rental value of a 3/2.5 detached 1700 sq ft. condo portola
- Thread starter villiagepeople
- Start date
NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
even if you were in all cash and bought everything back in march of 09 i doubt you would have beaten the market by 100%, especially if you have held "conservative dividend" stocks... spy from march 09 to now has doubled...
What you're looking for sounds like a hybrid of a commission/fee based structure.
For me personally, I'm not a typical investor, and my adviser knows this. I have a lot of professional experience in various asset classes because of my background, so I'm on a fee-only structure, which works out best for my situation. That means I meet with my guy at his office, or we go to Bon Epi and he charges me per hour (unless I buy the milk tea, then that hour is free). We bounce ideas off each other, and debate whether one idea is great, or why one idea is risky. It reminds me more of friends discussing investing than a typical client/adviser meeting. This isn't a traditional relationship.
The normal client/adviser relationship is the transaction based structure, meaning your adviser gets paid for every transaction you complete through them. So if you decide to go with a mega firm like Northwestern Mutual, Merrill Lynch, or Goldman Sachs, this is the type of fee structure you should expect. This model doesn't personally work for me because I don't like being baby stepped, and game'd into opportunities. It reminds me of a sleazy car salesman trying to push me into a test drive. I'm not saying this is the case with all the advisers at the mega firms, because there are talented people working there who can make you money, but it just isn't for me. The transaction fee can be variable, so do your research. Always ask what they are. Advisers will refer to them as management fees, front loaded payments, or rear loaded payments. Generally speaking, if a guy is asking for anything above 2-3%, I think it's too much. Anyone can feel free to disagree with me, but if you do the math on say a 5% loaded payment, a $100,000 investment can end up costing you $5,000 in fees alone. That's ridiculous to me, but for others it may not be. That's why I say this entire relationship is a personal one.
You can speculate about my investment performance all you want (actually you don't even have to speculate about the few stocks I posted earlier in this thread, all of them have documented positive performance since 2009). I'm not here to convince you of anything.
What I do know is that you're saving away every month for a detached TIC condo that has no potential to ever return your money, even on a dollar for dollar basis, for many years to come. To me that's not an investment, at least one that makes sense to me. It's throwing money into a fire and hoping for gold coins to come out the other end.
i see your stocks... and unless you bought something else like appl, nflx or amzn, i'm calling you out on the claimed 200% gain since 09...
the whole point is timing.. with the stock market.. there's no sure thing, that's why it's called risk... all i'm saying is indie can't tell me that i'm doing my calcs wrong cause i didn't use i higher rate of return... when i told him that i just put money in a bank account... he says that "it's easy to make these returns by buying dividend stocks"... then the market takes a dump and i just wanted to show that he was wrong trying to tell me i can put money in the market and expect my principle back when i need it... then he goes off on a tangent about how he made 200%... [which i'm saying is bs]... if you want to take his advice then go ahead.. i'm not here to get investment advice...
qwerty
Well-known member
has anyone ever used these guys? its peter schiffs firm, im a big fan of his and have thought about using these guys but have never pulled the trigger.
http://www.europac.net/about/branches/newport_beach_branch
http://www.europac.net/about/branches/newport_beach_branch
IndieDev
New member
Suddenly this topic has become a lot more popular judging by the private messages I've gotten. 
First off, picking a financial adviser is a personal experience. Sure, I could simply say "Here's my guy, he's great, etc...", but that would be doing a disservice to you as a person who is looking to make money through sound diversification/investing.
You have to meet the person/entity that you are going to be trusting with your cash. I can't make that choice for you. It has to feel right to you, and you alone. That being said, here's a list of cues and pointers I went through when picking an adviser for my personal situation.
IndieDev's Tips:
[list type=decimal]
[*]Get educated. You're responsible for your money, not your adviser. If he says invest into Guatemalan real estate, and you end up losing your hat, it's your fault, not your advisers. Do your own due diligence with any investment or market opportunity, even individual people, that's why we have the internet.
[*] Think of your adviser as a team member of your own business entity. He can simple suggest opportunities to you. If he's good, you end up keeping him on your team. If not, fire him, and find a replacement.
[*]There are no ultimate solutions. If you meet up with an adviser who ever says the following, "This opportunity is a guaranteed winner!", shake that person's hand, and politely say good bye as you walk out the door. There are always risk, and a good adviser is knowledgeable enough to explain to you at a fundamental level (not marketing speak) why they feel any opportunity can be a potential money maker. Expect some uncertainty, it's unavoidable. When it doubt, go back to #1.
[*]Who are they? Obvious one. Are they a Harvard educated MBA with a history of performance over a long period of time, or are they sitting on their daddies computer on TalkIrvine talking about pricing strategy? One thing you will find about this industry is that there are a lot of dirty crooks. People who wouldn't think twice about taking your money, and using it to remodel their Bel Air home while they tell you to "invest" your cash into worthless opportunities, claiming them to be otherwise. Again, go back to #1 when in doubt. Here's a handy website that will give you some background on any adviser with a large firm,http://adviserinfo.sec.gov/
[*]How are they audited? Are they being audited by a reputable accounting firm/entity, or are they audited by a 13 year old kid on TalkIrvine calling people losers who can't afford to live here? Ask them directly. If it's the latter, run away quickly, or you might find that your money doesn't exist anymore 18 months down the line.
[*]What is their fee structure? Do they charge a percentage of your assets? Commission based? Make sure these terms are spelled out for you as transparently as possible. Anything that sounds irregular (remember #1), should raise a red flag.
[*]When in doubt, go back to #1. You are your best advocate, because frankly, you have the most to lose.
[/list]
Hope this helped, now go out there, and turn your dollar into two.
First off, picking a financial adviser is a personal experience. Sure, I could simply say "Here's my guy, he's great, etc...", but that would be doing a disservice to you as a person who is looking to make money through sound diversification/investing.
You have to meet the person/entity that you are going to be trusting with your cash. I can't make that choice for you. It has to feel right to you, and you alone. That being said, here's a list of cues and pointers I went through when picking an adviser for my personal situation.
IndieDev's Tips:
[list type=decimal]
[*]Get educated. You're responsible for your money, not your adviser. If he says invest into Guatemalan real estate, and you end up losing your hat, it's your fault, not your advisers. Do your own due diligence with any investment or market opportunity, even individual people, that's why we have the internet.
[*] Think of your adviser as a team member of your own business entity. He can simple suggest opportunities to you. If he's good, you end up keeping him on your team. If not, fire him, and find a replacement.
[*]There are no ultimate solutions. If you meet up with an adviser who ever says the following, "This opportunity is a guaranteed winner!", shake that person's hand, and politely say good bye as you walk out the door. There are always risk, and a good adviser is knowledgeable enough to explain to you at a fundamental level (not marketing speak) why they feel any opportunity can be a potential money maker. Expect some uncertainty, it's unavoidable. When it doubt, go back to #1.
[*]Who are they? Obvious one. Are they a Harvard educated MBA with a history of performance over a long period of time, or are they sitting on their daddies computer on TalkIrvine talking about pricing strategy? One thing you will find about this industry is that there are a lot of dirty crooks. People who wouldn't think twice about taking your money, and using it to remodel their Bel Air home while they tell you to "invest" your cash into worthless opportunities, claiming them to be otherwise. Again, go back to #1 when in doubt. Here's a handy website that will give you some background on any adviser with a large firm,http://adviserinfo.sec.gov/
[*]How are they audited? Are they being audited by a reputable accounting firm/entity, or are they audited by a 13 year old kid on TalkIrvine calling people losers who can't afford to live here? Ask them directly. If it's the latter, run away quickly, or you might find that your money doesn't exist anymore 18 months down the line.
[*]What is their fee structure? Do they charge a percentage of your assets? Commission based? Make sure these terms are spelled out for you as transparently as possible. Anything that sounds irregular (remember #1), should raise a red flag.
[*]When in doubt, go back to #1. You are your best advocate, because frankly, you have the most to lose.
[/list]
Hope this helped, now go out there, and turn your dollar into two.
IndieDev - good advice. Regarding fee structure, what does your guy do and what did you look for? Ideally, I would like someone who is on a modest flat fee + percentage of anything above what I earn in a CD. I dont want the guy to starve working for me but I dont want him living like a king even when I make nothing. I dont know if my ideal model even exists so want to understand what most people end up with.
villiagepeople
New member
IndieDev said:
even if you were in all cash and bought everything back in march of 09 i doubt you would have beaten the market by 100%, especially if you have held "conservative dividend" stocks... spy from march 09 to now has doubled...
IndieDev
New member
rkp said:
What you're looking for sounds like a hybrid of a commission/fee based structure.
For me personally, I'm not a typical investor, and my adviser knows this. I have a lot of professional experience in various asset classes because of my background, so I'm on a fee-only structure, which works out best for my situation. That means I meet with my guy at his office, or we go to Bon Epi and he charges me per hour (unless I buy the milk tea, then that hour is free). We bounce ideas off each other, and debate whether one idea is great, or why one idea is risky. It reminds me more of friends discussing investing than a typical client/adviser meeting. This isn't a traditional relationship.
The normal client/adviser relationship is the transaction based structure, meaning your adviser gets paid for every transaction you complete through them. So if you decide to go with a mega firm like Northwestern Mutual, Merrill Lynch, or Goldman Sachs, this is the type of fee structure you should expect. This model doesn't personally work for me because I don't like being baby stepped, and game'd into opportunities. It reminds me of a sleazy car salesman trying to push me into a test drive. I'm not saying this is the case with all the advisers at the mega firms, because there are talented people working there who can make you money, but it just isn't for me. The transaction fee can be variable, so do your research. Always ask what they are. Advisers will refer to them as management fees, front loaded payments, or rear loaded payments. Generally speaking, if a guy is asking for anything above 2-3%, I think it's too much. Anyone can feel free to disagree with me, but if you do the math on say a 5% loaded payment, a $100,000 investment can end up costing you $5,000 in fees alone. That's ridiculous to me, but for others it may not be. That's why I say this entire relationship is a personal one.
IndieDev
New member
villagepeople said:
You can speculate about my investment performance all you want (actually you don't even have to speculate about the few stocks I posted earlier in this thread, all of them have documented positive performance since 2009). I'm not here to convince you of anything.
What I do know is that you're saving away every month for a detached TIC condo that has no potential to ever return your money, even on a dollar for dollar basis, for many years to come. To me that's not an investment, at least one that makes sense to me. It's throwing money into a fire and hoping for gold coins to come out the other end.
villiagepeople
New member
IndieDev said:
i see your stocks... and unless you bought something else like appl, nflx or amzn, i'm calling you out on the claimed 200% gain since 09...
With everyone sharing the great numbers, I would like to share my ability. I started contributing to my 401K in 2002 and since then, I have always put the maximum. My total contribution is somewhere north of $130K and today, my account shows $128K. I seem to never be able to pick right. It is very frustrating working hard and saving hard to see it go down. I know that recent times have been worse but point is that my account never showed any major gains.
villiagepeople
New member
LAtoOC said:
the whole point is timing.. with the stock market.. there's no sure thing, that's why it's called risk... all i'm saying is indie can't tell me that i'm doing my calcs wrong cause i didn't use i higher rate of return... when i told him that i just put money in a bank account... he says that "it's easy to make these returns by buying dividend stocks"... then the market takes a dump and i just wanted to show that he was wrong trying to tell me i can put money in the market and expect my principle back when i need it... then he goes off on a tangent about how he made 200%... [which i'm saying is bs]... if you want to take his advice then go ahead.. i'm not here to get investment advice...
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
@rkp:
If you can tell us, what kind of stocks were your 401k invested in? Seems strange that starting in 2002 you are still down unless the fund managers really blew it in 2008-2011.
If you can tell us, what kind of stocks were your 401k invested in? Seems strange that starting in 2002 you are still down unless the fund managers really blew it in 2008-2011.
My first 5 years being green and naive, I put in something my company referred to as lifestage funds. They basically have a target retirement date and rebalance every year based on that year. So there is lifestage 2025, 2030, etc. That made 2-3% a year and never really did well. I think fees were high as well.
Then I moved half into big cap and half into emerging market and it started to do better until 2009. After crash, I moved the big cap portion to what I thought was gold at $1100/ounce but turns out that it doesnt hold gold but buys mining stock and hasnt even come close to tracking the growth in gold. That was my mistake but with only 20 choices in my 401k, its hard to pick winners.
Then I moved half into big cap and half into emerging market and it started to do better until 2009. After crash, I moved the big cap portion to what I thought was gold at $1100/ounce but turns out that it doesnt hold gold but buys mining stock and hasnt even come close to tracking the growth in gold. That was my mistake but with only 20 choices in my 401k, its hard to pick winners.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
@rkp:
Ah... so you were the "fund manager" that blew it.
It's tough... but I guess that's why like Indie is saying, to use a professional.
At first, I wondered why Indie used one but his later explanation made more sense.
We all wish we had crystal balls... I remember telling the Mrs. when we got her iPhone to invest in the companies that we use in our life... and that was when AAPL was $100. I also thought NetFlix would have been good when they went started doing unlimited streaming in 2008... now look at them. Does 85C trade publicly... although I think that's just a baked good bubble.
At least you are near even... which is more than many others.
Ah... so you were the "fund manager" that blew it.
It's tough... but I guess that's why like Indie is saying, to use a professional.
At first, I wondered why Indie used one but his later explanation made more sense.
We all wish we had crystal balls... I remember telling the Mrs. when we got her iPhone to invest in the companies that we use in our life... and that was when AAPL was $100. I also thought NetFlix would have been good when they went started doing unlimited streaming in 2008... now look at them. Does 85C trade publicly... although I think that's just a baked good bubble.
At least you are near even... which is more than many others.
usctrojancpa
Well-known member
Company 401k suck because mutual funds suck. The majority of mutual funds UNDERPERFORM the markets, especially when you account for the fees that they charge you. I've transferred everything over into my SEP IRA and actively trade my retirement account. The way that I look at it is...it's my money and it's in my best interest to try to maximize it. That being said, I'm over about 40% YTD (including today's move down). DISCLOSURE: I primarily trade options.