Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
- Thread starter woodburyowner
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Well technically due to deregulation neither SCE nor PG&E own much generation anymore. They purchase it all from energy companies that bought their plants and the intertie link power grids.
Those critcal intertie paths are why PG&E shutting stuff down for winds or Bonneville protecting Salmon on the Columbia can mean rolling blackouts for Orange County.
Of course...but you are also pumping energy into it via the panel during the day time so it somewhat replenishes. If there is a power outage, you would minimize your electrical use to basically the fridge.
the financial benefit of batteries revolves around load shifting, or taking electricity produced at a lower value and selling/using it at a higher value. with sce's highest value tou periods in the new tariffs being later in the day (4-9pm), batteries make a lot of sense because solar generation typically diminishes after 4-5pm. sce tou rates after 4-5pm are $0.30/kWh+ while rates before 4-5pm are 1/2 or 1/3 of that cost. so in this case, generate cheaper power with solar that charges the battery during the day, then use that power and discharge the battery later on when rates are higher and solar is no longer generating.
We are talking about two different things...emergency backup and costs. Neither one is the sole factor for getting a powerwall, but they are both incentives.
As for emergency backup, it is good in case the grid goes down in case of an emergency or SCE decides to turn off its grid because of fire danger.
As for costs...it depends on how much you use and how much you can generate. If you are like zubs and have enough roof space to power 3 homes, a powerwall is probably not for you. But if you are like me, where the generation is not that much more than usage...it is good to have some backup so that you can have excess energy when you needed it the most.
The two "best" batteries that are out there are LG and Tesla. Tesla is cheaper if you go through Tesla but more expensive if you go with a 3rd party. LG is pretty much the same across the board. Tesla is like 13 KwH while LG is like 9+...so you need 3 LG batteries = 2 Powerwalls. Thus, it is generally cheaper to go with Powerwall vs LG.
But it really depends on how much storage you want/need.
Wife would never go for it. Our panels will be away from the street and in our backyard roof so not really visible. If we started loading panels on our street side roofs, wife would not be happy.
problem here is sce does not allow you to participate as nem customer if your system is sized larger than your total annual kwh consumption. even if you're sized at 100%, you're still only generating at $0.23/kWh during summer weekdays (when most people are not home) and consuming (with very little/no production) at $0.42/kWh when you're home so you end up net negative.
I think SCE might have relaxed the oversize rule a bit. Last few installers that gave me quotes mentioned that SCE doesn't care unless you are grossly oversizing your system.
It is also something that may put SCE out of business. It would be curious to see if SCE can go from an energy provider to simply a middle man in transferring energy from one place to another.
??? >
nosuchreality
Well-known member
zubs said:
Well technically due to deregulation neither SCE nor PG&E own much generation anymore. They purchase it all from energy companies that bought their plants and the intertie link power grids.
Those critcal intertie paths are why PG&E shutting stuff down for winds or Bonneville protecting Salmon on the Columbia can mean rolling blackouts for Orange County.
zubs
Well-known member
nosuchreality
Well-known member
and further in.zubs said:
same source said:
Having a powerwall would be like having a 150 gallon rain cistern to supply water to your house, and paying over $1000 for it. It'll do in a pinch, but only just. It's roughly $500 per kw-h of storage capacity. For short term power outages I'll just live with the inconvenience. For long term outages (i.e., natural disasters), I'm better off with my portable generators.
Irvinecommuter
New member
daedalus said:
Of course...but you are also pumping energy into it via the panel during the day time so it somewhat replenishes. If there is a power outage, you would minimize your electrical use to basically the fridge.
I get that it replenishes. But so what? What's the real benefit that's worth paying the $6500 or whatever it costs, assuming you're still on the grid? My home probably goes through a half dozen power outages a year, and nearly all are while I'm at work. My food hasn't gone bad during any power outage in the past 20 years that I can recall. Or maybe I don't understand how SCE treats its solar customers. Absent a powerwall, doesn't SCE become the de facto powerwall? If you consume 400kwh in a month, and you generate 400kwh in that same month during daylight hours, what's your expected out of pocket cost, and how much would a powerwall save you each month from that cost?
daedalus said:
the financial benefit of batteries revolves around load shifting, or taking electricity produced at a lower value and selling/using it at a higher value. with sce's highest value tou periods in the new tariffs being later in the day (4-9pm), batteries make a lot of sense because solar generation typically diminishes after 4-5pm. sce tou rates after 4-5pm are $0.30/kWh+ while rates before 4-5pm are 1/2 or 1/3 of that cost. so in this case, generate cheaper power with solar that charges the battery during the day, then use that power and discharge the battery later on when rates are higher and solar is no longer generating.
zubs
Well-known member
Instead of a battery, you should just add more panels to over-make electricity. Here is the TOU edison rates:
From 4-9pm, electricity production goes way down, so the battery will benefit you by selling it's stored electricity in those hours. However, just increasing panels should have a similar effect. Even though I'm only selling at 0.23 during prime solar generation hours, I'm making a lot more power to sell.
Adding more solar panels is cheaper than adding a $6,500 battery.
From 4-9pm, electricity production goes way down, so the battery will benefit you by selling it's stored electricity in those hours. However, just increasing panels should have a similar effect. Even though I'm only selling at 0.23 during prime solar generation hours, I'm making a lot more power to sell.
Adding more solar panels is cheaper than adding a $6,500 battery.
Irvinecommuter
New member
daedalus said:
We are talking about two different things...emergency backup and costs. Neither one is the sole factor for getting a powerwall, but they are both incentives.
As for emergency backup, it is good in case the grid goes down in case of an emergency or SCE decides to turn off its grid because of fire danger.
As for costs...it depends on how much you use and how much you can generate. If you are like zubs and have enough roof space to power 3 homes, a powerwall is probably not for you. But if you are like me, where the generation is not that much more than usage...it is good to have some backup so that you can have excess energy when you needed it the most.
Irvinecommuter
New member
eyephone said:
The two "best" batteries that are out there are LG and Tesla. Tesla is cheaper if you go through Tesla but more expensive if you go with a 3rd party. LG is pretty much the same across the board. Tesla is like 13 KwH while LG is like 9+...so you need 3 LG batteries = 2 Powerwalls. Thus, it is generally cheaper to go with Powerwall vs LG.
But it really depends on how much storage you want/need.
zubs
Well-known member
The solar companies can actually cover your entire roof in solar. The problem is some panels will not be as effective facing North and East. They'll still produce electricity, but at a reduced rate. This is where the microinverter is needed instead of the string inverter as the microinverter takes each panel and adds to the whole, while the string inverter (central) sets your whole array to the lowest panel output.
Irvinecommuter
New member
zubs said:
Wife would never go for it. Our panels will be away from the street and in our backyard roof so not really visible. If we started loading panels on our street side roofs, wife would not be happy.
zubs said:Instead of a battery, you should just add more panels to over-make electricity. Here is the TOU edison rates:
From 4-9pm, electricity production goes way down, so the battery will benefit you by selling it's stored electricity in those hours. However, just increasing panels should have a similar effect. Even though I'm only selling at 0.23 during prime solar generation hours, I'm making a lot more power to sell.
Adding more solar panels is cheaper than adding a $6,500 battery.
problem here is sce does not allow you to participate as nem customer if your system is sized larger than your total annual kwh consumption. even if you're sized at 100%, you're still only generating at $0.23/kWh during summer weekdays (when most people are not home) and consuming (with very little/no production) at $0.42/kWh when you're home so you end up net negative.
woodburyowner
Well-known member
Kings said:
I think SCE might have relaxed the oversize rule a bit. Last few installers that gave me quotes mentioned that SCE doesn't care unless you are grossly oversizing your system.
zubs
Well-known member
SCE is a company looking out for itself. Solar electricity production is a public good that benefits the community. SCE will do what's good for themselves before they will do whats good for the community, so I strongly disagree with SCE limiting home owners from putting 100 solar panels on their own roof.
Irvinecommuter
New member
zubs said:
It is also something that may put SCE out of business. It would be curious to see if SCE can go from an energy provider to simply a middle man in transferring energy from one place to another.