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[quote author="Nude" date=1255573813][quote author="Stuff It" date=1255570481]I would like to fuel the flames, so:



Are you saying that the US would have given Bin Laden fair and humane treatment if he had been handed over? I suspect not</blockquote>


He would have been tried and, if found guilty, executed. Remember, we asked the Taliban to surrender ObL and AQ to us and they refused but <strong><em>we did make the request first</em></strong>. Exactly how he would have been tried might be arguable, but had the Taliban acted quickly to turn them over, they'd still be in power and we wouldn't be at war with them.</blockquote>


And you are basing that large assumption on what?
 
[quote author="Nude" date=1255576735][quote author="Stuff It" date=1255576214]I think you missed my point - or ignored it.



He would not have received humane treatment. He would have been tortured and then executed. Torturing is not considered humane treatment and in many states/countries execution is also not considered humane treatment.</blockquote>


And you are basing that large assumption on what?</blockquote>


I think recent history speaks for itself: Guantanamo bay
 
Nude.

Thanks for the Personal Insults.

I thought you had me on Ignore ?



So Cal. Get your wooden spoon out for Nude. He crossed the line.
 
[quote author="trrenter" date=1255576125]<blockquote></blockquote>[quote author="bltserv" date=1255572001][quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1255570796]

and I don't think the goal of the military is to spread democracy over there... it's to prevent blood from spreading over here</blockquote>


Thats a classic line.

So you have a bunch of guys hiding in caves. At last count around 15,000.



<a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/Afghanistan/article6869503.ece#">http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/Afghanistan/article6869503.ece#</a>



Now we may pay them off see the article above. I love this line too.



<blockquote>Afghans are known for changing sides back and forth during their long years of war ? there is an old saying that ?you can rent an Afghan but never buy one? ? and battles have often been decided by defections rather than combat.

</blockquote>


If giving some Towel Head on the otherside of the planet extra cash is your idea of feeling safer. So be It.

Your never going to stop a religon. Islamic Fundamentalism is a not a country you can wage war with either.

Until more Arab countries are forced to become Secular. Like Turkey. This problem will never go away.

Do some research. The Taliban form of Islam is very similar to the Saudi form called Wahhabi that is

the accepted way of life in Saudi Arabia.



Your going to do more good invading Saudi Arabia if you really want to make us safer.

Spending billions chasing a few thousand guys around the mountains of Afghanistan is a total waste.</blockquote>


Yet Obama promised to increase the amount of Troops in Afghanastan and promises that this is the way to keep the US safe.



<a href="http://www.tnr.com/blog/william-galston/will-obama-follow-through-his-afghanistan-promise#">Will Obama Follow Through on his Afghanistan Promise?</a>



Obama Stated

<blockquote>So let me be clear: Al Qaeda and its allies--the terrorist who planned and supported the 9/11 attacks--are in Pakistan and Afghanistan.</blockquote>


Obama Stated

<blockquote>As President, my greatest responsibility is to protect the American people. We are not in Afghanistan to control that country or to dictate its future. We are in Afghanistan to confront a common enemy that threatens the United States, our friends and our allies,</blockquote>


<strong>So I guess Obama is needlessly waging a war and yet won a Peace Prize</strong></blockquote>




My best guess is that Obama pays off the Taliban and uses the same process we are using as we exit Iraq.

Leave a few bases. Support the local government. And get out of country in an orderly fashion.



Looks like the Taliban and Al Qaeda may no longer be linked these days. This is from tomorrows news.

<a href="http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/KJ15Df01.html">http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/KJ15Df01.html</a>
 
[quote author="Nude" date=1255574073]you've finally come out as a racist bigot</blockquote>


I know things get a bit rough in here, but you can't do that. Name-calling is crossing the line.
 
[quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1255580426][quote author="Nude" date=1255574073]you've finally come out as a racist bigot</blockquote>


I know things get a bit rough in here, but you can't do that. Name-calling is crossing the line.</blockquote>


With all due respect IR, he/she started the name calling:



[quote author="bltserv" date=1255572001]

If giving <strong>some Towel Head </strong>on the otherside of the planet</blockquote>


<blockquote>Main Entry: rac?ism

Pronunciation: ?r?-?si-z?m also -?shi-

Function: noun

Date: 1933



1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

2 : racial prejudice or discrimination



Main Entry: big?ot

Pronunciation: ?bi-g?t

Function: noun

Etymology: French, hypocrite, bigot

Date: 1660



: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance</blockquote>


I just called them out for it.
 
Nude.



Let me get this straight.

You want to kill these people for supporting Al-Qaeda.



But if I call the Taliban "Towel Heads" I am a bigot?



You are one confused human being my friend. Very strange indeed.



Shall we now continue the discussion please.
 
[quote author="bltserv" date=1255583380]Nude.



Let me get this straight.

You want to kill these people for supporting Al-Qaeda.



But if I call the Taliban "Towel Heads" I am a bigot?



You are one confused human being my friend. Very strange indeed.



Shall we now continue the discussion please.</blockquote>


I don't want to kill "those people" as most of them would love it if both sides would just leave them in peace. I want to kill, maim, or obliterate anyone that intends to harm American citizens. In that desire, I care not one whit who they are, where they are from, or what the color of their skin happens to be; none of that is relevant to my need to not see my countrymen killed simply because they exist.



Calling people "towel heads" is racist, and in this case was used as an adjective to describe the specific kind of bigotry being displayed.
 
[quote author="Stuff It" date=1255577989][quote author="Nude" date=1255576735][quote author="Stuff It" date=1255576214]I think you missed my point - or ignored it.



He would not have received humane treatment. He would have been tortured and then executed. Torturing is not considered humane treatment and in many states/countries execution is also not considered humane treatment.</blockquote>


And you are basing that large assumption on what?</blockquote>


I think recent history speaks for itself: Guantanamo bay</blockquote>


Camp X-ray was set-up not as a place to torture detainees, but as a place to warehouse combatants that were deemed too dangerous to allow to return to the battlefield because a) we couldn't figure out how to legally try them (military vs civic) because they did not fit under the definition of POW in the Geneva convention and b) because they would almost certainly rejoin the enemy ranks if released, and c) their own countries wouldn't take them. also, and this is no minor point, Camp X-Ray wasn't even a vague thought when we were asking for ObL and AQ to be turned over to us. Neither you, nor anyone else, has any idea what would have happened had they been turned over en masse to the American military, but I suspect that they would have been held and tried at the Hague, if not in NYC.
 
[quote author="Nude" date=1255584282][quote author="bltserv" date=1255583380]Nude.



Let me get this straight.

You want to kill these people for supporting Al-Qaeda.



But if I call the Taliban "Towel Heads" I am a bigot?



You are one confused human being my friend. Very strange indeed.



Shall we now continue the discussion please.</blockquote>


I don't want to kill "those people" as most of them would love it if both sides would just leave them in peace. I want to kill, maim, or obliterate anyone that intends to harm American citizens. In that desire, I care not one whit who they are, where they are from, or what the color of their skin happens to be; none of that is relevant to my need to not see my countrymen killed simply because they exist.



Calling people "towel heads" is racist, and in this case was used as an adjective to describe the specific kind of bigotry being displayed.</blockquote>


The intention alone of harm (apparently of American citizens only) is reason enough for you to kill or at least maim them (as you so sadistically put it)???. This speaks volumes about you ... I hope nobody ever accidentally scuffs your shoes.
 
[quote author="green_cactus" date=1255584860][quote author="Nude" date=1255584282][quote author="bltserv" date=1255583380]Nude.



Let me get this straight.

You want to kill these people for supporting Al-Qaeda.



But if I call the Taliban "Towel Heads" I am a bigot?



You are one confused human being my friend. Very strange indeed.



Shall we now continue the discussion please.</blockquote>


I don't want to kill "those people" as most of them would love it if both sides would just leave them in peace. I want to kill, maim, or obliterate anyone that intends to harm American citizens. In that desire, I care not one whit who they are, where they are from, or what the color of their skin happens to be; none of that is relevant to my need to not see my countrymen killed simply because they exist.



Calling people "towel heads" is racist, and in this case was used as an adjective to describe the specific kind of bigotry being displayed.</blockquote>


The intention alone of harm (apparently of American citizens only) is reason enough for you to kill or at least maim them (as you so sadistically put it)???. This speaks volumes about you ... I hope nobody ever accidentally scuffs your shoes.</blockquote>




C'mon do we need to be SOOO literal? I would imagine Nude is referring to the organizations who are actively plotting various terror acts against America and American citizens. Also, those who aid and embed those organizations.
 
[quote author="green_cactus" date=1255584860]The intention alone of harm (apparently of American citizens only) is reason enough for you to kill or at least maim them (as you so sadistically put it)???. This speaks volumes about you ... I hope nobody ever accidentally scuffs your shoes.</blockquote>


Really? You want to put this out there as an example of your reasoned and thoughtful discourse? You want to equate an accident with an intentional act of war? Well, that does explain how you could think Obama deserves the NPP.
 
<blockquote>My best guess is that Obama pays off the Taliban and uses the same process we are using as we exit Iraq.

Leave a few bases. Support the local government. And get out of country in an orderly fashion.



Looks like the Taliban and Al Qaeda may no longer be linked these days. This is from tomorrows news.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/KJ15Df01.html



[ Edited: 14 October 2009 02:14 PM by bltserv ]</blockquote>


<strong>So you are saying Obama was completly wrong with his whole Surge idea during the election. He doesn't know how to deal with the Middle East conflicts </strong>
 
[quote author="Nude" date=1255584767][quote author="Stuff It" date=1255577989][quote author="Nude" date=1255576735][quote author="Stuff It" date=1255576214]I think you missed my point - or ignored it.



He would not have received humane treatment. He would have been tortured and then executed. Torturing is not considered humane treatment and in many states/countries execution is also not considered humane treatment.</blockquote>


And you are basing that large assumption on what?</blockquote>


I think recent history speaks for itself: Guantanamo bay</blockquote>


Camp X-ray was set-up not as a place to torture detainees, but as a place to warehouse combatants that were deemed too dangerous to allow to return to the battlefield because a) we couldn't figure out how to legally try them (military vs civic) because they did not fit under the definition of POW in the Geneva convention and b) because they would almost certainly rejoin the enemy ranks if released, and c) their own countries wouldn't take them. also, and this is no minor point, Camp X-Ray wasn't even a vague thought when we were asking for ObL and AQ to be turned over to us. Neither you, nor anyone else, has any idea what would have happened had they been turned over en masse to the American military, but I suspect that they would have been held and tried at the Hague, if not in NYC.</blockquote>


What the camp was setup to do and what they actually did there are 2 different things. There is also the issue of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition_by_the_United_States">Torture by proxy</a>



I can only guess what they would have done to him if he had been caught but given the US handling of terrorists since 911 it is most likely he would have been tortured before being put on trial for the public
 
I'm still waiting for the anti-war people to tell me what do we do to protect ourselves.



You know, I understand not agreeing with why we went to Iraq and why we are still in Afghanistan but I don't get how you think that we don't need to actively protect ourselves from terrorism. I get the whole "Save our soldiers lives and they are dying needlessly" but what's after that?



Let France take care of it? Let Russia handle it? If you don't think a military presence is going to help, then wouldn't you think that zero presence would be worse? How much intelligence would we lose by withdrawing our assets? Even Obama knows that what we want idealistically is impossible.



You guys keep talking about how we should pull our troops... but no one is saying what do we do after that? How do we make sure 9/11 doesn't happen again? Or do we do it bltserv-style and just wait for it to happen and then send the nukes... which would probably end up in a World War III and more lives would be lost in 1 year than the last 8. No insults, no calls for medication... just straight answers.
 
I got my eye on you boys. I don't want to read "he started it". Everybody is responsible for their own person.



<img src="http://www.marcscottonline.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/wooden-heart-spoon1-300x300.jpg" alt="" />

<em>It may leave a mark, but at least you'll know I still love you.</em>?
 
[quote author="SoCal78" date=1255587055]I got my eye on you boys. I don't want to read "he started it". Everybody is responsible for their own person.



<img src="http://www.marcscottonline.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/wooden-heart-spoon1-300x300.jpg" alt="" />

<em>It may leave a mark, but at least you'll know I still love you.</em>?</blockquote>


My mom hit me with a wooden spoon once... <strong>once</strong>.
 
[quote author="Nude" date=1255588825][quote author="SoCal78" date=1255587055]I got my eye on you boys. I don't want to read "he started it". Everybody is responsible for their own person.



<img src="http://www.marcscottonline.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/wooden-heart-spoon1-300x300.jpg" alt="" />

<em>It may leave a mark, but at least you'll know I still love you.</em>?</blockquote>


My mom hit me with a wooden spoon once... <strong>once</strong>.</blockquote>


She probably got maimed, obliterated or killed after that ... :P
 
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