Prepare to get the shaft from the State of California

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No_Vas, something must be done. Schools, health care and prison take virtually all the budget.



I again will point you to the tale of two school districts.



Irvine Unified.



and



Los Angeles Unified.



One receives far greater compensation per student than the other. It is not the high performing school district.





In the end, we can massively raise taxes or we can restructure our government and expectations for performance and compensation of state workers and for rendering of services. However, in view of LAUSD or perhaps Santa Ana, it's not exactly clear how much less, on average, they can do. The sad part is there are some that truely care, truely try and are being dragged down by a corrupt system.



The results speak for themselves. Look at LAUSD graduation rate.
 
[quote author="No_Such_Reality" date=1234607925]No_Vas, something must be done. Schools, health care and prison take virtually all the budget.



I again will point you to the tale of two school districts.



Irvine Unified.



and



Los Angeles Unified.



One receives far greater compensation per student than the other. It is not the high performing school district.





In the end, we can massively raise taxes or we can restructure our government and expectations for performance and compensation of state workers and for rendering of services. However, in view of LAUSD or perhaps Santa Ana, it's not exactly clear how much less, on average, they can do. The sad part is there are some that truely care, truely try and are being dragged down by a corrupt system.



The results speak for themselves. Look at LAUSD graduation rate.</blockquote>


We beat this one to death already:



<a href="http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/forums/viewthread/2765/P0/">http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/forums/viewthread/2765/P0/</a>



IMO LAUSD vs IUSD is a bad example. Virtually everything that is wrong with LAUSD is right with IUSD and vice versa.



Too big to manage? LAUSD has it.

Lots of ESL kids? LAUSD has it.

Lots of really poor neighborhoods? LAUSD has it.

Lots of kids who's parent's aren't as "comitted" as you'd like? LAUSD has it.

Aging facilities that aren't up to snuff? LAUSD has it.



LAUSD serves Compton, Inglewood, and Boyle Heights. What's the equivlent of that in Irvine - that shithole Villages of Columbus? Nope, Tustin won the short straw on that one.



tmare said it best in the above cited thread:



[quote author="tmare" date=1218164069]I know that you could switch the teachers in Irvine with those working in the inner city of LA and they wouldn't have any more success than the teachers who are there now. Just ask those teachers and they will confirm this.</blockquote>


Your argument is specious because it assumes that everything in LAUSD is the same as everything else in IUSD. It isn't the same. And no amount of funding will ever make it the same. But that doesn't mean we should quit trying. The kids in LAUSD deserve the same oppourtunity as the kids in IUSD and we have an obligation to not penalize them for being born poor.
 
I believe one thing LA and IU teachers have in common is a pension plan. That is, if they retire at 55, they are guaranteed a healthy percentage of their salary every year until they die.



I have yet to see a private sector job offer a guaranteed percentage of one's salary upon retirement. Instead, I have a 401K plan and I have to educate myself on the latest Wall St. shenanigans in order to navigate through market turbulence to ensure I have something when I retire. Meanwhile, government workers with pensions could care less about what is happening in the marketplace because their retirement is (currently) guaranteed by the government. Dow drops 50%? BFD!



Oh, I almost forgot, I get Social Security. Government workers don't pay this, but I do. And every year I get a statement saying that between 70 to 80% of what I am entitled to ain't gonna be there by the time I can collect it. Ridiculous!



Pensions need to go the way of the buggy whip. Perhaps a California BK will help in that regard.



Now, back to your regularly scheduled program!
 
[quote author="no_vaseline" date=1234611554]Your argument is specious because it assumes that everything in LAUSD is the same as everything else in IUSD. It isn't the same. And no amount of funding will ever make it the same. But that doesn't mean we should quit trying. The kids in LAUSD deserve the same oppourtunity as the kids in IUSD and we have an obligation to not penalize them for being born poor.</blockquote>
Yet, we don't have an obligation to reward them for being born poor either. Equal opportunity doesn't mean we punish the kids in the nicer neighborhoods any more than it means we guarantee the best of everything to the kids in the worst neighborhoods. In an ideal world, they would recieve equal attention, supplies, class sizes, etc. But this isn't an ideal world, and the long tradition of trying to fill the gap between the rich and the poor with tax dollars has proven ineffective and unsustainable. Instead, maybe we should be looking at a minimum sustainable level of service in combination with a revamp of the power structure, and let the parents pay directly for those things they think make a school "better".
 
Oscar,



I don't know if you can make up for it with any ammount of budget increases. Proof?



<img src="http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/img/education_spending.jpg" alt="" />



Would you move from Idaho to DC for the schools?



Lucky for me, I don't have that problem.



<img src="http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w188/CraigMBA/Picture001.jpg" alt="" />
 
[quote author="wendyinoc" date=1234613751]Why can't we get more money from the Casinos? Nevada has a 0 tax rate.</blockquote>
I believe the state already taxes the indian casinos, but that's not to say they can't up the tax on their gaming revenues. It's true that Nevada has no income tax because of the casinos, but Nevada is having their own little budget deficit issues to the tune of $800MM (not a big number compared to California but Nevada only has 1/15th...2.5MM vs. 36MM). However, Nevada was heavily subsidizing their in-state college students (you'd pay like $500 for tuition for UNLV or Reno per semester if you went to high school in Nevada all 4 years) and that is going to be the first things to get cut along with a pay increase freeze for all state/county/city employees.
 
[quote author="Daedalus" date=1234444550]<a href="http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2009/02/11/Report_California_budget_deal_struck/UPI-50351234386883/">One source.</a>



Unfortunately I can't do too much about the income tax, but I'll make it a strong goal to not spend more on gas, registration or sales tax in '09. Mercury Ins just sent me a bill with a ~10% increase, so I'm making changes that will reduce that bill by 64%. And thank goodness for Amazon. I get my toothpaste and shampoo from them, and I bet I can find a lot of other things they're willing to sell me (with free shipping).</blockquote>




Daedalus, you are supposed to self disclose the things you purchase without CA sales tax, and pay CA use tax in your income tax return. The tax rate is the same.
 
[quote author="Major Schadenfreude" date=1234613891]I believe one thing LA and IU teachers have in common is a pension plan. That is, if they retire at 55, they are guaranteed a healthy percentage of their salary every year until they die.



I have yet to see a private sector job offer a guaranteed percentage of one's salary upon retirement. Instead, I have a 401K plan and I have to educate myself on the latest Wall St. shenanigans in order to navigate through market turbulence to ensure I have something when I retire. Meanwhile, government workers with pensions could care less about what is happening in the marketplace because their retirement is (currently) guaranteed by the government. Dow drops 50%? BFD!



Oh, I almost forgot, I get Social Security. Government workers don't pay this, but I do. And every year I get a statement saying that between 70 to 80% of what I am entitled to ain't gonna be there by the time I can collect it. Ridiculous!



Pensions need to go the way of the buggy whip. Perhaps a California BK will help in that regard.



Now, back to your regularly scheduled program!</blockquote>




There is a BIG misconception out there regarding teacher's pensions versus others (police, firemen, other public officials). I seem to need to repeat this often and it is never heard: OUR PENSIONS ARE NOT THE SAME, NEVER HAVE BEEN AND ARE NOT EVEN CLOSE. I would need to teach until I'm 70 (and I've been teaching since I was 21 years old) to come close (and not even the same) as any of the above referenced groups. Please, if you are going to reference CA pensions in your posts, eliminate teachers from your list.
 
[quote author="no_vaseline" date=1234611554][quote author="No_Such_Reality" date=1234607925]No_Vas, something must be done. Schools, health care and prison take virtually all the budget.



I again will point you to the tale of two school districts.



Irvine Unified.



and



Los Angeles Unified.



One receives far greater compensation per student than the other. It is not the high performing school district.





In the end, we can massively raise taxes or we can restructure our government and expectations for performance and compensation of state workers and for rendering of services. However, in view of LAUSD or perhaps Santa Ana, it's not exactly clear how much less, on average, they can do. The sad part is there are some that truely care, truely try and are being dragged down by a corrupt system.



The results speak for themselves. Look at LAUSD graduation rate.</blockquote>


We beat this one to death already:



<a href="http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/forums/viewthread/2765/P0/">http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/forums/viewthread/2765/P0/</a>



IMO LAUSD vs IUSD is a bad example. Virtually everything that is wrong with LAUSD is right with IUSD and vice versa.



Too big to manage? LAUSD has it.

Lots of ESL kids? LAUSD has it.

Lots of really poor neighborhoods? LAUSD has it.

Lots of kids who's parent's aren't as "comitted" as you'd like? LAUSD has it.

Aging facilities that aren't up to snuff? LAUSD has it.



LAUSD serves Compton, Inglewood, and Boyle Heights. What's the equivlent of that in Irvine - that shithole Villages of Columbus? Nope, Tustin won the short straw on that one.



tmare said it best in the above cited thread:



[quote author="tmare" date=1218164069]I know that you could switch the teachers in Irvine with those working in the inner city of LA and they wouldn't have any more success than the teachers who are there now. Just ask those teachers and they will confirm this.</blockquote>


Your argument is specious because it assumes that everything in LAUSD is the same as everything else in IUSD. It isn't the same. And no amount of funding will ever make it the same. But that doesn't mean we should quit trying. The kids in LAUSD deserve the same oppourtunity as the kids in IUSD and we have an obligation to not penalize them for being born poor.</blockquote>


In that same prior thread, I believe the conclusion was no amount of money would correct it.



Perhaps a simple question:



Does the State of California get good value for the money it is spending?
 
Perhaps a simple question:



Does the State of California get good value for the money it is spending?</blockquote>




No.
 
[quote author="tmare" date=1234623191]

There is a BIG misconception out there regarding teacher's pensions versus others (police, firemen, other public officials). I seem to need to repeat this often and it is never heard: OUR PENSIONS ARE NOT THE SAME, NEVER HAVE BEEN AND ARE NOT EVEN CLOSE. I would need to teach until I'm 70 (and I've been teaching since I was 21 years old) to come close (and not even the same) as any of the above referenced groups. Please, if you are going to reference CA pensions in your posts, eliminate teachers from your list.</blockquote>


In terms of recent history, direct state contributions to Cal-STRS have not been very high. The pension is primarily funded by investment returns and teacher/district contribs and those percentages are close to what would be paid into social security by employees and employers in a private sector equivalent.



Teachers get more bang for their buck in terms of contributing to Cal-STRS vs. social security. Around 2% more on every dollar but 2-2.5X the benefit amount at retirement...



Ultimately, a teacher would likely be better off foregoing the pension and just sinking that 8% into a 401k. They'd be able to draw the same benefit at retirement and have equity left to pass along to their heirs afterwards.
 
[quote author="purpletulip" date=1234622149][quote author="Daedalus" date=1234444550]<a href="http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2009/02/11/Report_California_budget_deal_struck/UPI-50351234386883/">One source.</a>



Unfortunately I can't do too much about the income tax, but I'll make it a strong goal to not spend more on gas, registration or sales tax in '09. Mercury Ins just sent me a bill with a ~10% increase, so I'm making changes that will reduce that bill by 64%. And thank goodness for Amazon. I get my toothpaste and shampoo from them, and I bet I can find a lot of other things they're willing to sell me (with free shipping).</blockquote>




Daedalus, you are supposed to self disclose the things you purchase without CA sales tax, and pay CA use tax in your income tax return. The tax rate is the same.</blockquote>
Does your mommy let you post on the internet that late any day of the week, or just when it's not a school night?
 
[quote author="tmare" date=1234624418]<blockquote>Perhaps a simple question:



Does the State of California get good value for the money it is spending?</blockquote>




No.</blockquote>


Then the 2nd question is, do we not get good value because we don't spend enough?
 
[quote author="No_Such_Reality" date=1234661112][quote author="tmare" date=1234624418]<blockquote>Perhaps a simple question:



Does the State of California get good value for the money it is spending?</blockquote>




No.</blockquote>


Then the 2nd question is, do we not get good value because we don't spend enough?</blockquote>


I can't completely answer that, but I do know that we get spending in all of the wrong areas in education. Someone needs to blow up the ten pound book called the California Education Code. The problem is we are continually adding to this document and never taking anything away. What we are left with is essentially the same thing the entire state is left with: a huge inefficient bureaucracy. Once you start asking questions about all of the things that don't make sense, you find yourself in a maze of "can't do this because of thats". I think Oscar said that we need to start from scratch and at this point I think I'd have to agree.
 
[quote author="No_Such_Reality" date=1234623269][quote author="no_vaseline" date=1234611554][quote author="No_Such_Reality" date=1234607925]No_Vas, something must be done. Schools, health care and prison take virtually all the budget.



LAUSD serves Compton, Inglewood, and Boyle Heights. What's the equivlent of that in Irvine - that shithole Villages of Columbus? Nope, Tustin won the short straw on that one.



Does the State of California get good value for the money it is spending?</blockquote>


"Shithole Villages of Columbus"? No_Vas, since when are brand new homes located in Central Orange County considered shitty? Have you been to Compton, North Long Beach, South Central, or even Santa Ana? Can you even afford a 3,000 s.f. home in the Villages of Columbus? I'm pretty sure you have reasons to prefer Irvine over Tustin, but cut back on the snobby remarks. Unless you really do live in some "bubble", I don't think you have any idea what you are saying.
 
[quote author="waiting2buylater" date=1234514335][quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1234442794]So it looks like the State Legislator will pass the following measures for the State's budget shortfall:



1. Sales Tax increase of 1%

2. State Income tax income across every tax bracket

3. Doubling of car registration fees

4. Increase in gas tax



If I can land a job in Vegas, I'm out of here for a while.</blockquote>


We are #1.......Highest income tax rate in the nation. Highest state sales tax in the nation. Highest gasoline tax in the nation. One of the highest business taxes in the nation. This was before the latest hike.



CA as one of the highest taxed states in the nation still has a $40 Billion Deficit. Incredible!!!</blockquote>


I don't know much about California taxes and its deficit, but how much of this problem is because illegal immigrants and FCBs are not paying their share of the Cali taxes allowing the honest California residents to be shafted with their unpaid share? After all, California has the highest number of illegal immigrants than any other state right? I'm sure that there a lot of mismanagement of funds, but at the same time a lot of dishonest people working around the system to evading Cali's high taxes.I found BV's statement to be interesting when he said that his high taxes is also paying for the share of 3.2 illegal immigrants who are not adding any value to the system.
 
[quote author="PANDA" date=1234667633][quote author="waiting2buylater" date=1234514335][quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1234442794]So it looks like the State Legislator will pass the following measures for the State's budget shortfall:



1. Sales Tax increase of 1%

2. State Income tax income across every tax bracket

3. Doubling of car registration fees

4. Increase in gas tax



If I can land a job in Vegas, I'm out of here for a while.</blockquote>


We are #1.......Highest income tax rate in the nation. Highest state sales tax in the nation. Highest gasoline tax in the nation. One of the highest business taxes in the nation. This was before the latest hike.



CA as one of the highest taxed states in the nation still has a $40 Billion Deficit. Incredible!!!</blockquote>


I don't know much about California taxes and its deficit, but how much of this problem is allow attributed to illegal immigrants not paying their share of taxes? After all, California has the highest number of illegal immigrants than any other state right? I found BV's statement to be interesting when he said that his high taxes are also paying for the share of 3.2 illegal immigrants who are not adding any value to the system.</blockquote>




Panda, this is a huge can of worms and "not adding any value to the system" is definitely debatable. Our state would be hard pressed to run at all without many of these people. It is also a fallacy to believe that these people don't pay taxes. Many of them own homes and pay taxes regularly (both income and sales tax) but receive no benefits from it (no home interest deduction and no Social Security). Unfortunately, many of these people are using other people's Social Security numbers but ARE paying taxes. It's a pretty mixed up mess.
 
[quote author="tmare" date=1234667921][quote author="PANDA" date=1234667633][quote author="waiting2buylater" date=1234514335][quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1234442794]So it looks like the State Legislator will pass the following measures for the State's budget shortfall:



1. Sales Tax increase of 1%

2. State Income tax income across every tax bracket

3. Doubling of car registration fees

4. Increase in gas tax



If I can land a job in Vegas, I'm out of here for a while.</blockquote>


We are #1.......Highest income tax rate in the nation. Highest state sales tax in the nation. Highest gasoline tax in the nation. One of the highest business taxes in the nation. This was before the latest hike.



CA as one of the highest taxed states in the nation still has a $40 Billion Deficit. Incredible!!!</blockquote>


I don't know much about California taxes and its deficit, but how much of this problem is allow attributed to illegal immigrants not paying their share of taxes? After all, California has the highest number of illegal immigrants than any other state right? I found BV's statement to be interesting when he said that his high taxes are also paying for the share of 3.2 illegal immigrants who are not adding any value to the system.</blockquote>




Panda, this is a huge can of worms and "not adding any value to the system" is definitely debatable. Our state would be hard pressed to run at all without many of these people. It is also a fallacy to believe that these people don't pay taxes. Many of them own homes and pay taxes regularly (both income and sales tax) but receive no benefits from it (no home interest deduction and no Social Security). Unfortunately, many of these people are using other people's Social Security numbers but ARE paying taxes. It's a pretty mixed up mess.</blockquote>


Tmare,

Yes, it does seem very messy. Thanks for your post as I really don't know much about this topic, but find it very interesting.
 
[quote author="hs_teacher" date=1234665543]"Shithole Villages of Columbus"? No_Vas, since when are brand new homes located in Central Orange County considered shitty? Have you been to Compton, North Long Beach, South Central, or even Santa Ana? Can you even afford a 3,000 s.f. home in the Villages of Columbus? I'm pretty sure you have reasons to prefer Irvine over Tustin, but cut back on the snobby remarks. Unless you really do live in some "bubble", I don't think you have any idea what you are saying.</blockquote>


I wouldn't be caught dead buying a home in Irvine or that built on a superfund toxic waste site dump Villages of Columbus.



Don't take this the wrong way, but I really feel bad for your students who have a functional moron for an instructor. I think we've identified the problem with the educational system. It's you.
 
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