Port/Yacht Street Fire

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[quote author="blackacre-seeker" date=1224043020]Did anybody even read this post? That should alleviate your concerns, here it is again.

<blockquote>I guess everybody missed my point: I?m not cheering for fires, that should not happen to anyone. Yet, I?m not going to feel sorry for millionaires losing one of their mansions. As to they posters who provided a background on people whose homes suffered some fire damage, my thoughts are with them. </blockquote>
And just one more time: if you have one home and it burns down, I feel sorry for you 100%. If you have a few homes, and one burns down, I feel 1/5 times less sorry (or whatever the number of homes you have). Also, how you got the money to buy this nice home would also make a difference to me. I just don't get why is this so difficult to understand.

Just one real life example to illustrate my point, not to belabor it: if Countrywide's CEO's mansion burns down, are you going to feel sorry for him? I won't.</blockquote>


Your original point was stupid and your subsequent attempts to salvage your original stupid point only prove how stupid your first point was. Either you cheer when "rich" people lose their homes, or you don't. Without knowing a thing about the area you immediately assumed everyone there was rich and have multiple homes. Your comparison to Angelo Mozillo is ridicilous and, quite frankly, completely irrelevant. You should just admit that you were and are wrong. And by the way, why would you ever be happy, or even not sorry, if someone, anyone's, house burned down? I knew plenty of people who lived in Emerald Bay in the early 90s who lost their houses. Financially the were ok, but their lives were turned upside down and they lost a lot - especially irreplaceable things. Perhaps while delighting in your gleeful ignorance you neglected to consider what happens to the family that loses everything - the invaluable things like photographs, heirlooms or God forbid a family member or beloved pet.



I lived in the port streets for many years with my mother, a single woman working as a secretary. We rented there. I guess you didn't consider that maybe there are some people renting in that area to, as my mother did, take advantage of the safe streets and great schools? What about them?



I don't think anyone missed your point as you believe. Your point was that you're a jealous, judgmental, ignorant idiot, and I think everyone has been able to understand that just fine.
 
I gotta back up blackacre here a little; and I can't believe I'm saying this, but it?s hard to feel sorry for multi-millionaires. Crap happens to everybody; an unfortunate event is an unfortunate event. Most people in this class have adequate insurance, protection and I'm sure most of their assets are safely hidden away. They can recover, unlike some other people around the world who subside on less than $1/day. I know there is a short supply of sympathy these days; everyone is hurting. We are seeing a complete drop in non-profit giving and I'm truly afraid what is going to happen to high risk countries like Africa if this economic down turn persists. I don't delight in misery, but I'm not going to lose any sleep. I can almost bet that most people here, in the OC, Irvine don?t even know what true grinding poverty is, that effects 80% of the world population.
 
What bugged me the most is that blackacre-seeker seems to equally as judgmental regarding <a href="http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/forums/viewthread/3278/">low income neighborhoods</a>
 
Roundcorners, now you're generalizing. Believe it or not there are plenty of families living in Orange County, and even Irvine, come from poverty-stricken regions of the world.



As for Africa, sometimes I wonder if they would be better off without this "aid". Whatever aid has been given doesn't seem to have helped a whole lot.
 
[quote author="roundcorners" date=1224048180]I gotta back up blackacre here a little; and I can't believe I'm saying this, but it?s hard to feel sorry for multi-millionaires. Crap happens to everybody; an unfortunate event is an unfortunate event. Most people in this class have adequate insurance, protection and I'm sure most of their assets are safely hidden away. They can recover, unlike some other people around the world who subside on less than $1/day. I know there is a short supply of sympathy these days; everyone is hurting. We are seeing a complete drop in non-profit giving and I'm truly afraid what is going to happen to high risk countries like Africa if this economic down turn persists. I don't delight in misery, but I'm not going to lose any sleep. I can almost bet that most people here, in the OC, Irvine don?t even know what true grinding poverty is, that effects 80% of the world population.</blockquote>


Once again...A fair amount of those residents are NOT multi-millionaires. Enough with the UNinformed generalizations! Your opinion doesn't mean much anyway--considering yesterday you had never even heard of the port streets?! Your replies really don't matter if you have never even heard of the neighborhood this thread is about.
 
[quote author="roundcorners" date=1224048180]I gotta back up blackacre here a little; and I can't believe I'm saying this, but it?s hard to feel sorry for multi-millionaires. Crap happens to everybody; an unfortunate event is an unfortunate event. Most people in this class have adequate insurance, protection and I'm sure most of their assets are safely hidden away. They can recover, unlike some other people around the world who subside on less than $1/day. I know there is a short supply of sympathy these days; everyone is hurting. We are seeing a complete drop in non-profit giving and I'm truly afraid what is going to happen to high risk countries like Africa if this economic down turn persists. I don't delight in misery, but I'm not going to lose any sleep. I can almost bet that most people here, in the OC, Irvine don?t even know what true grinding poverty is, that effects 80% of the world population.</blockquote>


This thread is not about poverty in Africa. Start a new thread if that's what you would like to discuss.



It's about a home being burnt. It's about memories, dreams, hardwork, family heirlooms, maybe even pets or family members being lost. Rich or poor--it's a tragedy. And your first thought--roundcorners--was "yippee" It's actually quite sickening. Stop focusing on Africa and take a look at yourself.
 
Some of the attitudes here are why I left SoCal after many years there. To be joyful over any person's loss is a symptom of jealouscy and some amount of insucureity.



One of my rentals had a major water leak last week. My tenant has had to relocate and it will cause me a certain amount of economic damage. Yes I do own several homes which I aquired over a period of 20+ years and paid off. They allow my retirement without sucking from a state or federal tax supported retirement system.



I don't want to get into personel finances but I worked hard for many years after completing my military service and putting myself through college. I would probably fall into a catagory that you envy but I have no guilt as I "earned it the hard way"



My words to those who are jealous of others sucess is to quit whinning and use the opportunities offered to you in America and become whatever you feel is"successful"



I suppose some here would think that me or my tenant derserve the bad luck. Maybe there is Karma and you will get your wishes returned to you.



Enjoy
 
blackacre-seeker:



[quote author="blackacre-seeker" date=1224032240]No need to get all worked up about this. I'm also not going to weep for some rich folks who have millions and often own several houses. It is unfortunate to have it happen to anyone nothwithstanding their financial situation, but there is a world of difference if a family loses their only large asset to fire, let's say a 400K condo, and a millionaire losing one of his 5M mansions. The millionaire can go stay at the Ritz, and the family without that kind of money is going to seek charity from relatives and stangers.

It is absurd to suggest that I should be all upset about threatened or actual fire damage to multimillion-dollar homes. Where did they get that kind of money anyway, flipping houses during the bubble? Underwriting bad mortgages? Cheating investors out of their money while collecting millions in bonuses?</blockquote>


While not a multi-millionaire, I own more than one piece of real estate, which I guess makes me one of your hated. But I speak from experience. After building our dream home and moving in during the first week of December, 2004, painters left oily rags in our unventilated garage six weeks later. The resulting fire took out our garage, and most of the stuff we had not yet found places for in our new home. Stuff like the Christmas ornaments our kids had made throughout their school years. Stuff like love letters between my wife and I, written nearly 30 years earlier. I quickly replaced my tools and my ping pong table....but the stuff the insurance company valued at zero was the biggest loss. Living in a hotel for six weeks during reconstruction was a lot of fun, too, and did wonders for our kids? school and social experience at that time.



I hope I never end up to be like you.
 
This is so high school: a bunch of bullies trying to get someone who does not conform to conform...

I'm not really going to come down to your level and respond with the same remarks as to your intelligence as this newbie TR4 and other did here re myself, I'm above this. By the way, TR4, anybody who says what you said here does have issues that need to be addressed by a professional, the sooner the better.

It is all about lack of education and ability to have an intelligent conversation, so just go back to school and learn how to behave yourself, you are not in a barn.

I have my own opinion about this issue, and I'm not going to apologize for having one. Oh, and by the way, I have opinions about many other issues which I voiced on this blog over time, which I am also not going to apologize about.

So go on, if putting someone down and making personal attacks makes you feel better about yourself (which is evidenced by constant back-and-forth pats on the back between the same 3 or 4 people, just check out the thank-yous in this thread), help yourself, I could not care less about what you think about me.

However, in the interest of filtering the garbage on this forum, I think I'm going to to put you on ignore (after I enjoy reading more of your vicious remarks and whining about what a bad person I'm and how good and noble and smart you all are, of course).
 
blackacre, you've never been contentious on the forums before so i'm not going to make personal attacks. i've never gotten the impression you're anything but a decent human being so i agree that's a bit far-fetched for people to make you out as some sort of monster.



although i DO think you're being a bit stubborn and trying to play the victim. its not that anyone is trying to change your opinion. i think we all understand how people might not feel a lot of sympathy if angelo mozillo's house burned down, and yet some people might find harboring such feelings in poor taste no matter who or what he's done. but i don't think what set people off is the great philosophical debate about society's ill-well vs forgiveness toward bad people.



at least for me, i'm still baffled at HOW you came to apply your particular opinion to this particular this situation and neighborhood... and why you conveniently ignored half a dozen posts by people who tried explaining the character of the neighborhood.



if it turns out that people in the neighborhood are not:



1) millionaires only losing one of multiple million dollar mansions

2) able to afford to waiting out a potential disaster at the ritz carlton

3) people who made their fortunes by flipping houses, underwriting bad mortgages, and cheating investors



... would you still not feel remorse for their situation?
 
Isn't that what I've been saying? Here is a relevant quote from one of my previous posts: "As to they posters who provided a background on people whose homes suffered some fire damage, my thoughts are with them."

It appears that nobody picked it up: if the situation is as the previous posters described, which I don't see much reason to doubt, I do feel sorry for them.

To clarify my point further, although I don't know why I'm even trying: if somebody is successful enough to be able to afford multi-million dollar home, I'm not jealous of them. If that home burns down during a fire, whether I would feel sorry for that person would depend on the source of income for buying such property. If it is money earned, not stolen from other people, it would not matter whether or not this person is rich, I'd still feel sorry for him/her. If not, I would not "cheer," but I wouldn't feel sorry either.



And to all people who tried to chastise me for saying that, I have a question for you. If I say what I said on this forum, pretty much voicing my opinion on a certain issue, you feel deeply offended and disturbed by that. Yet, you have no problem launching personal attacks on me with various epithets without even understanding the nature of what I said because you are "offended" by that. I just think that personal attacks that you engaged in here are more offensive than my opinions on this issue. Nonetheless, you feel OK with that, since it is coming from you?

Anyway, if I learned one thing from my debate club it was that people resort to personal attacks when they run out of legitimate arguments, which means I just won :) Oops, that probably was a "callous" thing to say.
 
[quote author="Pat Veling" date=1224059619]While not a multi-millionaire, I own more than one piece of real estate, which I guess makes me one of your hated. But I speak from experience. After building our dream home and moving in during the first week of December, 2004, painters left oily rags in our unventilated garage six weeks later. The resulting fire took out our garage, and most of the stuff we had not yet found places for in our new home. Stuff like the Christmas ornaments our kids had made throughout their school years. Stuff like love letters between my wife and I, written nearly 30 years earlier. I quickly replaced my tools and my ping pong table....but the stuff the insurance company valued at zero was the biggest loss. Living in a hotel for six weeks during reconstruction was a lot of fun, too, and did wonders for our kids? school and social experience at that time.



I hope I never end up to be like you.</blockquote>


no_vas could be right...



http://emedia.citizensvoice.com/Portals/17/blogs/sign.jpg



Pat, I am sorry to hear that you and your family had to go through that. I can't imagine what that must have been like, and hopefully I will never have to. It's good see a more personal post from you, and not one of the bear bashing kind of posts you have had in the past. It reminds me of last year when Lansner's home was threatened by the fires. I remember a comment by Rants, that made just about everyone cringe. It was a new low, and just when the bears were beginning to gain some respect too. Anyway, glad you and your family came out unscathed. While I am sure you lost a lot of great memories and irreplaceable things, at least your family was safe.



It also looks like you and I do have something in common, we are both owners of more than one piece of real estate. I just hope that isn't grounds for being hated.
 
gotcha... so its ok to generalize as long as you're sympathetic in specific situations that are pointed out?



i.e. by your rationale: when a bomb blows up a bunch of people attending services at a mosque, its ok to not feel bad because they're all terrorists. if someone mentions a person they knew who was killed but was by no means a terrorist, our hearts should go out to that person and their family.... but the rest we can still assume are terrorists?



i totally understand you don't feel sympathetic toward unscrupulous people, just curious how you came to the assumption. more specifically, why should we assume an large number of upper class homes is automatically filled former house-flipping mortgage lenders, unless proven otherwise case by case.
 
[quote author="acpme" date=1224074986]blackacre, you've never been contentious on the forums before so i'm not going to make personal attacks. i've never gotten the impression you're anything but a decent human being so i agree that's a bit far-fetched for people to make you out as some sort of monster.



although i DO think you're being a bit stubborn and trying to play the victim. its not that anyone is trying to change your opinion. i think we all understand how people might not feel a lot of sympathy if angelo mozillo's house burned down, and yet some people might find harboring such feelings in poor taste no matter who or what he's done. but i don't think what set people off is the great philosophical debate about society's ill-well vs forgiveness toward bad people.



at least for me, i'm still baffled at HOW you came to apply your particular opinion to this particular this situation and neighborhood... and why you conveniently ignored half a dozen posts by people who tried explaining the character of the neighborhood.



if it turns out that people in the neighborhood are not:



1) millionaires only losing one of multiple million dollar mansions

2) able to afford to waiting out a potential disaster at the ritz carlton

3) people who made their fortunes by flipping houses, underwriting bad mortgages, and cheating investors



... would you still not feel remorse for their situation?</blockquote>


I think I may regret stepping in, but . . .



There were ways to read both BA's and round corners' original posts that expressed a POV that, while poorly worded, were not evil.



For example, when RC said that he/she "loved" the comments at the OCR, I read the "loved" as sarcastic, and not as agreement. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't recall RC being the "bring on the class warfare" type.



Nor do I recall BA as a bomb-thrower. As for BA's original post, I took it as a quickly drafted point that while well off people do suffer from a fire, so long as the damage extends only to property their economic cushion allows them to be, what I will call, "up to their knees" in suffering. It is sad, inconvenient, and something that no one wants to go through. Contrasting that to someone of small economic means who under the same circumstances would be "up to their shoulders" in suffering because they may not have the money to move into a hotel, go buy some new clothes, and afford to eat out while their home or apartment is being reconstructed. I may be wrong, but I read BA's original post as "well, it could be worse, as these are people of means."



May I suggest that unless a person has a history of being obnoxious that we all ask for clarification of a shocking statement before casting aspersions? Seek first to understand, and all.
 
Your analogy mischaracterizes my argument, and as such is irrelevant. If you want to know how I or other people feel about terrorists and ways of dealing with them, you can start a thread on that. Didn't we invade Iraq on a very generalized and later proven to be false assumption?

In any case, I'm not going to change my opinion no matter how hard anybody tries to kick it out of me, so I'll let you think whatever you think and I'll think whatever I feel like thinking, hope it is not too confusing...
 
[quote author="blackacre-seeker" date=1224071941]This is so high school: a bunch of bullies trying to get someone who does not conform to conform...

I'm not really going to come down to your level and respond with the same remarks as to your intelligence as this newbie TR4 and other did here re myself, I'm above this. By the way, TR4, anybody who says what you said here does have issues that need to be addressed by a professional, the sooner the better.

It is all about lack of education and ability to have an intelligent conversation, so just go back to school and learn how to behave yourself, you are not in a barn.

</blockquote>


Dear Blackacre,



You're right, I apologize. You shouldn't bow to the masses and "come down to our level". You should hold steadfast to your high level or morality and intellect. A level where you hope for and celebrate the misfortune of others. A level where your jealousy and envy for others leads you to eagerly publicize your celebration of one's misfortunate in the hopes of persuading others, like me, who inhabit the "lower levels" of society, to join you. Such high levels must only be acquired through superior education. I guess my top 20 university and law school were not enough to give me such a lofty perspective on life. damn.



So I capitulate to your sound logic and strong argument. I would like to apologize for being a barn dwelling bottom feeder - but, you see, I can't help it. I can't help not being jealous of those who, like others on this post, have worked hard, saved and earned a nice home in a nice area. I am incapable of being envious of the law firm partner, businessperson or doctor who toiled for years in school, accumulated mountains of debt, worked 12+ hours each day, missed out on quality times with their loved ones in order to afford their dream home and provide a wonderful, safe and secure life for their families. As much as I try, I cannot fault those who have made wise decisions, or even those who got lucky. You're right - any misfortunate that may befall them is fair game. screw 'em!!!! Perhaps if I were as "intelligent" and as "educated" as you, then I could feel your jealousy, envy and contempt.



But, alas, I am not, so I cannot. You win.



Could someone, especially from a higher level, please recommend a good psychiatrist so that I can address my lack of jealousy, envy and hate? please!



Forever in your debt blackacre,

TR4
 
What caused the fire?



Not to get <a href="http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/forums/viewthread/1084/">the crazies out again</a>, but this fire was right next to the old coyote canyon dump site.
 
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