Raising children in Irvine

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<p>This is a constant struggle my wife and I have. She grew up as an epileptic and was given quite alot. In adulthood she is and has been caught up with the "MUST have" group. When met in Arizona and things were quite different there. Here she is bombarded with "you MUST have ...". Unfortunately she gives into this quite alot. </p>

<p>With this type of struggle, combined with this area, our children will probably be little wanting machines. I don't know, we are going to have to adopt anyway and that will add a completely different skew to whatever happens. I grew up with as the middle child of three along with teacher parents. Both parents were from poor families with even less.</p>

<p>The way my dad instilled a sense of work ethic was for us to actually WORK. Working in the fields picking chilis, pecans, lettuce, etc. VERY hard work, but we learned. </p>

<p>What I see is that the children do not learn how hard it is to make a living, what things they need to do for any type of situtation. Giving them whatever they want teaches them no responsibility, "i'll always get what I want from Mom or Dad". But that's this area in general. Most people want to give thier children a sense of entitlement, a piece of hardware to be better. NOT the skills to be better....</p>

<p>Just my .02$</p>

<p>Anyways good luck</p>

<p>-bix</p>
 
<p>"During our search for a new home, the quality of people who live in a neighborhood has gone from almost a non-factor to nearly the most important one, and its the one factor that's hardest to measure before you live in an area."</p>

<p>Yeah, one open house and follow-up tour with an RE agent isn't enough to judge a neighborhood. I do a few things to try and get a better feel for areas. Drive through them at different times of the day. I go by places on weekends, weekday evenings, mornings, etc. to see what's up. Are there kids playing in the street together? Are parents all hanging out in front of one garage chattin' it up? Neighborhoods with lots of basketball hoops out in front seem to have a better community flavor. </p>

<p>If I see a neighbor of a home I am checking out, I'll say hi to them and attempt to engage in conversation. I ask simple things like how long have you lived here, how old are the kids on the street, what do you think of the schools etc. etc. On a 20-30 year purchase, I want to feel pretty good about the people living around me and you can get good real data from the people living around a house you might want to buy... </p>
 
This thread is an indicator of the IHB demographic that have kids. The limited posters on this topic should signal zovall that his members are mostly singles and dinks. Use this info and expand this site to a even broader audience.
 
<p>I'm for spoiling your kids!</p>

<p>When I was a kid, my parents didn't have much money, but even when they did have enough to spend more on me (the only child BTW) they would always deny my requests for new brand name clothes or gadgets or whatever, I guess b/c they tried to teach me responsibility and not to spoil me. Being on the receiving end (like many of your kids are), I'll say it causes nothing but resentment towards your parents who didn't want to brighten up your life as a teenager with gifts and perks. </p>

<p>So I'd personally planning to buy my kid (who is just a toddler right now) everything I can afford to buy, be that a flashy car or brand clothes or a fancy cell phone. There is plenty of other ways to teach your kids responsibility and humility (have them volunteer for some safe activities, teach them to donate to charity, have spiritual enlightenment activities, impress your religious and moral values upon them, teach them to read books and be nice to other people, whatever works for you), but don't purposefully deny them things you can provide. </p>

<p> Just remember your teenage years: it is a difficult time! Many teens are struggling to fit in, to be accepted by others, and whatever works to boost their confidence, their parents should provide. If that means a fancy cell phone (and you can afford it), why not get it? Who else is going to care enough about your kids' happiness but you? That's your chance to make a difference in your own kid's life. I can totally see the point made here that you are trying to teach your kids some values by not spoiling them, but it just doesn't work. </p>
 
I'm all about not spoiling your kids!



It is interesting that it seems that people who grow up without much money, want spoil their children and others who grew up with money do not want to spoil their children.



I grew up in an affluent family in nothern suburbs of Dallas, and my parents somewhat spoiled me by buying me everything i had ever wanted. My father was so consumed with his business that he really didn't have much time for me and the family, therefore giving materials things (ie. like a bmw on my 16th birthday), and a lot of allowance money was his way of express his love for his children. In the beginning, i didn't complain getting that best video games and designer clothes than my other friends, but after a while it left me feeling very empty inside. I wanted my parents to attend my little league basketball, baseball and tennis games, but they never showed up once. I was always jealous of my friend's parents who coached baseball and football and making their kids have the best positions like first base and quarterback.



After high school, I went a top Private University and then to a top 10 B-School with tuition and expenses all paid by my dad because my father had my career and life all planned out.



Even after college, my father wanted me to work for his well established company and provide me with a "big executive salary" position at his company ("a salary that i would not be able to get anywhere else with my level of experience at the time). In my early twenties i enjoyed it but slowly i realized that this was going to cripple my ambition and my future. My older brother and I worked at the same company and I knew if i were i to leave the family business that my older would inherit my father's fortune. Three years after working for my father, I told him that i wanted to resign and start my own company with the saving i had.



In the beginning it was very tough leaving a very comfortable high six figure salary and working from my basement with very little pay. Now, I don't have any regrets from my decision back then. My new venture is doing well and profitable and now i almost making the same salary i did working for my dad. What's different this time is that feel that now i am worth what i am getting paid and i have more control over my future and my life.



I share this story because now i am in a position where i will soon be a dad. I believe that you should give your child just enough to achieve their dreams, but not too much where they do absolutely nothing. Personally, (my opinion) I don't think the children of Newport Coast and Shady Canyon will come close to the success and achievement of their parents, as many of them don't know the meaning of being "hungry". I love my parents but they are not perfect. I don't want to replace "loving them" with "giving them money" I want to be there for my child and be a mentor, his best friend, and his football and baseball coach. I also want to help my child pursue his gifts and passions early on, not basing his entire self worth on a man-made "cookie cutting system" of attending University High, getting accepted to Harvard, Stanford, Cal Tech, Berkeley, and forcing him to become a doctor or lawyer. Maybe this is the life i grew up with that i do not want to repeat for my child.
 
<p>Who says I'm against combining both? Spoil your kids and be involved in their lives, let them get the best of the both worlds :)</p>

<p>Jpxdigital: if your dad paid more attention to you and was more involved in your life, you'd have nothing to be unhappy about, right? I'm not planning to get so wrapped up in making extra money as to forget about my kid. My point is: if you can afford it, don't deny your kids things they want. Nobody says they should be rewarded for bad behavior, but if they are doing well in school and otherwise don't make your life miserable (and most kids are like that), there is no point or benefit in withholding things from them. </p>
 
<a href="http://online.wsj.com/home"><img height="56" alt="The Wall Street Journal" width="418" border="0" src="http://s.wsj.net/img/printformat_logo.gif" /></a>



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GETTING GOING

By JONATHAN CLEMENTS

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Making Kids Money Savvy:


Try These Four Financial Tricks




<p class="times">Give them a few dollars -- and some financial common sense.</p>

<p class="times">Want to make sure your children grow up to be money-smart adults? Check out the four experiments below.</p>

<p class="times">My advice: Try these tricks on your kids, talk to them about the lessons to be learned -- and then quietly muse about whether you, too, fall prey to these financial traps.</p>

<p class="times"><strong>Favoring today.</strong> If children are to save diligently once they're adults, they need to learn to delay gratification. Yet this skill doesn't come easily.</p>

<p class="times">Want proof? Let's say you give your kids $5 a week in pocket money. When it's next time to fork over their allowance, offer them a choice: They can have the usual $5 right away -- or they can have $7, equal to a whopping 40% more, if they're willing to wait a week.</p>

<reprintsdisclaimer></reprintsdisclaimer>

<p class="times">"It's about immediate gratification," says Shlomo Benartzi, an economics professor at the University of California at Los Angeles. "Getting nothing right now doesn't sound good, so they'd probably go for the $5."</p>

<p class="times">That doesn't necessarily mean your children want their pocket money all at once. Prof. Benartzi, cofounder of the Behavioral Finance Forum, also suggests offering a choice between, say, $7 right away and $1 every day. He suspects children might favor the daily $1 -- because, like adults, they prefer a series of small gains to a single big win.</p>

<p class="times"><strong>Slowing spending.</strong> We think about money differently, depending on its form. For instance, we're usually more careful about our spending if we are paying with cold cash rather than a credit card.</p>

<p class="times">To test this in your kids, try varying the form of their pocket money. One week, give them five singles. The next week, give them a $5 bill. You will likely find your children are slower to spend the $5 bill.</p>

<p class="times">"It seems to be perceived as having more value," says Dhananjay Nayakankuppam, a marketing professor at the University of Iowa. "The subjective pain of parting with the $5 bill is greater than the subjective pain of parting with five $1 bills."</p>

<p class="times">Adults show the same tendency. In a study that appeared in the March 2006 Journal of Consumer Research, Prof. Nayakankuppam and his co-authors, Arul Mishra and Himanshu Mishra, found that people were less inclined to spend if they had, say, a $50 bill rather than 10 $5 bills.</p>

<p class="times"><strong>Making a wish list.</strong> We have all hankered after items we've seen at the mall or in an advertisement. Sometimes, we buy and end up disappointed. Sometimes, we wait a few days and the urge passes.</p>

<p class="times">Want to deter your children from impulse purchases? Consider the strategy used by reader Helane Becker, a financial analyst who lives in Millburn, N.J.</p>

<p class="times">When her two kids mention things they want, Ms. Becker adds the items to each child's wish list. A few days or weeks later, she goes over the lists with her kids -- and sees which items they still want to buy with their own money or receive as birthday or holiday gifts.</p>

<p class="times">"When they were little, it surprised me that, by Friday, they sometimes couldn't remember a specific toy they so desperately wanted on Tuesday," Ms. Becker says.</p>

<p class="times"><strong>Keeping the change.</strong> Children seem to have endless desires, which shouldn't be a huge shock. After all, their purchases usually aren't costing them anything, because they are spending their parents' money. The trick: Make your kids feel like they're spending their own money.</p>

<p class="times">I learned this with my daughter. When Hannah went on her first school field trip, I gave her $5 and told her I wanted the change. She returned with a bag of trinkets and a few pennies.</p>

<p class="times">On the next trip, I gave her $5 again. But this time, I told her she could keep any money that was left over. She came back with $5.</p>

<p class="times">I later tried the same trick with Hannah's younger brother, Henry. It wasn't nearly so successful. Still, it provided another chance to talk about money -- which, as long as parents don't overdo it, is probably a good thing.</p>

<p class="times">"You don't want to turn them into money-saving automatons," warns Meir Statman, a finance professor at Santa Clara University in California. "It's good to know when to put money into the piggy bank. But it's also good to know when to take it out."</p>











URL for this article:


<a style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 11px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial, Helv, Helvetica" href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120468099339812197.html">http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120468099339812197.html</a>















 
I was spoiled and got everything I wanted, so did my siblings. My two brothers turned out alright. Me, on the other hand, that's open to debate.
 
<em>Personally, (my opinion) I don't think the children of New Port Coast and Shady Canyon will come close to success and achieve of their parents, as don't know the meaning of being "hungry"</em>





absolutely... i have one friend who wants to believe he is from an upper-middle, maybe upper class family, like top 10-20% of the population. he is in complete denial of just how well-off his family is. i've told him countless that families living in custom 9000 sq ft homes on several acres that own companies whose name would be recognized by many people are not top 20%. more like the top 0.2%. but how can someone understand that when its the only world they know?





and even for the rest of my peers, there's still a lot we take for granted even if its not on the level of that one guy. too many of younger generation assume that getting to live in these parts will be a given -- forgetting that for many people like their own parents, it takes working your butt off to raise your family here. so how does everyone these days afford every basic luxury like cell phones, flat screens, dvd players, internet, cable, digital cable, hd, netflix plans, ipods, gps, nice clothes, nice cars, dining out -- things that seem to be the "norm" for everyone -- when back in the day a well-off family might be happy to have a big screen tv and laserdisc. to me the only difference i can find is that the younger generation simply uses more credit. but with that going away, i think people are starting to come to the realization its not so easy. can you still afford all those things and still afford the same things your parents did for you? no. are people saving for the future like their parents did? no.





so having grown up in oc, i am sad to say this... but among my peers i see very few that will be as successful as their parents. sure most of us have turned out to be college-educated engineers, business professionals, doctors and lawyers. some of us will be very successful and even the "mediocre" of the bunch will still be upper-middle class, so relative to the avg american they shouldnt expect too much sympathy for their "plight." but none of them could actually buy the same home they were raised in on their own means, yet all of them assume they will live the same lifestyle, if not better, as their parents.
 
my parents couldn't even buy the same home that I was raised in nor could they buy thier parents' homes and they are fairly well off. However, they could afford to buy a nice home in an upper-middle class neighborhood in almost any other state in this country.
 
<p>"there is no point or benefit in withholding things from them"</p>

<p>Uh, maybe teaching them patience? I'd consider that a benefit. Maybe teaching them the value of money, how to save and achieve a goal? I'd consider those benefits... Maybe teaching them to be appreciative of what they have vs. always yearning for more. Definitely a benefit there.</p>

<p>There is seemingly no end to the desires of young children. They want the Dora the Explorer cereal in the super market, they want to wear their rain boots when it's hot and sunny outside, they want a red sports car style riding vehicle like their friend's when they just got the John Deere riding tractor they wanted the month before... Even if you have the means, you have to withhold from them or you would be overwhelmed with buying and they would never learn self-control. </p>
 
<p>The WSJ article above is because I'm a Digital Pack Rat and every good digital asset that I find I send it to myself, my Yahoo inbox has all kind of things.





I recently practiced the delayed gratification trick with a book that my daughter wanted "<strong>NOW!</strong>" . I had a Border's Bookstore coupon that offered me a 40% discount in the second book but the coupon was valid starting 3 days from that Sunday that we were at the store, (we forgot the coupon at home, my wife remind me when we were about to go to the cashier). I told to my daughter: <strong>you can take 1 book now, or 2 books 3 days from now?...</strong> <strong>think about it...</strong> the books belong to the series of illustrated books: <strong><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_Mew_Mew">Tokyo Mew Mew</a></strong> , when she was younger it was very hard to convince her of waiting for something for tomorrow: I want it all, I want it now (like Queen's song).





For a moment I thought that the trick won't work, she said: "I want to take the book with me", but 5 minutes later, she came and told me: "Ok, daddy I can wait for Wednesday and take the 2 consecutive books". I told her: "Congratulations, you took the smartest choice". </p>
 
I like this discussion about instilling values in kids. . . as a Psychology person, I have some observations. . .





Morality and values are learned at home, not in one's environment. I believe the outside environment is a large (and attractive) confound in the explanation of the values with which one grows up. This kind of externalizing the problem ("my kids are snobs because we raised them in Newport") is one of the many ways in which people want to not look at how they, as parents, are contributing to a situation.





I live at home, and I am very cheap. (I'm in my late 20's and am still in school.) Why? My parents deprived me! Okay, not "deprived," but they certainly did not indulge my brothers and I at all. I remember when I was about 12 and the family down the block brought their 18-19 year old son a Dodge Viper. This guy still, as far as I can tell, has not accomplished much. My understanding of that at the time was not envy, but more of the guy being a counterexample-- I did not want to be like him. For me to have this as a reaction at that time is something I can only attribute to the ways in which I was raised-- the values that were put forth around me. (I just drove by their house the other day, and they had bought their younger son (younger than I am) a new 5-series).





I've worked with kids of all age levels as part of my internships, and I can say that no matter which level of Socio-Economic Status they had, there were people trying to look rich across the board. The nicer the image they tried to project, the uglier things were at home. One thought I had once was that if you look at the difference between the guy in the Barrio who overspends on rims, etc., and the guy in Newport who stretched way too far at Jamboree at the 73-- they might look kind of different, but numbers-wise, their financial picture is still all about overspending. In a crisis, they would be in about the same position.





It's hard sometimes looking at people my age spending all this money, and looking very successful, but it also seems very fleeting. (I used to drive a hand-me-down Mercedes 560SEC and now drive a Civic. . . downgrade! But I'm not any less happy!) When I finish school (and dissertation!) I'll be able to establish a good job, I just have to be patient.





And when I can finally, finally buy a condo (maybe in Irvine) I think that will feel very solid in comparison to all the stuff I have not bought along the way!
 
so this is what im hearing:





Spoiled kids = resentment towards parents (assumes at least one parent works hard and doesnt have time for family, but can afford material things)


Deprived kids = resentment towards parents for not providing them things they want (especially if parents can afford it)





I think both of those statements are true, like blackacre said, you just have to do a good job of doing both and you should be good to go. I know, easier said than done.
 
<p><em>Spoiled kids = resentment towards parents (assumes at least one parent works hard and doesnt have time for family, but can afford material things)


Deprived kids = resentment towards parents for not providing them things they want (especially if parents can afford it)</em></p>

<p>What, you mean teenagers are supposed to <em>like</em> their parents? </p>
 
i remember some of the best lines from the cosby show were about how the parents and kids dealt with their wealth.





vanessa complaining that she was teased at school and called a "rich girl"


cosby: see, let's get one thing straight. you're mother and i... are rich. you... have nothing!





theo buys a $95 designer shirt that his dad makes him return


cosby: theo, i dont have a $95 shirt... and i have a job! no 14 yr old boy should have a $95 shirt unless he's on stage with his 4 brothers.
 
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