Snowflakes

[fortune11]

i dont blame these guys . it is just the way history is taught and how our popular media has traditionally given a free pass to all europeans military powers before ww 2 . 

interesting if you look up the origins of the english word "loot"  it is actually from India -- they plundered India and then china so much during the mid 18th to early 19th century that it literally financed the industrial revolution (free or even negative cost of capital). 

china + india accounted for 50% of the global gdp (according to western scholars) before the engligh converted from a trading partner to conquerors in the 18th century

and as you pointed out , the slave trade is a whole another dimension of cruelty -- from which the buckingham palace personally benefited as well.

I mean genocide, drug dealing, slavery, exploitation of entire cultures/countries, stealing of resources, and biological warfare are all okay as long as white people did it...it's the "right way".

hmmm sounds a lot like china of today

either you mean this in jest (I hope) or you really have no historical context 

 

[Happiness]

The Liberal Paradox:

If all cultures are equally good, then why is European culture bad?

 

[Irvinecommuter]

The Liberal Paradox:

If all cultures are equally good, then why is European culture bad?

Wow...way not to study history or have an understanding of basically anything historical.

But hey...if your takeaway from British colonial days is that it was essentially a "We are the World" moment...the Black Plague was something that helped improve health care!

 

[fortune11]

The Liberal Paradox:

If all cultures are equally good, then why is European culture bad?

You were the one touting superiority of the British imperial tradition

Like many of the other conservatives on this forum with their grandiose statements (on culture / finance etc) , this too , yes , blew up spectacularly in your face when presented with facts

So now do what you do ? claim suddenly it is about a different topic altogether

Don?t worry we we all understand. Better luck next time ; )

 

[Kings]

i dont blame these guys . it is just the way history is taught and how our popular media has traditionally given a free pass to all europeans military powers before ww 2 . 

interesting if you look up the origins of the english word "loot"  it is actually from India -- they plundered India and then china so much during the mid 18th to early 19th century that it literally financed the industrial revolution (free or even negative cost of capital). 

china + india accounted for 50% of the global gdp (according to western scholars) before the engligh converted from a trading partner to conquerors in the 18th century

and as you pointed out , the slave trade is a whole another dimension of cruelty -- from which the buckingham palace personally benefited as well.

I mean genocide, drug dealing, slavery, exploitation of entire cultures/countries, stealing of resources, and biological warfare are all okay as long as white people did it...it's the "right way".

hmmm sounds a lot like china of today

either you mean this in jest (I hope) or you really have no historical context

is anything i say not in jest?  (take a second for that one)

ps. the best jokes have some semblance of truth to them 

 

[Liar Loan]

My first thought after reading this was I hope Perspective is ok.  Has anybody seen him lately?

A Florida woman stabbed herself repeatedly because she?s ?tired of living in Trump?s country?

A woman in Palmetto, Fla., told police she stabbed herself in the stomach because she doesn?t want to live in Donald Trump?s America.

The distraught woman, whose name is redacted from a police report posted on the Smoking Gun, was covered in blood when cops arrived to her home.

?I observed blood all over (her) legs, hands and face,? responding officer wrote.

When police asked the victim what happened, she lifted her shirt and showed them three self-inflicted stab wounds on her stomach.

?I?m tired of living in Trump?s country. I?m tired of Trump being president,? she reportedly told police. The report said the wounded woman admitted to stabbing herself for those reasons.

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/na...0190605-cjxvemgp6nhdlhpqoo4s2u56qi-story.html

 

[morekaos]

How do you know Perspective was a man, or for that matter any of the 56 other gender identities they could have been...today or yesterday?  So misogynistic and unwoke of you.

 

[nosuchreality]

I'd say pre-WWII, or really pre-Today, but those are all really misspeaks as today really is the same as yesterday despite all the posturing and what British empire did from 1500- 1950 is basically same as what every other power through history has done.

Whether Mongolia, China Aztecs, Eygptians, Persia or any other one and today, the same reindeer games go on and the exploitation and domination is more subtle and 'civilized' through debt, binding contracts and financial aid.

Anybody posturing for high ground is delusional.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

So Alaskans and Hawaiians are oppressed people?

Let's annex Canada... and Mexico (won't need to build that wall).

 

[Happiness]

I'd say pre-WWII, or really pre-Today, but those are all really misspeaks as today really is the same as yesterday despite all the posturing and what British empire did from 1500- 1950 is basically same as what every other power through history has done.

Whether Mongolia, China Aztecs, Eygptians, Persia or any other one and today, the same reindeer games go on and the exploitation and domination is more subtle and 'civilized' through debt, binding contracts and financial aid.

Anybody posturing for high ground is delusional.

The UK was different than the other colonial powers (Spain, Portugal, France, Belgium, Germany, and Japan). The other colonial powers just took, the UK took but also introduced freedom of the press, freedom of speech, rule of law, free markets, property rights, due process, individual rights, women's rights, and liberal democracy. The most advanced and prosperous countries in America, Asia, and Africa were all former UK colonies. No other colonial power has that record.

 

[fortune11]

I'd say pre-WWII, or really pre-Today, but those are all really misspeaks as today really is the same as yesterday despite all the posturing and what British empire did from 1500- 1950 is basically same as what every other power through history has done.

Whether Mongolia, China Aztecs, Eygptians, Persia or any other one and today, the same reindeer games go on and the exploitation and domination is more subtle and 'civilized' through debt, binding contracts and financial aid.

Anybody posturing for high ground is delusional.

This shows little regard for nuance and actual facts of history . And If I may , this logic also falls prey to ?both sideism?

Empires of the past were cruel but there was a symmetry of sorts , when destruction could be meted out largely via hand to hand combat and the results of one civilization ?s excesses were reversible with the next turn of events .

We also refer to this era as historic past or the dark ages / medieval times . This was also when Asia was at its peak .

Now then forward to 18th century and industrial revolution when the western point of view defines as the modern era, the effects of which have been nearly irreversible on many cultures and the devastating effects of which people are still living with . And this is to a large extent the legacy of the British and Western Europeans - whether be it the arbitrary borders in Middle East  Africa , or the partition in India.

A band of 50 English gentlemen Mowing down 10,000 African tribals using hyper advanced maxim guns ? tribals who are defending their land ? while carrying the ?white mans burden?  in the modern era is NOT civilization

The human rights rule of law etc was all applicable within the borders of the European nation state . Once they were in foreign lands they acted worse than nazis during ww2.  ? British soldiers in India blew up thousand of civilians by tying them to mouths of cannons after they had already surrendered - and this is happening during relative modern mid 19th century when you already had steam ships and telegraph and the camera .

At the same those Same European ?gentlemen? once back on their shores , were ballroom dancing just like in Jane Austen s romantic novels

Again - I don?t blame people on this forum for not knowing all this . It is the way history is taught in our schools .

But yes , many of these ?superiority? of culture talking points are the same ones used by white supremacists . So there is that . 

The  good thing from my perspective atleast is US is the only western nation to realize the folly of its past and constantly iterate and improve .

Whereas Europe has never really apologized for its past sins . In Britain they still have stupid shit awards honoring soldiers of the British empire .

 

[nosuchreality]

What fictionalized woke drivel.

Human rights rule of law, ROFLMAO.  Just wow, technically yes, it was on the books, but in reality the application was based on class and money.

British cannoning civilians...  oh yes, execution of of rebellion armed insurrection.

You should really bring up the claim about cutting of thumbs too.

None of which is about the superiority of culture, which is those other poster's claims.  Mine is just the silliness running around rewriting history and claiming vast technological superiority of English gentlemen sipping tea on safari to bag themselves a few thousand natives with their Maxim guns.  The reality being 700 solder force in a defensive camp attacked by a 6000 person force armed with spears and some guns against, defensive machine gun positions...  you really need to stop watching Hollywood for history.

But please, continue re-whitewashing history.

 

[fortune11]

Next time you are in London, go to the Imperial War Museum or the Victoria and Albert museum -- these are British  soldiers own accounts in their personal diaries and those of their own war correspondents for crying out loud ! There  are also photographers like Felice Beato who have captured some of this stuff from China and India on film in the mid 19th century !

I had more respect for your views until now, but seeing your reaction  -- looks like you have a strong bias and dig in your heels without looking for further evidence ... just like all the other MAGA cohort on this forum.

Well , believe what you want to -- it does give one more comfort to live in their self created bubble of thought and I have no arguments with that. 

 

[Kings]

ah yes, white people today should apologize for something none of them did to people today who had nothing done to them  : :

meanwhile, china of today has millions of muslims in concentration camps while they take advantage of their own people for economic gain and exploit african nations for their resources

but yes, white people of today are the problem  : :

 

[Irvinecommuter]

I'd say pre-WWII, or really pre-Today, but those are all really misspeaks as today really is the same as yesterday despite all the posturing and what British empire did from 1500- 1950 is basically same as what every other power through history has done.

Whether Mongolia, China Aztecs, Eygptians, Persia or any other one and today, the same reindeer games go on and the exploitation and domination is more subtle and 'civilized' through debt, binding contracts and financial aid.

Anybody posturing for high ground is delusional.

I am not preaching any level of moral high ground....rather pure economics.  What factors allowed a country to be great and why that country is no longer great.  That's how this conversation started.  Spain was the dominant country in the 15th/16th century because of its dominance in trade and monopoly of New World silver/gold.  England was dominant in the 18th/19th century because the rest of Europe was in shambles and its global network of colonies. 

Remember, the discussion started about why UK was no longer dominant...then it went to UK's greatest contribution to humanity was uniting people of all races/regions together.  That's how we got into the social/moral discussion. 

 

[fortune11]

I'd say pre-WWII, or really pre-Today, but those are all really misspeaks as today really is the same as yesterday despite all the posturing and what British empire did from 1500- 1950 is basically same as what every other power through history has done.

Whether Mongolia, China Aztecs, Eygptians, Persia or any other one and today, the same reindeer games go on and the exploitation and domination is more subtle and 'civilized' through debt, binding contracts and financial aid.

Anybody posturing for high ground is delusional.

I am not preaching any level of moral high ground....rather pure economics.  What factors allowed a country to be great and why that country is no longer great.  That's how this conversation started.  Spain was the dominant country in the 15th/16th century because of its dominance in trade and monopoly of New World silver/gold.  England was dominant in the 18th/19th century because the rest of Europe was in shambles and its global network of colonies. 

Remember, the discussion started about why UK was no longer dominant...then it went to UK's greatest contribution to humanity was uniting people of all races/regions together.  That's how we got into the social/moral discussion.

Yes , no one is saying anyone has to apologize today in the US

But just don't gloat and take the high ground like some of these Europeans do.  They should just say , yes we looted and cheated and mass murdered , but so what -- and we can all move on. 

But then we pretend that there were no other villains until Hitler came along and messed everything up -- which is blatantly false. 

 

[Happiness]

ah yes, white people today should apologize for something none of them did to people today who had nothing done to them  : :

meanwhile, china of today has millions of muslims in concentration camps while they take advantage of their own people for economic gain and exploit african nations for their resources

but yes, white people of today are the problem  : :

All major Dem 2020 POTUS candidates support reparations. Yes that's right. Even if your ancestors never owned any slaves or were even in the US when slavery existed, you, as a taxpayer, will have to cough up reparations.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

ah yes, white people today should apologize for something none of them did to people today who had nothing done to them  : :

meanwhile, china of today has millions of muslims in concentration camps while they take advantage of their own people for economic gain and exploit african nations for their resources

but yes, white people of today are the problem  : :

All major Dem 2020 POTUS candidates support reparations. Yes that's right. Even if your ancestors never owned any slaves or were even in the US when slavery existed, you, as a taxpayer, will have to cough up reparations.

Seriously...do conservative have concentration problems?  Who is talking about reparations?

 

[fortune11]

These guys are about to get a kick in the butt in 2020 again despite all time highs in stocks and strong labor market

So ? Expect more racial nonsense being talked up - all the Fox News uncles are already getting riled up watching hannity and Tucker  - more yuuuge caravans coming our way too

 

[morekaos]

Bring it.