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Hehe... you guys are so literal.



You guys are above average... and maybe scientists.



I know what science is... but is it too difficult for you guys to see that an "average person" views science with the same mindset as religion.



When "Joe Average" turns on a light, does he need to understand that V=iR? No. That's the details I'm talking about. Does everyone who drives a car know exactly how a combustion engine works?



They just have "faith" that it works as they have been told it works. How many people here when they first learned to drive were given lessons on velocity, mass, force and acceleration?



I really do need my Internet Happy Box.



EDIT: Speling erors.
 
Without starting another thread call IHB Systematic Theology, which would be immensely boring; well unless you love philosophical and logical debates; which, by the way apologists almost never win anyone to Christ; simply by presenting and debating the atheists to death! I can safely say that most of come to Christ not because of head knowledge, but of the irresistible grace and love that we come to experience from a personal relationship with our savior.



This is not to say that we don?t ask tough logical, rational and scientific questions. Thankfully for us, a lot of Christian theologians, scientists, philosophers, ethicists, biologists, historians and physicists have gone before us for hundreds of years, asked and answered some of these vary questions. They can all be google these names & questions up and read; a few sites I like are, CRI ? the creation research institute, R.C. Sproul?s Ligonier Ministries, Frank Pastore, Greg Laure, (my professor) JP Morlan, C.S. Lewis and yes, Focus on the Family?s Truth Project?



Now if that is not enough reading, I would next suggest: Karl Barth, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Martin Luther and good old John Calvin.



Granted, some answers are great; such as: IHO?s ethics (Truth) having an ultimate foundational bases on the existence of God; or subjective truth based on ones personal convections. And, some answers like, why did dinosaurs have meat-eating teeth, are, um, less satisfying. The point is that, there is enough overwhelming evidence, that if Christianity were to be on trial a jury would be able to prove the existence of God than not (A Case For Christ).
 
RC, I'll add to your list if I may: Check out books by Hal Lindsey (such as Late Great Planet Earth) , Jack Van Impe (The Mark of The Beast and Revelation Revealed), and astrophysicist Hugh Ross (The Fingerprint of God.)
 
If God is tangible then faith ceased to exist. I admire people like you who has a tremendous amount of faith in your belief. Don't be discouraged by people like me who will try to find a thousand different ways to comprehend it. The fact and the matter is no one has successfully prove or disprove God's existance. The same also reflects on the 3CWG debate.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1250924256]The fact and the matter is no one has successfully prove or disprove God's existance. The same also reflects on the 3CWG debate.</blockquote>
See... BK knows what I was getting at... all sides have their own views... perception trumps facts, science, faith and religion. Whether that's right or wrong... is subjective.



(BTW: I have empirical evidence that a 3-car garage is superior to a 2-car garage)
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1250924256]If God is tangible then faith ceased to exist. I admire people like you who has a tremendous amount of faith in your belief. Don't be discouraged by people like me who will try to find a thousand different ways to comprehend it. The fact and the matter is no one has successfully prove or disprove God's existance. The same also reflects on the 3CWG debate.</blockquote>


Thanks, Bk. I started out with no faith at all. If you like to find a thousand different answers - please find me this one: Jesus was one of the most important men in history. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nhOhCTIul4">Where </a>is his body?
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1250924256]If God is tangible then faith ceased to exist. I admire people like you who has a tremendous amount of faith in your belief. Don't be discouraged by people like me who will try to find a thousand different ways to comprehend it. The fact and the matter is no one has successfully prove or disprove God's existance. The same also reflects on the 3CWG debate.</blockquote>


If my IHB mental file serves me right, I could have sworn you said you attended an Evangelical church in one of your posts. Are you religious without faith?
 
[quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1250924680][quote author="bkshopr" date=1250924256]The fact and the matter is no one has successfully prove or disprove God's existance. The same also reflects on the 3CWG debate.</blockquote>
See... BK knows what I was getting at... all sides have their own views... perception trumps facts, science, faith and religion. Whether that's right or wrong... is subjective.



(BTW: I have empirical evidence that a 3-car garage is superior to a 2-car garage)</blockquote>


You and I both agree on a 3 car garage is better than a 2 car garage.



You and I also agree on a 3 car garage is better for the aesthetic if it is located away from the front of the house.



You and I disagree on when land is limited you pick the 3 car garage at the front with minimal exposed architecture. You choose function over form while I choose form over function for having a nicer looking house and live with a compromised garage.



There is no right answer and we both have faith in our garage preference.



Religion is the same and will take a tremendous amount of faith. It is a lot easier to just go pick walnuts with NoVas where I can count, see, feel and pick the crops.



I certainly appreciate the sharing of religion here in fostering a community. Sure we are here to learn about housing but I can be opened to others posts about building personal character.



Both RC, Socal and even Panda demonstrated their genuine care for others. Their good testimony and persona is a good influence by their religion. They are caring people when others are walking out they walk in regardless of difficulties.



I may be full of knowledge about a lot of worldly things but when it comes to faith I admit I am the shallowest of all.



Not all people attend church are religious and faithful followers. I am one of such at the bottom hoping to grasp the fundamental.



I am a bad example and disgrace all the followers around me. I am facinated by people who give to benefit the lives of others.
 
[quote author="Mcdonna1980" date=1250926591][quote author="bkshopr" date=1250924256]If God is tangible then faith ceased to exist. I admire people like you who has a tremendous amount of faith in your belief. Don't be discouraged by people like me who will try to find a thousand different ways to comprehend it. The fact and the matter is no one has successfully prove or disprove God's existance. The same also reflects on the 3CWG debate.</blockquote>


If my IHB mental file serves me right, I could have sworn you said you attended an Evangelical church in one of your posts. Are you religious without faith?</blockquote>




BK and I have attended an evangelical church in fullerton, however we have not joined it and havent gone much recently and by recently I mean since last May. Just because we both struggle with faith doesnt mean we stop trying to learn or whatever. I dont really consider either of us very "religious" but we do try to be good people and respectful of others beliefs.



Im going to quote something the pastor said last Christmas. He was talking about how tough these times are and how important it is to just listen to people. He said "I know its tough not to talk, myself I am a talker.. but Im going to ask you now, to just shutup for Jesus" at the time it was so unexpected I burst out laughing much to BKs embarrassment...



But now its also how I am starting to feel about this thread :-P hmmmm.. maybe I will have that printed on our christmas cards this year..
 
Now it is such a bizarrely impossible coincidence that anything so mind-bogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as a final and clinching proof of the nonexistence of God. The argument goes something like this:



"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."

"But," say Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED."

"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't though of that" and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1250927629]

You and I both agree on a 3 car garage is better than a 2 car garage.



You and I also agree on a 3 car garage is better for the aesthetic if it is located away from the front of the house.



... Not all people attend church are religious and faithful followers. I am one of such at the bottom hoping to grasp the fundamental.



I am a bad example and disgrace all the followers around me....</blockquote>


Bk is very smart. To put it in his or IHO's terms... sitting in church doesn't make you a Christian any more than sitting in a 3CWG makes you a car. :lol:
 
[quote author="SoCal78" date=1250930386][quote author="bkshopr" date=1250927629]

You and I both agree on a 3 car garage is better than a 2 car garage.



You and I also agree on a 3 car garage is better for the aesthetic if it is located away from the front of the house.



... Not all people attend church are religious and faithful followers. I am one of such at the bottom hoping to grasp the fundamental.



I am a bad example and disgrace all the followers around me....</blockquote>


Bk is very smart. To put it in his or IHO's terms... sitting in church doesn't make you a Christian any more than sitting in a 3CWG makes you a car. :lol:</blockquote>


This is the post of the week.
 
[quote author="SoCal78" date=1250924970][quote author="bkshopr" date=1250924256]If God is tangible then faith ceased to exist. I admire people like you who has a tremendous amount of faith in your belief. Don't be discouraged by people like me who will try to find a thousand different ways to comprehend it. The fact and the matter is no one has successfully prove or disprove God's existance. The same also reflects on the 3CWG debate.</blockquote>


Thanks, Bk. I started out with no faith at all. If you like to find a thousand different answers - please find me this one: Jesus was one of the most important men in history. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nhOhCTIul4">Where </a>is his body?</blockquote>


Uh.... if his body was still on earth he wouldn't need to RETURN.
 
[quote author="Look4house" date=1250858723]RC,



It seems like a script for a TV drama. That's a lot of negativity surrounding you, your friends and love ones. Like many have said, these challenges in life will most likely make you stronger in the end. You need to pick up the strength to fight through the trials and I know you are and know where to find your support.



I am not really trying to get into the topic of religion and I respect those that don't believe in God or religion. I just hope the atheists would respect those that do believe in God and the freedom of speech. If you are curious why people would believe in something that they cannot feel or touch and let that belief guide your life, I think you heard of a book call BIBLE. It has the answers you are looking for. If you want to live your life by your own standard, free will, I just hope everyone is intelligent enough not to follow the footsteps of Michael Jackson. Peace.</blockquote>


I definitely respect those who do believe in God and I definitely believe in freedom of speech, however I just cannot participate in this thread and I really don't understand what it has to do with the title. For some reason, I felt compelled to say that, even though I am really saying nothing..........HMMM.
 
I just wanted to thank you guys, my husband and I have gotten a lot of entertainment from this thread. I don't think there is a simple answer, and everyone has their own beliefs, and as my husband pointed out a few minutes ago, "Scientists are the priests of modern society." He has some entertaining comparisons for doctors and religion.



The Voltaire quote is dead on, but I offer up a line from Robert Frost's A Considerable Speck:



<em>I have a mind myself and recognize

Mind when I meet with it in any guise

No one can know how glad I am to find

On any sheet the least display of mind. </em>
 
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