President Trump
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Europe was full of s** hole countries ... in the 18th - 19th centuries .... umm compared to. ?
China and India that were being plundered by the British ? Congo and Africa where Belgians and German maxim guns were hunting natives as as if they were " big game " ? South America that was a satellite to Spain and Portugal?
Do you really think living conditions in the US were that much better than in Europe that was in charge of the entire globe's economy and free to "loot at will" at the peak of its imperial power in 19th century ? Remember, US economy didn't really start to dominate until well into the 20th century.
Immigration to US was people fleeing religious persecution initially , and then those seeking new opportunities on a blank slate. Not very different from the people trying to come here today. Only difference is the color of their skin. Are there any s*** hole countries that come to mind for Trump where the majority of people are white ?
You're right. The 25% decline in Irish population during the potato famine wasn't a sign of living in a sh*thole. The slaughter of 1/3 of all German speaking people during the 30 Years War was a sign of peace and prosperity. The Italians were living in ostentatious Tuscan style villas before coming to America.
But Trump said a bad word! Oh the children!! :'(
This makes my point. This is a Presidency like no other. (I am sure we can all agree with that) In order to understand it you must not look at it in the traditional manner. I was telling people before the Republican primaries that this guy stood a fighting chance because he does not poll in the traditional manner. I found that many people supported him but were more than reluctant to admit it to anyone, let alone a pollster. This insight proved true throughout the election. It is the reason the traditional media and staunch politicoes can't figure this guy out. He will surprise them again because his support is under all the traditional radar. Until they look at this President in nontraditional ways they will be blindsided for the next 8 years.
You realize the irony in that statement ?
Any casual observer can see the smugness in trump supporters statements that tend to dismiss anything and everything as part of the grand plan and vision ? he is actuallly a genius playing nine dimensional chess
But I can see why that?s a good consolation to have when trump s poll numbers are in the tank despite a phenomenal economy and stock market.
You have to be totally ignoring on the ground reality in recent elections to be assuming he is coasting to victory again in 2020
Ten dimensional chess.
https://travel.state.gov/content/tr...s/traveladvisories/haiti-travel-advisory.html
Trump has always been the great white hope even going back to the 1980s...his garish apartment and partying lifestyle were things that middle America white people thought being rich was about. Basically he is the person that poor white people want to be if they ever won a lot of money.
I think you nailed it. I'd be willing to wager there are a lot "closet" Trump supporters out there who did vote for him and will probably vote for him again but they wouldn't be caught dead admitting it for the fear of being ridiculed by friends, family, and social justice warriors. Case in point, one of my good friends voted for Trump but lied to his wife and said that he voted for Clinton because he didn't want to hear it from her. haha
/eyerolls over and over again
Assuming you are being serious...the best of the best who come here helps people in their country by 1) sending money back or 2) returning to their home countries to help build industries.
It also improves on our standing in the world by setting a moral example that the American dream is real and that people can look to the US as a shiny beacon on the hill...but I guess Reagan is so whatever to GOP.
Seriously...10 dimension chess.
Seriously...Trump lost to Clinton by 3+ million votes. Clinton got almost as many votes as Obama did in 2012.
Only reason why Trump won is because we still have a system in which geography is more important than population.
BTW: The polling was pretty darn close...RCP average had Clinton +3.3...actual was Clinton +2.1
You're definitely out of touch with middle America if this is what you think. Midwesterners are known for their over-the-top humbleness and they resent outsized displays of wealth and ego-driven behavior. They also resent people from California that talk down to them in a condescending way.
Liar Loan said:
Europe was full of s** hole countries ... in the 18th - 19th centuries .... umm compared to. ?
China and India that were being plundered by the British ? Congo and Africa where Belgians and German maxim guns were hunting natives as as if they were " big game " ? South America that was a satellite to Spain and Portugal?
Do you really think living conditions in the US were that much better than in Europe that was in charge of the entire globe's economy and free to "loot at will" at the peak of its imperial power in 19th century ? Remember, US economy didn't really start to dominate until well into the 20th century.
Immigration to US was people fleeing religious persecution initially , and then those seeking new opportunities on a blank slate. Not very different from the people trying to come here today. Only difference is the color of their skin. Are there any s*** hole countries that come to mind for Trump where the majority of people are white ?
I didn't know Trump was into Call of Duty ... Nice !
Donald Trump Announces Successful Delivery Of Fictional Call of Duty Fighter Jet
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42651544
Donald Trump Announces Successful Delivery Of Fictional Call of Duty Fighter Jet
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42651544
Liar Loan
Well-known member
fortune11 said:
You're right. The 25% decline in Irish population during the potato famine wasn't a sign of living in a sh*thole. The slaughter of 1/3 of all German speaking people during the 30 Years War was a sign of peace and prosperity. The Italians were living in ostentatious Tuscan style villas before coming to America.
But Trump said a bad word! Oh the children!! :'(
I was going to say " straw man argument " but maybe I should say " straw children " modeling it after you
The point is entire world was a s** hole back then , the European s *** hole was relatively better than others . but you would have to actually read or know something about the world history (and not just " white " or European centric history ) to understand that .
cant believe I used this word twice in the same sentence but I guess this is what this thread and the discourse in our country (thanks to Trump) has devolved to
Charles Blow in NYT
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/11/opinion/trump-immigration-white-supremacy.html?rref=collection%2Fcolumn%2Fcharles-m-blow&action=click&contentCollection=opinion®ion=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=collection
"I guess Donald Trump was eager to counter the impression in Michael Wolff?s book that he is irascible, mentally small and possibly insane. On Tuesday, he allowed a bipartisan session in the White House about immigration to be televised for nearly an hour.
Surely, he thought that he would be able to demonstrate to the world his lucidity and acumen, his grasp of the issues and his relish for rapprochement with his political adversaries.
But instead what came through was the image of a man who had absolutely no idea what he was talking about; a man who says things that are 180 degrees from the things he has said before; a man who has no clear line of reasoning; a man who is clearly out of his depth and willing to do and say anything to please the people in front of him.
He demonstrated once again that he is a man without principle, interested only in how good he can make himself look and how much money he can make.
Yes, he has an intrinsic hostility to people who are not white, particularly when they challenge him, but as a matter of policy, the whole idea of building a wall for which Mexico would pay was just a cheap campaign stunt to, once again, please the people in front of him.
Trump is not committed to that wall on principle. He is committed only to looking good as a result of whatever comes of it. Mexico is never going to pay for it, and he knows it. He has always known it. That was just another lie. Someone must have stuck the phrases ?chain migration? and ?diversity lottery? into his brain ? easy buzzwords, you see ? and he can now rail against those ideas for applause lines.
But he is completely malleable on actual immigration policy. He doesn?t have the stamina for that much reading. Learning about immigration would require reading more words than would fit on a television news chyron.
If Donald Trump follows through with what he said during that meeting, his base will once again be betrayed. He will have proved once again that he was saying anything to keep them angry, even telling lies. He will have demonstrated once again his incompetence and unfitness.
And once again, they won?t care.
That is because Trump is man-as-message, man-as-messiah. Trump support isn?t philosophical but theological.
Trumpism is a religion founded on patriarchy and white supremacy.
It is the belief that even the least qualified man is a better choice than the most qualified woman and a belief that the most vile, anti-intellectual, scandal-plagued simpleton of a white man is sufficient to follow in the presidential footsteps of the best educated, most eloquent, most affable black man.
As President Lyndon B. Johnson said in the 1960s to a young Bill Moyers: ?If you can convince the lowest white man he?s better than the best colored man, he won?t notice you?re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he?ll empty his pockets for you.?
Trump?s supporters are saying to us, screaming to us, that although he may be the ?lowest white man,? he is still better than Barack Obama, the ?best colored man.? "
The point is entire world was a s** hole back then , the European s *** hole was relatively better than others . but you would have to actually read or know something about the world history (and not just " white " or European centric history ) to understand that .
cant believe I used this word twice in the same sentence but I guess this is what this thread and the discourse in our country (thanks to Trump) has devolved to
Charles Blow in NYT
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/11/opinion/trump-immigration-white-supremacy.html?rref=collection%2Fcolumn%2Fcharles-m-blow&action=click&contentCollection=opinion®ion=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=collection
"I guess Donald Trump was eager to counter the impression in Michael Wolff?s book that he is irascible, mentally small and possibly insane. On Tuesday, he allowed a bipartisan session in the White House about immigration to be televised for nearly an hour.
Surely, he thought that he would be able to demonstrate to the world his lucidity and acumen, his grasp of the issues and his relish for rapprochement with his political adversaries.
But instead what came through was the image of a man who had absolutely no idea what he was talking about; a man who says things that are 180 degrees from the things he has said before; a man who has no clear line of reasoning; a man who is clearly out of his depth and willing to do and say anything to please the people in front of him.
He demonstrated once again that he is a man without principle, interested only in how good he can make himself look and how much money he can make.
Yes, he has an intrinsic hostility to people who are not white, particularly when they challenge him, but as a matter of policy, the whole idea of building a wall for which Mexico would pay was just a cheap campaign stunt to, once again, please the people in front of him.
Trump is not committed to that wall on principle. He is committed only to looking good as a result of whatever comes of it. Mexico is never going to pay for it, and he knows it. He has always known it. That was just another lie. Someone must have stuck the phrases ?chain migration? and ?diversity lottery? into his brain ? easy buzzwords, you see ? and he can now rail against those ideas for applause lines.
But he is completely malleable on actual immigration policy. He doesn?t have the stamina for that much reading. Learning about immigration would require reading more words than would fit on a television news chyron.
If Donald Trump follows through with what he said during that meeting, his base will once again be betrayed. He will have proved once again that he was saying anything to keep them angry, even telling lies. He will have demonstrated once again his incompetence and unfitness.
And once again, they won?t care.
That is because Trump is man-as-message, man-as-messiah. Trump support isn?t philosophical but theological.
Trumpism is a religion founded on patriarchy and white supremacy.
It is the belief that even the least qualified man is a better choice than the most qualified woman and a belief that the most vile, anti-intellectual, scandal-plagued simpleton of a white man is sufficient to follow in the presidential footsteps of the best educated, most eloquent, most affable black man.
As President Lyndon B. Johnson said in the 1960s to a young Bill Moyers: ?If you can convince the lowest white man he?s better than the best colored man, he won?t notice you?re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he?ll empty his pockets for you.?
Trump?s supporters are saying to us, screaming to us, that although he may be the ?lowest white man,? he is still better than Barack Obama, the ?best colored man.? "
morekaos
Well-known member
Irvinecommuter said:
This makes my point. This is a Presidency like no other. (I am sure we can all agree with that) In order to understand it you must not look at it in the traditional manner. I was telling people before the Republican primaries that this guy stood a fighting chance because he does not poll in the traditional manner. I found that many people supported him but were more than reluctant to admit it to anyone, let alone a pollster. This insight proved true throughout the election. It is the reason the traditional media and staunch politicoes can't figure this guy out. He will surprise them again because his support is under all the traditional radar. Until they look at this President in nontraditional ways they will be blindsided for the next 8 years.
Kings said:
You realize the irony in that statement ?
Any casual observer can see the smugness in trump supporters statements that tend to dismiss anything and everything as part of the grand plan and vision ? he is actuallly a genius playing nine dimensional chess
But I can see why that?s a good consolation to have when trump s poll numbers are in the tank despite a phenomenal economy and stock market.
You have to be totally ignoring on the ground reality in recent elections to be assuming he is coasting to victory again in 2020
fortune11 said:
Ten dimensional chess.
https://travel.state.gov/content/tr...s/traveladvisories/haiti-travel-advisory.html
Liar Loan
Well-known member
fortune11 - It sounds like you agree with my statement that "The reason people have immigrated to the US traditionally is because they were escaping sh*thole countries." It's hard to know for sure, as your posts seem to contradict each other. At any rate, what you are arguing is that Europeans fleeing starvation, death, and oppression had it better than non-Europeans who were starving, dying, or faced oppression. What a silly argument to make. My comments had nothing to do with countries that did not send immigrants to the US because they are not relevant to the topic. It's not about racism, but a simple historical fact that certain countries were the source of immigrants to this country prior to 1965. In your hastiness to play the race card, you seem to forget that Asians also immigrated to escape these conditions.
Irvinecommuter
New member
Irvinecommuter
New member
fortune11 said:To his crowd ?- ? you will win so much ... excuse me .. you will play chess so much your head will start spinning .. you will be begging ... mr trump please stop .... we can?t take all this chess .. our MAGA heads are hurting ?
Trump has always been the great white hope even going back to the 1980s...his garish apartment and partying lifestyle were things that middle America white people thought being rich was about. Basically he is the person that poor white people want to be if they ever won a lot of money.
usctrojancpa
Well-known member
morekaos said:
I think you nailed it. I'd be willing to wager there are a lot "closet" Trump supporters out there who did vote for him and will probably vote for him again but they wouldn't be caught dead admitting it for the fear of being ridiculed by friends, family, and social justice warriors. Case in point, one of my good friends voted for Trump but lied to his wife and said that he voted for Clinton because he didn't want to hear it from her. haha
morekaos
Well-known member
If all these countries are sending us "their best and brightest" who are trying to escape the **itholes they live for whatever reason, are we not doing that country a disservice by taking their very "best and brightest" who should fight to make their native countries better? Are we not selfishly poaching the very people needed to make their home countries a better place to live?
Irvinecommuter
New member
morekaos said:
/eyerolls over and over again
Assuming you are being serious...the best of the best who come here helps people in their country by 1) sending money back or 2) returning to their home countries to help build industries.
It also improves on our standing in the world by setting a moral example that the American dream is real and that people can look to the US as a shiny beacon on the hill...but I guess Reagan is so whatever to GOP.
Seriously...10 dimension chess.
Irvinecommuter
New member
USCTrojanCPA said:
Seriously...Trump lost to Clinton by 3+ million votes. Clinton got almost as many votes as Obama did in 2012.
Only reason why Trump won is because we still have a system in which geography is more important than population.
BTW: The polling was pretty darn close...RCP average had Clinton +3.3...actual was Clinton +2.1
Liar Loan
Well-known member
Irvinecommuter said:fortune11 said:To his crowd ?- ? you will win so much ... excuse me .. you will play chess so much your head will start spinning .. you will be begging ... mr trump please stop .... we can?t take all this chess .. our MAGA heads are hurting ?
Trump has always been the great white hope even going back to the 1980s...his garish apartment and partying lifestyle were things that middle America white people thought being rich was about. Basically he is the person that poor white people want to be if they ever won a lot of money.
You're definitely out of touch with middle America if this is what you think. Midwesterners are known for their over-the-top humbleness and they resent outsized displays of wealth and ego-driven behavior. They also resent people from California that talk down to them in a condescending way.