blockquote>
Awgee, you need to check those charts again and more closely this time (pay particular attention from July to today)....they sure look a bit like home prices (especially with the spike this year and you are seeing 50%+ declines from the peak). The charts will tell you that almost all of the commodities have broken down and are heading lower. So from your definition of devaluation, the dollar should be appreciating because commodities are crashing right now. Global recessions have a way of doing that to commodities. The only question I have is....when the hell do we see gasoline prices below $3/galloon (gasoline futures have dropped like $.50/galloon the past 2 weeks can gasoline prices have gone down like 5 cents)???
 
[quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1223342101][quote author="awgee" date=1223340996][quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1223340255][quote author="awgee" date=1223339860][quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1223332576][quote author="awgee" date=1223325641]The following analogy is a bit harsh and in no way is meant to offend or denigrate opposing viewpoints. It is the best way I know to make my point.



The USD index is useful for Forex traders, but is not particularly useful when discussing or computing the strength of the dollar. Determining the strength of the dollar by comparing it to the Euro is like comparing the odors of two different piles of dog poop before stepping in one pile and entering one's home. No matter which pile has the least offensive odor, they are both piles of poop and it is better to avoid both before entering one's home.</blockquote>


That is funny.



You and Peter Schiff may be right. There is one main reason I have a hard time imagining a collapse of all currencies including the dollar: where else is the money supposed to go? I know you guys like gold, partly because gold has been a currency, but gold is not a currency any more. I haven't seen too many people going to the grocery store with gold bullion lately. Unless gold makes a comeback as a true currency (possible but unlikely,) people will need to keep their money in a currency they can actually use: people will still need to select the least smelly pile of crap. I just don't see us (as a world) abandoning fiat currency altogether.</blockquote>


Devaluation of a currency does not necessitate the non-use of that currency by the normal users. Devaluation necessitates only an increased supply or the perception of an increased supply. I do not foresee the abandonment of fiat currency either. I foresee an extreme devaluation of the dollar, the opposite of strength.</blockquote>


How would you measure this devaluation? What is it being devalued relative to? I am not trying to be obtuse, I am wondering how anyone would know. If it is devalued relative to commodities, then prices should rise, and we would have inflation. If it is devalued relative to other currencies, then we would see a diminished standard of living compared to the societies with the stronger currency. If it is devalued relative to gold, then you will be rich :)</blockquote>


Commodities absolutely. What have the price of oil, wheat, rice, natural gas, gold, silver, copper, iron ore, etc, done in the last three to four years? Check out any long term commodity chart. Devalued in terms of what you can buy for a dollar.</blockquote>


In order for that to be the case, wouldn't there have to be some competing currency somewhere with the ability to pay more for these commodities than those who hold US Dollars? If all currencies fall, who is left to bid up commodity prices? I am not being argumentative, I am really trying to decipher the mechanism by which this would work.</blockquote>
IR is right, money has to find some currency to be held in. At this point, the Yen and the US dollar are the two strongest currencies out there (based upon the current trends).
 
[quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1223342101][quote author="awgee" date=1223340996][quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1223340255][quote author="awgee" date=1223339860][quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1223332576][quote author="awgee" date=1223325641]The following analogy is a bit harsh and in no way is meant to offend or denigrate opposing viewpoints. It is the best way I know to make my point.



The USD index is useful for Forex traders, but is not particularly useful when discussing or computing the strength of the dollar. Determining the strength of the dollar by comparing it to the Euro is like comparing the odors of two different piles of dog poop before stepping in one pile and entering one's home. No matter which pile has the least offensive odor, they are both piles of poop and it is better to avoid both before entering one's home.</blockquote>


That is funny.



You and Peter Schiff may be right. There is one main reason I have a hard time imagining a collapse of all currencies including the dollar: where else is the money supposed to go? I know you guys like gold, partly because gold has been a currency, but gold is not a currency any more. I haven't seen too many people going to the grocery store with gold bullion lately. Unless gold makes a comeback as a true currency (possible but unlikely,) people will need to keep their money in a currency they can actually use: people will still need to select the least smelly pile of crap. I just don't see us (as a world) abandoning fiat currency altogether.</blockquote>


Devaluation of a currency does not necessitate the non-use of that currency by the normal users. Devaluation necessitates only an increased supply or the perception of an increased supply. I do not foresee the abandonment of fiat currency either. I foresee an extreme devaluation of the dollar, the opposite of strength.</blockquote>


How would you measure this devaluation? What is it being devalued relative to? I am not trying to be obtuse, I am wondering how anyone would know. If it is devalued relative to commodities, then prices should rise, and we would have inflation. If it is devalued relative to other currencies, then we would see a diminished standard of living compared to the societies with the stronger currency. If it is devalued relative to gold, then you will be rich :)</blockquote>


Commodities absolutely. What have the price of oil, wheat, rice, natural gas, gold, silver, copper, iron ore, etc, done in the last three to four years? Check out any long term commodity chart. Devalued in terms of what you can buy for a dollar.</blockquote>


In order for that to be the case, wouldn't there have to be some competing currency somewhere with the ability to pay more for these commodities than those who hold US Dollars? If all currencies fall, who is left to bid up commodity prices? I am not being argumentative, I am really trying to decipher the mechanism by which this would work.</blockquote>


Central banks, including ours, can and are printing as much as they want. And more money supply does not translate into more money for J6pk to buy what he needs or wants.
 
[quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1223351029][quote author="awgee" date=1223340996][quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1223340255][quote author="awgee" date=1223339860][quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1223332576][quote author="awgee" date=1223325641]The following analogy is a bit harsh and in no way is meant to offend or denigrate opposing viewpoints. It is the best way I know to make my point.



The USD index is useful for Forex traders, but is not particularly useful when discussing or computing the strength of the dollar. Determining the strength of the dollar by comparing it to the Euro is like comparing the odors of two different piles of dog poop before stepping in one pile and entering one's home. No matter which pile has the least offensive odor, they are both piles of poop and it is better to avoid both before entering one's home.</blockquote>


That is funny.



You and Peter Schiff may be right. There is one main reason I have a hard time imagining a collapse of all currencies including the dollar: where else is the money supposed to go? I know you guys like gold, partly because gold has been a currency, but gold is not a currency any more. I haven't seen too many people going to the grocery store with gold bullion lately. Unless gold makes a comeback as a true currency (possible but unlikely,) people will need to keep their money in a currency they can actually use: people will still need to select the least smelly pile of crap. I just don't see us (as a world) abandoning fiat currency altogether.</blockquote>


Devaluation of a currency does not necessitate the non-use of that currency by the normal users. Devaluation necessitates only an increased supply or the perception of an increased supply. I do not foresee the abandonment of fiat currency either. I foresee an extreme devaluation of the dollar, the opposite of strength.</blockquote>


How would you measure this devaluation? What is it being devalued relative to? I am not trying to be obtuse, I am wondering how anyone would know. If it is devalued relative to commodities, then prices should rise, and we would have inflation. If it is devalued relative to other currencies, then we would see a diminished standard of living compared to the societies with the stronger currency. If it is devalued relative to gold, then you will be rich :)</blockquote>


Commodities absolutely. What have the price of oil, wheat, rice, natural gas, gold, silver, copper, iron ore, etc, done in the last three to four years? Check out any long term commodity chart. Devalued in terms of what you can buy for a dollar.</blockquote>
Awgee, you need to check those charts again and more closely this time (pay particular attention from July to today)....they sure look a bit like home prices (especially with the spike this year and you are seeing 50%+ declines from the peak). The charts will tell you that almost all of the commodities have broken down and are heading lower. So from your definition of devaluation, the dollar should be appreciating because commodities are crashing right now. Global recessions have a way of doing that to commodities. The only question I have is....when the hell do we see gasoline prices below $3/galloon (gasoline futures have dropped like $.50/galloon the past 2 weeks can gasoline prices have gone down like 5 cents)???</blockquote>


July to today? Are you serious? I think you are and I do not know what to say. Good luck.
 
[quote author="awgee" date=1223352435][quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1223342101][quote author="awgee" date=1223340996][quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1223340255][quote author="awgee" date=1223339860][quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1223332576][quote author="awgee" date=1223325641]The following analogy is a bit harsh and in no way is meant to offend or denigrate opposing viewpoints. It is the best way I know to make my point.



The USD index is useful for Forex traders, but is not particularly useful when discussing or computing the strength of the dollar. Determining the strength of the dollar by comparing it to the Euro is like comparing the odors of two different piles of dog poop before stepping in one pile and entering one's home. No matter which pile has the least offensive odor, they are both piles of poop and it is better to avoid both before entering one's home.</blockquote>


That is funny.



You and Peter Schiff may be right. There is one main reason I have a hard time imagining a collapse of all currencies including the dollar: where else is the money supposed to go? I know you guys like gold, partly because gold has been a currency, but gold is not a currency any more. I haven't seen too many people going to the grocery store with gold bullion lately. Unless gold makes a comeback as a true currency (possible but unlikely,) people will need to keep their money in a currency they can actually use: people will still need to select the least smelly pile of crap. I just don't see us (as a world) abandoning fiat currency altogether.</blockquote>


Devaluation of a currency does not necessitate the non-use of that currency by the normal users. Devaluation necessitates only an increased supply or the perception of an increased supply. I do not foresee the abandonment of fiat currency either. I foresee an extreme devaluation of the dollar, the opposite of strength.</blockquote>


How would you measure this devaluation? What is it being devalued relative to? I am not trying to be obtuse, I am wondering how anyone would know. If it is devalued relative to commodities, then prices should rise, and we would have inflation. If it is devalued relative to other currencies, then we would see a diminished standard of living compared to the societies with the stronger currency. If it is devalued relative to gold, then you will be rich :)</blockquote>


Commodities absolutely. What have the price of oil, wheat, rice, natural gas, gold, silver, copper, iron ore, etc, done in the last three to four years? Check out any long term commodity chart. Devalued in terms of what you can buy for a dollar.</blockquote>


In order for that to be the case, wouldn't there have to be some competing currency somewhere with the ability to pay more for these commodities than those who hold US Dollars? If all currencies fall, who is left to bid up commodity prices? I am not being argumentative, I am really trying to decipher the mechanism by which this would work.</blockquote>


Central banks, including ours, can and are printing as much as they want. And more money supply does not translate into more money for J6pk to buy what he needs or wants.</blockquote>


If I follow you correctly, the devaluation of currency relative to commodities is a function of money supply. The new capital is flowing into commodities (or will flow into commodities) causing a continuation of the bull market. Basically, commodities will be the next bubble.
 
[quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1223352676][quote author="awgee" date=1223352435][quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1223342101][quote author="awgee" date=1223340996][quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1223340255][quote author="awgee" date=1223339860][quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1223332576][quote author="awgee" date=1223325641]The following analogy is a bit harsh and in no way is meant to offend or denigrate opposing viewpoints. It is the best way I know to make my point.



The USD index is useful for Forex traders, but is not particularly useful when discussing or computing the strength of the dollar. Determining the strength of the dollar by comparing it to the Euro is like comparing the odors of two different piles of dog poop before stepping in one pile and entering one's home. No matter which pile has the least offensive odor, they are both piles of poop and it is better to avoid both before entering one's home.</blockquote>


That is funny.



You and Peter Schiff may be right. There is one main reason I have a hard time imagining a collapse of all currencies including the dollar: where else is the money supposed to go? I know you guys like gold, partly because gold has been a currency, but gold is not a currency any more. I haven't seen too many people going to the grocery store with gold bullion lately. Unless gold makes a comeback as a true currency (possible but unlikely,) people will need to keep their money in a currency they can actually use: people will still need to select the least smelly pile of crap. I just don't see us (as a world) abandoning fiat currency altogether.</blockquote>


Devaluation of a currency does not necessitate the non-use of that currency by the normal users. Devaluation necessitates only an increased supply or the perception of an increased supply. I do not foresee the abandonment of fiat currency either. I foresee an extreme devaluation of the dollar, the opposite of strength.</blockquote>


How would you measure this devaluation? What is it being devalued relative to? I am not trying to be obtuse, I am wondering how anyone would know. If it is devalued relative to commodities, then prices should rise, and we would have inflation. If it is devalued relative to other currencies, then we would see a diminished standard of living compared to the societies with the stronger currency. If it is devalued relative to gold, then you will be rich :)</blockquote>


Commodities absolutely. What have the price of oil, wheat, rice, natural gas, gold, silver, copper, iron ore, etc, done in the last three to four years? Check out any long term commodity chart. Devalued in terms of what you can buy for a dollar.</blockquote>


In order for that to be the case, wouldn't there have to be some competing currency somewhere with the ability to pay more for these commodities than those who hold US Dollars? If all currencies fall, who is left to bid up commodity prices? I am not being argumentative, I am really trying to decipher the mechanism by which this would work.</blockquote>


Central banks, including ours, can and are printing as much as they want. And more money supply does not translate into more money for J6pk to buy what he needs or wants.</blockquote>


If I follow you correctly, the devaluation of currency relative to commodities is a function of money supply. The new capital is flowing into commodities (or will flow into commodities) causing a continuation of the bull market. Basically, commodities will be the next bubble.</blockquote>


IMO, treasuries are in the present bubble. The average duration for a commodities bull market is twenty years, and we are about six years into it. I would not say commodities will be the next bubble, at least not for the next ten years or so. I would say we are in the first third of a commodities bull market. Too early to say with any degree of certainty, but it appears that gold is becoming a currency and that is why it is going up even though the USD index is increasing and it is decoupling from oil and other commodities. My definition of a currency in this case would not include small transactions, but rather a store of value.
 
I've found ever since the .com bubble people use the word "bubble" waaaaay too much. Just because something is going up doesn't mean it's a bubble.



Something being overvalued 30% does not qualify as a "bubble" in my book. Individual stocks get overvalued 30% everyday of the week.



It used to be the word "bubble" was sparsely used and reserved for something that would happen once in a generation. Now we got the dot com bubble, the real estate bubble, commodities bubble, oil bubble, solar energy bubble, agriculture bubble, etc. etc. Seems like if you earned more than 5% this year you're guilty of having participated in a "bubble".



Commodities hardly strike me as bubble behavior. It took years to get what they are now, clearly this wsn't an overnight success. Oil maybe.



The run-up in early 2008 was rather overdone, as people tried to avoid equities and went for the next asset class that was supposed to be uncorrelated to the stock market. I know I did. More risk aversion behavior than greed in my view. Guess that didn't work out either.



I've read the sentence "commodities bubble" a zillion times now. What about a "bank bubble"? Actually never seen that sentence once. Everybody knows now their business model is broken - but somehow that sentence never made it in everyday language.
 
Is the US economy experiencing deflation? Or inflation?



<a href="http://www.321gold.com/editorials/saville/saville100708.html">Steve Saville</a>



<a href="http://www.nowandfutures.com/key_stats.html#m3b">M3 and M2 if you look around a bit</a>
 
[quote author="optimusprime" date=1223419844]Panda...if the American Economy is in total collapse...just have a gun because all your "Profits" won't be redeemable. :)</blockquote>


Man you guys are depressing. Can't wait for this to be over one day.
 
[quote author="muzie" date=1223420976][quote author="optimusprime" date=1223419844]Panda...if the American Economy is in total collapse...just have a gun because all your "Profits" won't be redeemable. :)</blockquote>


Man you guys are depressing. Can't wait for this to be over one day.</blockquote>


i believe all these events r cyclic, like all other old crisis it will also pass, make take little long, but it will certainly pass, no other country can pass USA as a economic power. its all bs that ind/china/rus, all of them depends on US consumers. if US does bad whole world goes down. all countries need a fin. strong US.
 
[quote author="irvine2010" date=1223423857][quote author="muzie" date=1223420976][quote author="optimusprime" date=1223419844]Panda...if the American Economy is in total collapse...just have a gun because all your "Profits" won't be redeemable. :)</blockquote>


Man you guys are depressing. Can't wait for this to be over one day.</blockquote>


i believe all these events r cyclic, like all other old crisis it will also pass, make take little long, but it will certainly pass, no other country can pass USA as a economic power. its all bs that ind/china/rus, all of them depends on US consumers. if US does bad whole world goes down. all countries need a fin. strong US.</blockquote>


I mean if we don't consume their goods, who will? US has got a monopoly on consumption, it just takes to long to perfect all the over-eating and excess purchasing that we pull off. ind/china/rus couldn't find a use for all the crap they export, they prolly don't know how to even use most of it. They sure are lucky they have got us to take it all off their hands.
 
Ah I agree things are bad, and likely to get worse.



But the language you're using is as if we'll all be sent to the poorhouse next month, we'll all travel on foot as we won't be able to afford cars, and we'll be eating one potato a week. There's just a matter of degree here, and it seems some people are going overboard with the pessimistic language.



I, for one, intend to continue working to the best of my ability and have confidence I can use whatever skills I have to survive, and learn new skills as may be required. And if for whatever reason things get so bad that everybody's out of a job, well I'll either pack my stuff and go work elsewhere or take a sabbatical and go traveling a bit.



It's a crisis of confidence we have now, and making jokes about how we'll need guns and gold to protect ourselves from one another doesn't exactly help the situation, does it? :-P. Not to mention it doesn't show very strong hopes for the human spirit. At this point this thing just gathers momentum, and the more people think like this, the more we all make each other suffer.
 
<blockquote>It's a crisis of confidence we have now, and making jokes about how we'll need guns and gold to protect ourselves from one another doesn't exactly help the situation, does it? :-P. Not to mention it doesn't show very strong hopes for the human spirit. At this point this thing just gathers momentum, and the more people think like this, the more we all make each other suffer.</blockquote>


Muzie...one will fall and another will rise.

Human existance will not cease to exist, so you don't have to worry. Could there be a major shift in wealth and power between people in america, you betcha! Some are worried about the economic situation, and personally I am beyond thrilled with it because of the potential opportunities it presents to me. Yes me. There I said.



At the same time (no offense to anybody) during the housing bubble "I" was the joke. I was the idiot for not investing in real-estate. People I came in contact with looked at me like something was wrong with me, like I didn't get something. "Is this guy stupid? whats wrong with him."

On a daily basis people in my office were talking about how much their homes appreciated and what they bought and what they will buy. It sucked and made me feel like sh**!



Today things are different. But at the same time out of respect I don't walk up to those same people and say HAHA you sucker, you just lost 200K in equity. I know somebody personally who bought a home for 320, watched it go to 550, took 120K in equity and invested in the stock market to profit even more. Today he lost most of the 120K and lost most of the home equity and is on a verge of divorce due to the financial hardship. This is the same guy that was notoriously reminding me everyday how much he is profiting and how rich he is and continue to be. He is a very very quiet guy today.



So I understand your perspective where we shouldn't make jokes or don't talk about the bad times because of the way it makes us feel, but I can't help the fact that it makes me feel fuzzy and warm inside when the situation is flipped.



Like I said it really should be in your face HAHA you stupid idiot for investing in real-estate thats what you get, as that is what I got. So laughing to a general joke is pretty respectful all things considered.



I'm not saying you are one of these people Muzie as I don't know you. I'm just speaking in general.
 
[quote author="blackvault" date=1223436836]<blockquote>

HAHA you stupid idiot for investing in real-estate thats what you get

</blockquote>
not always, he tried at the peak and failed.

investment is always profitable if play by the rule,patience and hardwork, doesn't matter whether its real-estate or stocks. it does work.
 
[quote author="upperlowerclass" date=1223424856][quote author="irvine2010" date=1223423857][quote author="muzie" date=1223420976][quote author="optimusprime" date=1223419844]Panda...if the American Economy is in total collapse...just have a gun because all your "Profits" won't be redeemable. :)</blockquote>


Man you guys are depressing. Can't wait for this to be over one day.</blockquote>


i believe all these events r cyclic, like all other old crisis it will also pass, make take little long, but it will certainly pass, no other country can pass USA as a economic power. its all bs that ind/china/rus, all of them depends on US consumers. if US does bad whole world goes down. all countries need a fin. strong US.</blockquote>


I mean if we don't consume their goods, who will? US has got a monopoly on consumption, it just takes to long to perfect all the over-eating and excess purchasing that we pull off. ind/china/rus couldn't find a use for all the crap they export, they prolly don't know how to even use most of it. They sure are lucky they have got us to take it all off their hands.</blockquote>


Wow.... you guys are joking right?
 
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