Straw poll on gay marriage

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I'm waiting for my 3000 th post to share a very personal story about my life as a gay woman. I hope to help people understand how important marriage is to all of "us" as well as you.
 
Hey, there, Trooper. I sure am late to the party and don't read this section of the board much... I hope it's okay if I ask a question regarding this topic?



I am not inferring I feel one way or the other... just simply asking out of pure curiosity and no implied agenda, k?



I just wonder why do gays feel so strongly about wanting to be called "married"? Just from what I've read here, it would seem as though they do not value the faiths or religiosity and the opinions of others (conservatives) in our country don't seem to carry much weight with them... so why then it is so important to them to be "married" when it's typically a union made (by the religious faithful) before God. It's sort of like if I were Christian in a Hindu country... and I wasn't allowed to be "married" according to their Hindu standards... I wouldn't really care because I'm not Hindu. That, and I wouldn't want to impose myself on others. Kwim?? I think if I was gay I would be really ok with having a civil union... actually I'd probably be just fine with having no official label and just a private commitment ceremony or something even if it's unofficial. I am just trying to put myself in someone else's shoes and see how it would feel. I think it's sort of funny how you sometimes see (straight) couples who are against marriage and say, "I don't need that 'piece of paper' to prove our love for each other" and then you have gays who really want it. That just baffles me. Thank you for reading. You seem really nice and helpful to answering some of the questions on this thread.
 
[quote author="SoCal78" date=1222846452]Hey, there, Trooper. I sure am late to the party and don't read this section of the board much... I hope it's okay if I ask a question regarding this topic?



I am not inferring I feel one way or the other... just simply asking out of pure curiosity and no implied agenda, k?



I just wonder why do gays feel so strongly about wanting to be called "married"? Just from what I've read here, it would seem as though they do not value the faiths or religiosity and the opinions of others (conservatives) in our country don't seem to carry much weight with them... so why then it is so important to them to be "married" when it's typically a union made (by the religious faithful) before God. It's sort of like if I were Christian in a Hindu country... and I wasn't allowed to be "married" according to their Hindu standards... I wouldn't really care because I'm not Hindu. That, and I wouldn't want to impose myself on others. Kwim?? I think if I was gay I would be really ok with having a civil union... actually I'd probably be just fine with having no official label and just a private commitment ceremony or something even if it's unofficial. I am just trying to put myself in someone else's shoes and see how it would feel. I think it's sort of funny how you sometimes see (straight) couples who are against marriage and say, "I don't need that 'piece of paper' to prove our love for each other" and then you have gays who really want it. That just baffles me. Thank you for reading. You seem really nice and helpful to answering some of the questions on this thread.</blockquote>


Well put you bring up an interesting point imposing upon others. This and below are some of the things that the YES on Prop 8 crowd are concerned about:

1. Separation of church and state -- The state starts telling Church's who must be married, what couples children are to be adopted into, etc.

2. Teachings in School -- Children are taught about families and sex ed in school. So children are now taught that families are Mom and Mom, Dad and Dad, etc. Sex ed ?? Are we really going here?



A separate but similar issue is as I understand 61.4% of the state voted on PROP 22 and now 4 CA state supreme court judges overruled the will of the California people. Reminds me of Prop 187 which was overturned by the CA State supreme court even with a majority voting YES on it. This isn't right.



<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prop_8">Prop 8 Link</a>

<a href="http://www.protectmarriage.com/">Protect Marriage</a>
 
Hi SoCal78,



I'll do my best to explain. I was raised to believe that the ultimate step you take in life, is marriage. Just because I'm gay, doesn't mean I don't want that. I do...with passion. Now if I can just find someone that will marry me ! ;)



I'm not religious, so I cannot comment about that. However, I also don't believe marriage has anything to do with g-d. I believe it's a legal contract that implies rights and responsibilities on two people. And regardless of religion...it's really got to do with being Human....not Hindu, or Catholic, etc.



If straights don't want to marry b/c they feel it's a piece of paper, then fine...but give me the right and let ME decide what's best for me and my partner.



I'll give you something quick to think about. An acquaintance of mine is a Sgt. with Phoenix P.D. She is two weeks away from retirement and just signed her separation papers today. She finally realized, that if she dies, her partner of TWELVE years will not benefit from her pension. AZ law states, "Only spouses" can benefit.



So do you see what I'm talking about ? We have to legally protect our partners so as to benefit from all that "you" do. Pension, hospital visits, inheritence, health benefits...... stop me when you understand.



Thanks for the question, hope my answer helped.



You are all welcome to PM me if you don't want to comment publicly on the blog.
 
What are you afraid of MediaBoyz ?



Do you seriously think my future marriage will harm yours?



and BTW, the new law regarding gay marriage does not require any church to participate if they don't want to.
 
Hey Trooper, I have a question for you. Are you gay by choice or are you just gay? I ask because in the latest Palin/Couric interview, the failure mentions that one of her best friends is gay and doesn't judge her for the choice she made. Palin also goes on to say that it's not a choice that she personally would have chosen.



My pov, I don't think gays have a choice in their preference for a mate. You go with what feels right.



<a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4490713n">About 9:10 into the clip.</a>
 
Hi Gotti,



No, I believe it's a matter of genetics. I believe I was born gay.



I can trace my "tendencies" back to 3rd grade. I never had any bad experiences with men, and my parents are still happily married.



There are four of us cousins on my Dad's side, 2 out of 4 of us are gay. That's 50%.... I think that says something.



Thanks for the question.....but might I add, who the eff would "choose" this life ? Seriously, someone would have to be a glutton for punishment.
 
[quote author="Trooper" date=1222851042]



I believe I was born gay.



</blockquote>
THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING! It's so sad to know that a phrase like,"Praying the gay away" exists.
 
Mediaboyz,



Why such a sharp bite? I did not come here to harm anyone. Only to get feedback from Troop. I'm sorry you feel I am imposing here. I politely asked if I could join. I did not ask anything of you.
 
[quote author="GOTTI" date=1222851392][quote author="Trooper" date=1222851042]



I believe I was born gay.



</blockquote>
THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING! It's so sad to know that a phrase like,"Praying the gay away" exists.</blockquote>


I think you are confusing the choice to have those feelings versus the choice to act on them.
 
[quote author="mediaboyz" date=1222849370][quote author="SoCal78" date=1222846452]Hey, there, Trooper. I sure am late to the party and don't read this section of the board much... I hope it's okay if I ask a question regarding this topic?



I am not inferring I feel one way or the other... just simply asking out of pure curiosity and no implied agenda, k?



I just wonder why do gays feel so strongly about wanting to be called "married"? Just from what I've read here, it would seem as though they do not value the faiths or religiosity and the opinions of others (conservatives) in our country don't seem to carry much weight with them... so why then it is so important to them to be "married" when it's typically a union made (by the religious faithful) before God. It's sort of like if I were Christian in a Hindu country... and I wasn't allowed to be "married" according to their Hindu standards... I wouldn't really care because I'm not Hindu. That, and I wouldn't want to impose myself on others. Kwim?? I think if I was gay I would be really ok with having a civil union... actually I'd probably be just fine with having no official label and just a private commitment ceremony or something even if it's unofficial. I am just trying to put myself in someone else's shoes and see how it would feel. I think it's sort of funny how you sometimes see (straight) couples who are against marriage and say, "I don't need that 'piece of paper' to prove our love for each other" and then you have gays who really want it. That just baffles me. Thank you for reading. You seem really nice and helpful to answering some of the questions on this thread.</blockquote>


Well put you being up an interesting point imposing upon others. This and below are some of the things that the YES on Prop 8 crowd are concerned about:

1. Separation of church and state -- The state starts telling Church's who must be married, what couples children are to be adopted into, etc.

2. Teachings in School -- Children are taught about families and sex ed in school. So children are now taught that families are Mom and Mom, Dad and Dad, etc. Sex ed ?? Are we really going here?



A separate but similar issue is as I understand 61.4% of the state voted on PROP 22 and now 4 CA state supreme court judges overruled the will of the California people. Reminds me of Prop 187 which was overturned by the CA State supreme court even with a majority voting YES on it. This isn't right.



<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prop_8">Prop 8 Link</a>

<a href="http://www.protectmarriage.com/">Protect Marriage</a></blockquote>


Haha... And these are the people who think dinosaurs are Jesus ponies. #1 is a just stupid, most of the gay wedding's I've seen or heard about have taken place at the courthouse. Another fact is that if a clerk wasn't comfortable of doing the ceremony, they could find someone else who's a bit more open minded.

#2 is just lazy parenting. How long do you think you can shelter a child from the facts of life? Different strokes for different folks. I know that my kids will learn that people are wired differently. It's not fair to deny anyone the pursuit of happiness.

21st century folks, pay attention or you're gonna miss it.
 
[quote author="SoCal78" date=1222851590][quote author="GOTTI" date=1222851392][quote author="Trooper" date=1222851042]



I believe I was born gay.



</blockquote>
THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING! It's so sad to know that a phrase like,"Praying the gay away" exists.</blockquote>


I think you are confusing the choice to have those feelings versus the choice to act on them.</blockquote>
Same difference. If something just "Feels right", wouldn't you act upon it?
 
[quote author="Trooper" date=1222849531]Hi SoCal78,



I'll do my best to explain. I was raised to believe that the ultimate step you take in life, is marriage. Just because I'm gay, doesn't mean I don't want that. I do...with passion. Now if I can just find someone that will marry me ! ;)



I'm not religious, so I cannot comment about that. However, I also don't believe marriage has anything to do with g-d. I believe it's a legal contract that implies rights and responsibilities on two people. And regardless of religion...it's really got to do with being Human....not Hindu, or Catholic, etc.



If straights don't want to marry b/c they feel it's a piece of paper, then fine...but give me the right and let ME decide what's best for me and my partner.



I'll give you something quick to think about. An acquaintance of mine is a Sgt. with Phoenix P.D. She is two weeks away from retirement and just signed her separation papers today. She finally realized, that if she dies, her partner of TWELVE years will not benefit from her pension. AZ law states, "Only spouses" can benefit.



So do you see what I'm talking about ? We have to legally protect our partners so as to benefit from all that "you" do. Pension, hospital visits, inheritence, health benefits...... stop me when you understand.



Thanks for the question, hope my answer helped.



You are all welcome to PM me if you don't want to comment publicly on the blog.</blockquote>


Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Troop. You are easy to talk to and I like that. I thought you could leave your inheritance to anyone you want?? Every now and then you'll even hear of someone leaving their estate to their pet (like Leona Helmsley) so I would certainly think you could choose any person you want to inherit? If (and maybe it's a big "if")... but if a domestic partnership or civil union gave you those things i.e. pension, etc (without calling it "married") then would you consider it a sufficient version of marriage for you? On the topic of healthcare - I don't know about you guys but I don't think an employer "owes it" it to anyone to pay for anyone besides the employee if it's offered (meaning the straight spouse, gay lover, children, whatever.) I think anything above and beyond the employee is generous. Some of the wealthiest couples I know are homosexuals where they are both working and raking in the money so is the partner getting benefits through their S.O.'s employer that much of a concern for them? Again, this is just for the sake of conversation. Thanks for talking with me, Troop.
 
You know, it's funny. MediaBoyz and I had a good conversation going years ago on the blog. Back then he knew I was a police officer, and he knew a lot of officers too. We had a nice connection I thought.



Seems everything changed when I came out on the blog as a lesbian.



I've been dealing with this sort of reaction all my life, so it's nothing that shocks me. Just sad to see people think differently of me only when they learn of my sexual orientation.
 
[quote author="GOTTI" date=1222852148][quote author="SoCal78" date=1222851590][quote author="GOTTI" date=1222851392][quote author="Trooper" date=1222851042]



I believe I was born gay.



</blockquote>
THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING! It's so sad to know that a phrase like,"Praying the gay away" exists.</blockquote>


I think you are confusing the choice to have those feelings versus the choice to act on them.</blockquote>
Same difference. If something just "Feels right", wouldn't you act upon it?</blockquote>


Why don't you ask someone from the '60's with a "If it feels good, do it" mentality. Again, no offense to Troop as I'm not equating our conversation to mine and yours. You are on a different wavelength.
 
[quote author="Trooper" date=1222852979]The vid wouldn't play for me Gotti. I got the commercial though !</blockquote>


Bummer. www.cbsnews.com, they have the entire interview. As I mentioned before, 9:10 in. Zeitgeist time.
 
[quote author="Trooper" date=1222853214]You know, it's funny. MediaBoyz and I had a good conversation going years ago on the blog. Back then he knew I was a police officer, and he knew a lot of officers too. We had a nice connection I thought.



Seems everything changed when I came out on the blog as a lesbian.



I've been dealing with this sort of reaction all my life, so it's nothing that shocks me. Just sad to see people think differently of me only when they learn of my sexual orientation.</blockquote>


Ok well now you've got me really baffled by MediaBoys. Maybe I completely misread him. I thought he was shanking me for daring to ask questions about the gay P.O.V. Media - I went to look up some of your other posts and they kind of threw me for a loop. Some make it sound like you are a conservative. Others make it sound like you are the complete opposite. Which is it???
 
<em>but if a domestic partnership or civil union gave you those things i.e. pension, etc (without calling it ?married") then would you consider it a sufficient version of marriage for you?</em>



No, SoCal, I don't consider myself any different than you. I want to be married, in every sense of the word...just like I was raised to believe. I yearn for that ultimate relationship.



And I may have mis-spoke when I talk about inheritance. You are correct that anyone can leave their inheritance to whom they chose....but stand by if you are gay. The "blood family" will almost always jump in and contest the will. Even if they haven't spoken in many years..... I know this because it has happened to people I know. PM me for details if you wish.



It's the pension thing that's the hang up. If your are not a "spouse", almost all pension plans preclude your partner from benefitting.



The Federal Gov't also doesn't recognize gay benefits. More on my 3000th post. (Hint: I did ask someone to marry me, but was unable to b/c America doesn't recognize gay marriage.)



Now, if that isn't a teaser....I don't know what is.



Honestly people, what's the big whoop if I want to get married ? It won't hurt yours, and it will be a positive force for people to stay together. Isn't that what it's all about ?
 
Troop,



I have been pretty right on regarding ethnicity and gender profiling. A year and a half ago I thought you were a man because everything you have posted lead me to the conclusion. When you corrected me on that I knew already then about you. Gays have exquisite taste for art and architecture like Schulman's Modernism to Chapin's cottages. Thank you for sharing your life with us. Regardless of your lifestyle I have great respect for you. Looking forward to your 3k post.
 
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