President Trump

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morekaos said:
You and many in Cali will again be blindsided when the GOP does not lose in 2018 and Trump gets re-elected.  Can lead a horse to water but...
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I don't put it past GOP to voter fraud and gerrymander their way to victories.

But again...geography favors rural white voters and thus GOP...but I am sure you were saying the same in 2006.
 
Liar Loan said:
Irvinecommuter said:
fortune11 said:
To his crowd ?- ? you will win so much ... excuse me .. you will play chess so much your head will start spinning .. you will be begging ... mr trump please stop .... we can?t take all this chess .. our MAGA heads are hurting  ?  :)
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Trump has always been the great white hope even going back to the 1980s...his garish apartment and partying lifestyle were things that middle America white people thought being rich was about.  Basically he is the person that poor white people want to be if they ever won a lot of money.
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You're definitely out of touch with middle America if this is what you think.  Midwesterners are known for their over-the-top humbleness and they resent outsized displays of wealth and ego-driven behavior.  They also resent people from California that talk down to them in a condescending way.
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LOL...that's why all those Trump supporters are like "HEY LOOK RICH GUY HE'S SO COOL" 

Romney was also a rich guy but he looked like Wall Street rich...not white trash rich like Trump.
 
Irvinecommuter said:
morekaos said:
You and many in Cali will again be blindsided when the GOP does not lose in 2018 and Trump gets re-elected.  Can lead a horse to water but...
Click to expand...

I don't put it past GOP to voter fraud and gerrymander their way to victories.

But again...geography favors rural white voters and thus GOP...but I am sure you were saying the same in 2006.
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No, I wasn't. GOP bench then sucked. I only halfway supported them then. Knew they were weak.  Was not surprised at all.
 
morekaos said:
Irvinecommuter said:
morekaos said:
You and many in Cali will again be blindsided when the GOP does not lose in 2018 and Trump gets re-elected.  Can lead a horse to water but...
Click to expand...

I don't put it past GOP to voter fraud and gerrymander their way to victories.

But again...geography favors rural white voters and thus GOP...but I am sure you were saying the same in 2006.
Click to expand...

No, I wasn't. GOP bench then sucked. I only halfway supported them then. Knew they were weak.  Was not surprised at all.
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Demographics are changing...it's just a matter of time. 

Dems have dropped the ball on state races, which allowed GOP to gerrymander.  That is being struck down in courts and statewide elections will go blue in the near future. 

What is happening in the US is not that different than what happened in California in the early 1990s with the passage of 187 and 215.  California was pretty reliably GOP between 1952 and 1992 (only Johnson won the state in 1964)...It's just a matter of time.
 
Irvinecommuter said:
Demographics are changing...it's just a matter of time. 
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True, and the Republicans had a diverse slate of candidates in 2016.  It was the Dems that had five candidates that were white, white, white, white, and white.
 
This is why the Dems are finatic about DACA.  They see this as the constituency of their future.  I think it is not entirely true. I know a fair share of non-white immigrant or immigrant descendants who are staunchly conservative and are 100% on board with Trump (but won't admit it publicly.  Many of my relatives (phillipino) were reliably democrat for years but have switched sides more recently.  The Dems may not get the constituency they believe they will.  As you said the demographics are changing.
 
morekaos said:
This is why the Dems are finatic about DACA.  They see this as the constituency of their future.  I think it is not entirely true. I know a fair share of non-white immigrant or immigrant descendants who are staunchly conservative and are 100% on board with Trump (but won't admit it publicly.  Many of my relatives (phillipino) were reliably democrat for years but have switched sides more recently.  The Dems may not get the constituency they believe they will.  As you said the demographics are changing.
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Demographics are changing.  It's a matter of time.
 
Liar Loan said:
Irvinecommuter said:
Demographics are changing...it's just a matter of time. 
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True, and the Republicans had a diverse slate of candidates in 2016.  It was the Dems that had five candidates that were white, white, white, white, and white.
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LOL...if you think it's about about the race of the candidate, then you are gravely mistaken.
 
Your 1990's California example is all about race, so the logical extension of that is to assume your national argument is about race also.  If you want me to understand, then you'll have to explain yourself better.
 
Irvinecommuter said:
morekaos said:
If all these countries are sending us "their best and brightest"  who are trying to escape the **itholes they live for whatever reason, are we not doing that country a disservice by taking their very "best and brightest" who should fight to make their native countries better? Are we not selfishly poaching the very people needed to make their home countries better?
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/eyerolls over and over again

Assuming you are being serious...the best of the best who come here helps people in their country by 1) sending money back or 2) returning to their home countries to help build industries.

It also improves on our standing in the world by setting a moral example that the American dream is real and that people can look to the US as a shiny beacon on the hill...but I guess Reagan is so whatever to GOP.

Seriously...10 dimension chess.
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So the American dream is to come here, work, send your wages home to support someone else in another country, get educated here on our dime then return home to use the capital and knowledge gained here to the betterment of another countries economy...thats the new American Dream? Sounds like Americans are Suckers.
 
morekaos said:
Irvinecommuter said:
morekaos said:
If all these countries are sending us "their best and brightest"  who are trying to escape the **itholes they live for whatever reason, are we not doing that country a disservice by taking their very "best and brightest" who should fight to make their native countries better? Are we not selfishly poaching the very people needed to make their home countries better?
Click to expand...

/eyerolls over and over again

Assuming you are being serious...the best of the best who come here helps people in their country by 1) sending money back or 2) returning to their home countries to help build industries.

It also improves on our standing in the world by setting a moral example that the American dream is real and that people can look to the US as a shiny beacon on the hill...but I guess Reagan is so whatever to GOP.

Seriously...10 dimension chess.
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So the American dream is to come here, work, send your wages home to support someone else in another country, get educated here on our dime then return home to use the capital and knowledge gained here to the betterment of another countries economy...thats the new American Dream? Sounds like Americans are Suckers.
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Seriously...did you miss the last 300 years of American history? 

It's what has been happening.  People come to the US to make a better living and send money while saving more to try and bring their families here.  Some go back but others stay...bring their family have families...make this country a better place.  Even if they go back, they bring with them American economic, political, and personal ideologies that help transfer their country to one friendlier to US relations. 

At some point, you are just playing ignorant.
 
Liar Loan said:
Your 1990's California example is all about race, so the logical extension of that is to assume your national argument is about race also.  If you want me to understand, then you'll have to explain yourself better.
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Again...you think in terms of race.  It's not about race..it's about ideologies.  It's about opening your society to new people and ideas.  It's about not fearing losing what you have but embracing the future.  It's looking forward and bring everyone up rather than catering to old ways of thinking and the the same group of people.  It's about social benefits over individual gains.  It's about education over jails and helping those less fortunate.

187/215 were not about race...it was about affirmative action.  Race is an element of affirmative action but it much more about understanding the need to reach out to underrepresented minorities and bringing them into the society.

GOP thinks about race all the time...that's not what it is about.

I joke to Panda about Georgia all the time but there is a strong kernel of truth there...no matter how "progressive" some places think they are...they're not California. 
 
Liar Loan said:
fortune11 - It sounds like you agree with my statement that "The reason people have immigrated to the US traditionally is because they were escaping sh*thole countries."  It's hard to know for sure, as your posts seem to contradict each other.  At any rate, what you are arguing is that Europeans fleeing starvation, death, and oppression had it better than non-Europeans who were starving, dying, or faced oppression.  What a silly argument to make.  My comments had nothing to do with countries that did not send immigrants to the US because they are not relevant to the topic.  It's not about racism, but a simple historical fact that certain countries were the source of immigrants to this country prior to 1965.  In your hastiness to play the race card, you seem to forget that Asians also immigrated to escape these conditions.
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Not at all

Europeans were the ones causing distress all over the world through their greed for slave labor and empire

And again ,  US of A was not a s hole free oasis at the time

Why do you forget Asian immigration was actually banned here for a long time . The ones which came before were here as indentured servants .

I don?t understand why there is so much discomfort in honesty facing the ills committed in the past . That?s saying nothing about you or me as a person in the present .

It is obvious to anyone and No one has to go to great lengths to pretend otherwise , that good immigrants for trump are white immigrants . He would rather have a white service worker from Eastern Europe for his mar a lago restaurant than a talented oil and gas engineer from Nigeria .

 
fortune11 said:
Liar Loan said:
fortune11 - It sounds like you agree with my statement that "The reason people have immigrated to the US traditionally is because they were escaping sh*thole countries."  It's hard to know for sure, as your posts seem to contradict each other.  At any rate, what you are arguing is that Europeans fleeing starvation, death, and oppression had it better than non-Europeans who were starving, dying, or faced oppression.  What a silly argument to make.  My comments had nothing to do with countries that did not send immigrants to the US because they are not relevant to the topic.  It's not about racism, but a simple historical fact that certain countries were the source of immigrants to this country prior to 1965.  In your hastiness to play the race card, you seem to forget that Asians also immigrated to escape these conditions.
Click to expand...

Not at all

Europeans were the ones causing distress all over the world through their greed for slave labor and empire

And again ,  US of A was not a s hole free oasis at the time

Why do you forget Asian immigration was actually banned here for a long time . The ones which came before were here as indentured servants .

I don?t understand why there is so much discomfort in honesty facing the ills committed in the past . That?s saying nothing about you or me as a person in the present .

It is obvious to anyone and No one has to go to great lengths to pretend otherwise , that good immigrants for trump are white immigrants . He would rather have a white service worker from Eastern Europe for his mar a lago restaurant than a talented oil and gas engineer from Nigeria .
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That's the one thing that I despise the most about the Trump administration...all the dog whistling toward white nationalist but then denying it.
 
morekaos said:
Is Iran, or Saudi Arabia? Or for that matter Mexico, Ecuador, Haiti or Uganda?
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Definitely is...reform is coming.  SA is privatizing and reforming.  Iran is slowly going there...you know what's not helping.  US' unreasonable support of Israel...especial the hardliners.

If US become an isolationist xenophobic country that attacks other countries at a whim...other countries will take the lead of China and Russia.  It is already happening in Africa. 

Global involvement is not a zero sum game.  Again...everyone else is playing ten dimensional chess while Trump is patting himself on the back for getting past the first stage of chutes and ladders.
 
China has been pumping billions and billions into Africa for the last decade.  I have clients who do significant business in Africa and Sub-Sahara.  China has pumped enormous amounts of money into roads, bridges, power and infrastructure.  Few here know about it, but good for them. We have spent trillions on Africa over the decades and what do we have to show for it?...not a lot.  If someone else wants to drop their dig there and it makes life better for them, go for it.  Hope they have better return than we got.
 
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