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sgip

sgip

Well-known member
With many new builds beginning to look just like every other property - repeat floorplans with minor tweaks, etc - wondering if there would be any interest in a neighborhood of "old timey" homes. This question comes out of an OC Register article about a refurbished home in Anaheim:

https://www.redfin.com/CA/Anaheim/194-N-Vintage-Ln-92805/home/3202816

The article doesn't have the same number of pictures, so the Redfin link is a better source.

10,000 SF lot
3,300 SF
5 Br, 3.5 BA
1st level bedroom
500 SF basement
BONUS 4CG!

The specs for this 112 year old home are pretty much what most high end OH/HC buyers are looking for. The current batch of homes being built however, especially at HC I find to be ghastly in terms of any kind of charm, are too cookie cutter. How many "Tuscan" or "Mediterranean" exteriors can you see before they all just bland blend together.

I'd guess with interior modernization - kitchen, bath's AC, etc - the cost to build is relatively equal to most of the current homes being planned. Although this home is $989k in Anaheim, you could assume it to run $2m or so in Irvine with most of the $$$ coming from the 10,000 ft lot.

Seeing how fast some of the more unique homes in BP sold, if a builder was willing to go "all in" and put up a neighborhood of retro homes like this in Irvine, would there be the demand to purchase, or should "modern Tuscan" the preferred look to stick with?

Comments encouraged

SGIP
 
I use to live in that neighborhood when I was a kid (late 70s).  Lived on N. Vine Street.  Our gang of kids believed those houses by the RR track were haunted.  I drove by that neighborhood last year just to see my old house.  That neighborhood looks worse now then I remembered it.  Lots of people (mexicans) loitering around.  The apartments just north of Cypress always seemed sketchy to my young mind.

Since it's close to Disneyland, you would hear the fireworks at 9-9:30...don't remember anymore.  It's loud but comforting.
 
It's still a sketchy neighborhood.

If this house was built in Irvine, behind gates, at the suspected price of $2m my guess is that the area wouldn't become as blighted as Anaheim has.

My .02c

SGIP
 
SGIP, are you thinking about the facade or the lot size in Irvine? 

If facade, houses like the one you noted look great because they look unique and fit well in their street.  That doesn't happen on any tract build and usually happens organically over time.  Otherwise it ends up looking artificial and out of place. 

As far as HC, I think the house blend into each other not because of the similar style but because of the proximity to each other and how cramped it feels with no deep set backs. 

Emerson in Tustin Ranch is a beautiful neighborhood with much larger lots and spacing and pretty similar styles of houses.  Yet I never feel like I am seeing the same house over and over driving through that area.
 
Style, but also the general build, including detached garages. Adapting 100 year old floor plans wouldn't be that hard to do. You'd also need a 10k SF homesite to build something like this property anyway.

Agreed on the organic look growing from a neighborhood. It would be near impossible to re-do Floral Park or The Orange Circle, but no one seems to at least be trying to do so. Down South, the early 2000's Ladera Ranch Master Planned Community pulled off several unique neighborhoods. Their focused planning has kept any feel of fakery down to a strict minimum. It can be done.

My .02c
 
Soylent Green Is People said:
It's still a sketchy neighborhood.

If this house was built in Irvine, behind gates, at the suspected price of $2m my guess is that the area wouldn't become as blighted as Anaheim has.

My .02c

SGIP
Click to expand...
Most Irvine buyers want good schools. They tolerate the cookie-cutter feel, small lots, shallow set-backs, no driveways, cramped lots, etc. for the advantages of living in Irvine...not the least of which is the public schools. This home has schools rated 2, 3, and 5, so most Irvine buyers wouldn't even consider. And if this type of home on this sized lot were in Irvine behind gates, then it would justify that $2M price. And with those prices the neighborhood is going to be much 'nicer' and safer, which is why people live in Irvine of course. I grew up in a so-so neighborhood myself so I appreciate the value of being in a nice neighborhood. But Irvine sells itself, so why not try something different?
 
There is no 10,000 sf lot in Irvine currently and ever. It is 100'x100'. A new home of this level of charm will never exist. Only a few in the USA could design beautiful homes like this and I am one of them. There is still an "if" whether a developer and builder would go along with it. If so where are we going to find a Pedro or Juan with this level of artisan craftsmanship? 

Let?s study this. 10,000 sf lot must have a street for your car to drive in and out of the property. 100'x57'=5700sf. The total area of land will be 15,700sf. Just raw land alone would cost you $1.44 m. To build a 3,300 sf 4-square style home with shingles and siding would run about $500/sf at $1.65m.  At the most conservative you are looking at $3.09 m and you are the builder and doing everything at cost assuming the architectural fee, structural engineering fee, civil engineering fee, geotechnical engineer fee, landscape architect fee and permit fee are nada. Builder?s profit and overhead plus utility lines, landscape and furnishing will normally take this project to about $4.5-5m.

 
aquabliss said:
irvinehomeshopper said:
There is no 10,000 sf lot in Irvine currently and ever.
Click to expand...
https://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/21-Chester-92603/home/4745716https://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/5-Prairie-Grass-92603/home/5892526https://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/1-Silver-Cres-92603/home/4742989https://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/5576-Kingsford-Ter-92603/home/4740840
Click to expand...

Hidden canyon last phase all were over 10k and one was half acre.

Tons of 10k lots at the vistas.

4.5 million for a home like that in Irvine?? Whole  post seems exaggerated.
 
10,000 sf lots are not practical for the developers and home builders for now and the future due to the return on large acreage without construction on it. With construction the home builder could charge $400/sf. Without construction may be $130/sf for lot premium. Every now and then for lots that extend uphill or down hill along a curve streets there will be a few 10,000 sf+ lots trapezoidal or pie shaped anomalies but the area within the slope is not usable or the area in the wedge is calculated but not buildable. I still hold my ground there will not be a perfect rectangular and flat 10,000sf lot for new production home constructions.

aquabliss said:
irvinehomeshopper said:
There is no 10,000 sf lot in Irvine currently and ever.
Click to expand...
https://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/21-Chester-92603/home/4745716https://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/5-Prairie-Grass-92603/home/5892526https://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/1-Silver-Cres-92603/home/4742989https://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/5576-Kingsford-Ter-92603/home/4740840
Click to expand...
 
Ihs, what about possibly bringing back kit homes / mill cut / catalog homes like the old fashioned Sears catalog homes. I know they're not up to your standards of quality but neither are most Irvine stucco boxes. At least they are cute to the untrained eye. Some can resemble the home SGIP linked to. The best part is Pedro, Juan, and all their day laborer cousins can build them without difficulty.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sears_Catalog_Homehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kit_houses_in_North_America

SGIP's idea:
genMid.PW17082413_0.jpg


Sears' idea:
Modern_reproduction_of_a_Sears_Hillrose_catalog_house_in_Battle_Ground_Indiana.jpg
 
irvinehomeshopper said:
10,000 sf lots are not practical for the developers and home builders for now and the future due to the return on large acreage without construction on it. With construction the home builder could charge $400/sf. Without construction may be $130/sf for lot premium. Every now and then for lots that extend uphill or down hill along a curve streets there will be a few 10,000 sf+ lots trapezoidal or pie shaped anomalies but the area within the slope is not usable or the area in the wedge is calculated but not buildable. I still hold my ground there will not be a perfect rectangular and flat 10,000sf lot for new production home constructions.

aquabliss said:
irvinehomeshopper said:
There is no 10,000 sf lot in Irvine currently and ever.
Click to expand...
https://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/21-Chester-92603/home/4745716https://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/5-Prairie-Grass-92603/home/5892526https://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/1-Silver-Cres-92603/home/4742989https://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/5576-Kingsford-Ter-92603/home/4740840
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

first you said that there are no 10K sq ft lots in irvine now and ever.  you were proven wrong.

then you backtracked and somehow added a condition that the lots have to be RECTANGULAR and FLAT and in NEW CONSTRUCTION.

just go to the site plan for alta vista at OH.  lots of 10K and even up to 13K sq ft rectangular and flat lots.
 
Ok I am wrong. I did see those lot sizes Toll Brothers are offering. Apparently Toll is off my radar. Love the big lots but those homes got to go. I am not familiar with this company's MO and I need to study it's financial economic. Those large lot size and homes on them for $2m is a huge bargain. When land is $4m per acre the math just don't add up unless Toll bought the land really cheap.
 
BruinDoc said:
Soylent Green Is People said:
It's still a sketchy neighborhood.

If this house was built in Irvine, behind gates, at the suspected price of $2m my guess is that the area wouldn't become as blighted as Anaheim has.

My .02c

SGIP
Click to expand...
Most Irvine buyers want good schools. They tolerate the cookie-cutter feel, small lots, shallow set-backs, no driveways, cramped lots, etc. for the advantages of living in Irvine...not the least of which is the public schools. This home has schools rated 2, 3, and 5, so most Irvine buyers wouldn't even consider. And if this type of home on this sized lot were in Irvine behind gates, then it would justify that $2M price. And with those prices the neighborhood is going to be much 'nicer' and safer, which is why people live in Irvine of course. I grew up in a so-so neighborhood myself so I appreciate the value of being in a nice neighborhood. But Irvine sells itself, so why not try something different?
Click to expand...

THIS has everything to do with why most of us (especially younger parents with young children) buy in Irvine. Yes we could get so much more for our money outside of Irvine but the benefits of Irvine definitely outweigh the impediments. And for people that love organization, cleanliness and are obsessed with aesthetics of a city - Irvine is the perfect place. It's as simple as less visible power lines, no billboards, matching shopping center signs. everything looks master- planned as its all meant to be and some of us love that. I also love the idea of the common areas (parks, pools, tennis courts) because some busy young families don't like large lots with a lot of land to maintain. We can walk the kids 1 block to the pool, parks, Bball courts to play and walk back without needing to maintain pools and large patches of grass.

irvinehomeshopper said:
Ok I am wrong. I did see those lot sizes Toll Brothers are offering. Apparently Toll is off my radar. Love the big lots but those homes got to go. I am not familiar with this company's MO and I need to study it's financial economic. Those large lot size and homes on them for $2m is a huge bargain. When land is $4m per acre the math just don't add up unless Toll bought the land really cheap.
Click to expand...

IHS these are 6000sqft homes sitting on 10k sqft lots in Alta Vista. And they start base price at $2.7mil with upgrades easily into $3mil range. I don't think Toll is being overly generous with these lot sizes. If I was a buyer here I would expect at least 10k lot size with view and 12k if no view.
 
I am seldom wrong but I am wrong here. It is a huge risk to do large lots.

10,000 sf lot meant about 3.3 units per acre. 3 units per acre. 3x$2.7m=$8.1m

$8.1m/2=$4m    That is correct that Toll bought land at 4m/acre

The math works out perfect at $2.7m per home. The risk is huge because absorption at this price point meant a very small pool of buyers. I would never advise my clients to take this type of gamble. It's better to sell 10 houses at $800k at a much faster pace. At $2.7 it's approaching custom and buyers will be extremely discerning and picky.
 
irvinehomeshopper said:
I am seldom wrong but I am wrong here. It is a huge risk to do large lots.

10,000 sf lot meant about 3.3 units per acre. 3 units per acre. 3x$2.7m=$8.1m

$8.1m/2=$4m    That is correct that Toll bought land at 4m/acre

The math works out perfect at $2.7m per home. The risk is huge because absorption at this price point meant a very small pool of buyers. I would never advise my clients to take this type of gamble. It's better to sell 10 houses at $800k at a much faster pace. At $2.7 it's approaching custom and buyers will be extremely discerning and picky.
Click to expand...

Toll must be completely off your radar. They have done well taking these types of gambles. Just look at hidden canyon. They are basically the only game in town for these types of McMansion homes with larger lots and views in Irvine.

In the vistas thread someone posted how much toll paid for the land. People seemed to agree that it was a bargain, which suggests toll paid less than 4m/acre.
 
That is not possible for TIC to sell land less than $4m/ac. Unless Bren is in a hurry to sell off the only remaining land before he finally retires. The only possibility is someone he trusted sold the land without him knowing. If that was the case I doubt that person is there any longer.
 
I think for me, it's not so much the exterior design, although that is a huge factor, it's the interior floorplan and functionality.

What some experimental builder should do is create modular floorplans and then let buyers pick how they want them and so these homes are semi-custom. Stuff like Great Room+formal dining+living room or Super Great Room+den/library/music room or 3CWG or 2CWG+den/bedroom.

They can do the same with the exteriors, you can choose from a range of styles... Tuscan, Modern, Craftsman etc. The neighborhood would look a little wonky but that would be the appeal as every house would not look exactly the same.
 
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