Tustin Military Base Could Be Toxic.

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I've been wondering about this as well.



I do have a couple of fruit trees in my backyard...does anyone know if such a service/company exists where I could send them a sample of our fruit, and they get back to me with a breakdown of what, if any, chemicals are in the fruit?
 
[quote author="khung" date=1209545915]I've been wondering about this as well.



I do have a couple of fruit trees in my backyard...does anyone know if such a service/company exists where I could send them a sample of our fruit, and they get back to me with a breakdown of what, if any, chemicals are in the fruit?</blockquote>


If there <strong>is </strong>such a company and if they <strong>do </strong>find something, you've just become the face of a class-action suit and a multimillionaire.
 
[quote author="asianinvasian" date=1209544473]So what you are saying is Legacy Park (Tustin) and Great Park (Irvine) are two big conspiracy theories.</blockquote>


Great Park is much worse in term of ground pollution. It was the El Toro Air Base where the heart of the air defense operation was in protecting the West Coast and our Pacific Rim Allies during WWII and through out the era communist threat that resulted in massive maintenance debris and chemical burial. Nothing were ever transported out of site for recycling and neutralization. Black smoke from burning debris were visible for miles even during the early 90's when society was already very concerned for the environment.



Columbus and Legacy were once all on one contiguous piece of land. The original Jamboree used to dead end into Barranca. Jamboree was not yet built in Tustin Ranch until the 80's and even back then it stopped only at the Fwy 5 and not connected to Barranca end of Jamboree.



The pollution spread is a lot easier to visualize when all the legacy and Columbus neighborhoods were once all connected. Black smoke burnings were seen there frequently as well.



Greedy Builders have chased after the Weapon and artillery site at Seal Beach for many years. Explosive were frequently buried into the ground as part of the drills. Bunkers and numerous defensive contours were created to simulate battle conditions as well as the practices of explosions and firing of artillery. This piece of land is extremely volatile and unpredictable due to explosives and buried bombs even the Defense Department prohibits any uses on there. There are guards there to prevent transients and kids stepping into the site.



4 sites were closed by the Clinton Administration in OC and LA. They were Tustin Marine, El Toro Air, Seal Beach Naval Weapon, and Long Beach Naval.
 
[quote author="IrvineRealtor" date=1209547041][quote author="khung" date=1209545915]I've been wondering about this as well.



I do have a couple of fruit trees in my backyard...does anyone know if such a service/company exists where I could send them a sample of our fruit, and they get back to me with a breakdown of what, if any, chemicals are in the fruit?</blockquote>


If there <strong>is </strong>such a company and if they <strong>do </strong>find something, you've just become the face of a class-action suit and a multimillionaire.</blockquote>


Plant a bunch of fruit trees that have deep root system and test them periodically and keep a log of chemical substances produce by the same tree for 10 sequencial years. The intent is to show no chemical composition during its infancy and as the trees matured they also root deeply as well and sucks up substance buried deep below the replaced dirt level.



Allow me to contact Erin Brockovich for you. She can help you win. Your family would need to display symtoms of sickness as well. Contaminated fruits without accompanying life threatening illiness may not win you much compensation. How about eating the fruits and get really sick then you have a winning case.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1209548898][quote author="IrvineRealtor" date=1209547041][quote author="khung" date=1209545915]I've been wondering about this as well.



I do have a couple of fruit trees in my backyard...does anyone know if such a service/company exists where I could send them a sample of our fruit, and they get back to me with a breakdown of what, if any, chemicals are in the fruit?</blockquote>


If there <strong>is </strong>such a company and if they <strong>do </strong>find something, you've just become the face of a class-action suit and a multimillionaire.</blockquote>


Plant a bunch of fruit trees that have deep root system and test them periodically and keep a log of chemical substances produce by the same tree for 10 sequencial years. The intent is to show no chemical composition during its infancy and as the trees matured they also root deeply as well and sucks up substance buried deep below the replaced dirt level.



Allow me to contact Erin Brockovich for you. She can help you win. Your family would need to display symtoms of sickness as well. Contaminated fruits without accompanying life threatening illiness may not win you much compensation. How about eating the fruits and get really sick then you have a winning case.</blockquote>


Or read the fine print that you signed when you bought at VoC that said you can't plant fruits or vegetables.



Personally, when I buy, I will avoid knowing anything about the history of the land under my house and my neighborhood. Sometimes ignorance is bliss and there are just too many other things to worry about :)
 
Thanks RKP,



That clause is a dead giveaway that there are bad things under the house and around the house. A question for RE experts when the property has a change of ownership are the original disclosure statements between builder and buyers required to be enforced for the subsequent buyers of the same property? Could someday a homeowner not knowing about the the disclosure statement and consumed fruits and vegetables from the existing yard and decided to sue to builders? The previous owners might have planted a lemon tree for fruits for cleaning the garbage disposal.



I do not think I would be able to find peace knowing that my foundation is built on top of toxic land and having to go through life worrying about potential unknown side effect could happen to my family. The $$$saving is not worth the worry that I have to endure. Resale will be difficult when potential buyers will always use the same excuse for price negotiation or go to another neighboring communities for a safer environment.



My prediction the resale absoption for Columbus and Legacy will be very poor for many years. It will always be a step child to the neighboring villages.









[quote author="rkp" date=1209552010][quote author="bkshopr" date=1209548898][quote author="IrvineRealtor" date=1209547041][quote author="khung" date=1209545915]I've been wondering about this as well.



I do have a couple of fruit trees in my backyard...does anyone know if such a service/company exists where I could send them a sample of our fruit, and they get back to me with a breakdown of what, if any, chemicals are in the fruit?</blockquote>


If there <strong>is </strong>such a company and if they <strong>do </strong>find something, you've just become the face of a class-action suit and a multimillionaire.</blockquote>


Plant a bunch of fruit trees that have deep root system and test them periodically and keep a log of chemical substances produce by the same tree for 10 sequencial years. The intent is to show no chemical composition during its infancy and as the trees matured they also root deeply as well and sucks up substance buried deep below the replaced dirt level.



Allow me to contact Erin Brockovich for you. She can help you win. Your family would need to display symtoms of sickness as well. Contaminated fruits without accompanying life threatening illiness may not win you much compensation. How about eating the fruits and get really sick then you have a winning case.</blockquote>


Or read the fine print that you signed when you bought at VoC that said you can't plant fruits or vegetables.



Personally, when I buy, I will avoid knowing anything about the history of the land under my house and my neighborhood. Sometimes ignorance is bliss and there are just too many other things to worry about :)</blockquote>
 
I'm pretty sure that Seal Beach Naval Weapons is still open, and <a href="http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/seal_beach.htm">from what I read</a>, development would be difficult for a number of reasons.
 
[quote author="EvaLSeraphim" date=1209557265]I'm pretty sure that Seal Beach Naval Weapons is still open, and <a href="http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/seal_beach.htm">from what I read</a>, development would be difficult for a number of reasons.</blockquote>


Thank you! You are amazing with your research. I know the base still has personel but is this only for passive activities and not longer active for training.
 
Bubblegum is correct. There is a plume and it is very deep, but it is under most of irvine as well. I guess Portola Springs is also out due to the proximity to the Frank R Bowerman landfill.
 
Let's just say there are contaminates at VOC. How does it really affect the homeowner? To what degree?

If you dont eat the fruits grown there...LOL
 
Seal Beach is an active Naval Weapons Base. Those mounds that you see, and other areas that you DON'T see are full of ordnance. It is one of the locations where they resupply warships prior to deployment. I have a buddy stationed there and it is all the way live.
 
[quote author="CM_Dude" date=1209619244]Seal Beach is an active Naval Weapons Base. Those mounds that you see, and other areas that you DON'T see are full of ordnance. It is one of the locations where they resupply warships prior to deployment. I have a buddy stationed there and it is all the way live.</blockquote>


That could be dream location - a guard-gated community, set amidst beautiful rolling hills, along the coast - sign me up.
 
BK, I am in the land use business myself, and would love to know who you were talking to. Actually, I don't want to know! The BRAC proceedings for these bases are all public documents, including the remediation information. The historical uses at both MCAS El Toro and Tustin were dirty, dirty, dirty - all kinds of fuel, solvents, etc. spilled, leaked and dumped. Part of the process for closing these and reverting them to civilian use is cleaning them up. The devil is in the details. To what standard did they clean them up, and what did the last core samples and monitoring well results reveal? there were large plumes of contaminated groundwater, does anyone know the fate of those?



Anyone really interested should head on down to UCI, the repository for the MCAS Tustin environmental documents.

http://www.bracpmo.navy.mil/bracbases/california/tustin/info_repository.aspx



These documents, which have been archived, should provide some information:



December 2004, Former MCAS Tustin Fact Sheet, OU-1A and OU-1B Remedial Design/Remedial Action



July 2004, Proposed Plan/Draft Remedial Action Plan for Operable Unit 4A Former MCAS Tustin



February 2004, Former MCAS Tustin Fact Sheet Status of Installation Restoration Program Cleanup Activities at OU-1A/OU-1B and Arsenic AOC



August 2003, Proposed Plan/Draft Remedial Action Plan for Operable Unit 1A Former MCAS Tustin



The California Department of Toxic Substances Control, has a website for MCAS Tustin. http://www.envirostor.dtsc.ca.gov/public/profile_report.asp?global_id=80001203



A report from 9/07 shows contaminated groundwater above acceptable cleanup levels, and clean-up was initiated.



http://www.envirostor.dtsc.ca.gov/regulators/deliverable_documents/7638828873/Prjt_Memo_9-4-07.pdf



A report from 11/07 shows that they are still finding stuff while excavating.http://www.envirostor.dtsc.ca.gov/r...nts/4877454459/Tustin_Legacy_Memo_11-7-07.pdf



They are actively working the site, and no houses could have been built unless DTSC and the other responsible agencies signed off on the clean-up activities for the impacted area. Does that mean it is pristine? NO. But anyone buying at the site of a former military base who does not do their due diligence deserves what they get, IMHO. If I was going to spend $400k and up for a property there, I'd certainly read the reports!
 
[quote author="CM_Dude" date=1209620400]

They are actively working the site, and no houses could have been built unless DTSC and the other responsible agencies signed off on the clean-up activities for the impacted area. Does that mean it is pristine? NO. But anyone buying at the site of a former military base who does not do their due diligence deserves what they get, IMHO. If I was going to spend $400k and up for a property there, I'd certainly read the reports!</blockquote>


Thanks CM_Dude. I agree, you should read up on this stuff. But, if these agencies approved it, wouldn't their write ups support their approval?



It's kinda like Bush's WMD. The intelligence supported it or not, etc. but was it really there?

Who cares? We went to war anyway!



So my question is, If the contaminates are there, what can it do to you and your family if you breathe the air there everyday?

Wouldnt the surrounding areas be affected also? You're not going to eat the dirt or anything else from the soil so the air should be the only thing that can contaminate you. RIGHT?
 
It is always a risk when dealing with brownfields. Many big box retail stores are built on remediated land, often with ongoing remediation occurring everyday through extraction systems that constantly chip away at the plumes. Other remediation tactics include mixing certain media into contaminated soils which renders the constituent of concern "safe" or at least stabilized.



The MCAS Tustin work was signed off on by DTSC, and I assume the EPA, RWQCB, SCAQMD, County, etc. However, short of excavating all contaminated soils, there is only so much that they can do. Testing is done by taking core samples and drilling monitoring wells, along with other methods. Also, they only need to remediate below action levels in some cases.



If it were me, I'd read the report, check out the maps, and CALL DTSC and ask them. Some of the stuff down there is bad news, some not so bad. Contaminants exist everywhere. The groundwater in many parts of Southern California is totally contaminated, and is treated before municipal or industrial use. OC has problems with MTBE, the San Gabriel Valley has problems with perc and VOCs. http://www.wqa.com/images/map_02_02.gif Notably, they are drinking the water they have treated, so even though massive, extensive plumes exist, there are ways to deal with it.



You're not going to much pristine dirt in a built out urban area, but knowing what is down there and reading the reports will help with peace of mind.
 
CM pretty much said it all :)



the smoke bk mentions was probably from the soil vapor extraction systems used on site during cleanup.



the ramp mentioned is the approach for the future bridge crossing edinger. they generally will overbuild it, let it sit for a while and settle, trim to grade, and finish construction. the thing will probably settle anyway and you'll get a nice bump when you hit the bridge. generally speaking, excavated/stockpiled contaminated soil is usually covered with visqueen/plastic. not always the case, i've been to sites in l.a. that cover the soil but that's generally part of the storm protection plan - don't want the soil eroding and ending up in the streets and storm drains or becoming saturated if rain is in the forecast.



like CM mention, i'd also venture to guess that the areas most heavily impacted will never see a house - those are the areas they generally cleanup and build commercial buildings on. i don't know what's planned or had anything to do with the construction of the district but they could also do things like vapor barriers, etc. the home depot in burbank is located on the old ITT site and was, to quote CM, dirty, dirty, dirty. i'd have to pull the report but there was a lot of money spent developing that property and the property around it for commercial use. there are different cleanup requirements to build a school or for soil imported to a school site. we have worked on projects where clients demanded that imported soil adhere to the more stringent requirements at commercial sites.



you want a dirty military base - google the crap at hanford.
 
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