Porcelain Tile Flooring - Sharp Edges after install?

[irvinehomeowner]

Sanded grout with rectified tiles is not a good mix.

You can look it up but the reason why rectified tiles are so sharp is because they are cut AFTER they are fired which allows for thinner grout lines. Thin grout lines uses non-sanded grout (usually a polymer) because it needs to be able to seep into the thinner space.

Sanded grout is for wider grout lines and has more "give"... if not allowed to set properly before being sponged, you will see that type of "trough effect".

You should get a flooring installer to take a look and he will explain it to you. The only reason I am familiar with this is because we had travertine in one of our houses with what they called "zero grout lines" and this was explained to us.

It's also what they like to do with wood-looking tiles to achieve a more wood look with thinner grout lines (see the thread that OpenSky posted about that).

 

[socal78]

Aquabliss, what kind of grout did they use? My hunch is grout shrinkage. I've seen both sanded and non-sanded grout shrink.

This is the grout used:http://www.homedepot.com/p/Polyblend-386-Oyster-Gray-25-lb-Sanded-Grout-PBG38625/100078490

If it did shrink, would another application of grout be a potential fix?  Or will it just shrink again? 

That's the same grout I used which shrunk. Mine was just a small patch job out of the way so I didn't care. My tiles are beveled anyway. But in your case -- I would care! How far throughout the house does this tile run? Is it the entire downstairs??

 

[lnc]

Sanded grout with rectified tiles is not a good mix.

You can look it up but the reason why rectified tiles are so sharp is because they are cut AFTER they are fired which allows for thinner grout lines. Thin grout lines uses non-sanded grout (usually a polymer) because it needs to be able to seep into the thinner space.

Sanded grout is for wider grout lines and has more "give"... if not allowed to set properly before being sponged, you will see that type of "trough effect".

You should get a flooring installer to take a look and he will explain it to you. The only reason I am familiar with this is because we had travertine in one of our houses with what they called "zero grout lines" and this was explained to us.

It's also what they like to do with wood-looking tiles to achieve a more wood look with thinner grout lines (see the thread that OpenSky posted about that).

I think this is exactly what happened.  Maybe adding more grout, making a grout "ramp" from one tile to another can correct this issue.

 

[aquabliss]

Aquabliss, what kind of grout did they use? My hunch is grout shrinkage. I've seen both sanded and non-sanded grout shrink.

This is the grout used:http://www.homedepot.com/p/Polyblend-386-Oyster-Gray-25-lb-Sanded-Grout-PBG38625/100078490

If it did shrink, would another application of grout be a potential fix?  Or will it just shrink again? 

That's the same grout I used which shrunk. Mine was just a small patch job out of the way so I didn't care. My tiles are beveled anyway. But in your case -- I would care! How far throughout the house does this tile run? Is it the entire downstairs??

Yes the entire downstairs unfortunately.  At first the grout joint bothered me but after seeing it a few times I'm fine with it now but we'll be stubbing our toes all over the kitchen and living room if they don't fix this thing...

 

[aquabliss]

Sanded grout with rectified tiles is not a good mix.

You can look it up but the reason why rectified tiles are so sharp is because they are cut AFTER they are fired which allows for thinner grout lines. Thin grout lines uses non-sanded grout (usually a polymer) because it needs to be able to seep into the thinner space.

Sanded grout is for wider grout lines and has more "give"... if not allowed to set properly before being sponged, you will see that type of "trough effect".

You should get a flooring installer to take a look and he will explain it to you. The only reason I am familiar with this is because we had travertine in one of our houses with what they called "zero grout lines" and this was explained to us.

It's also what they like to do with wood-looking tiles to achieve a more wood look with thinner grout lines (see the thread that OpenSky posted about that).

I think this is exactly what happened.  Maybe adding more grout, making a grout "ramp" from one tile to another can correct this issue.

Thanks IHO and Inc., after looking at the pictures again I also think this is what happened... It does look like a trough in between tiles causing the sharp edges.

If they still think this is "normal" at the final walk through I'll probably have to try and find a flooring expert to explain it to them.

One saving grace I might have is that I chose this tile based on seeing it installed on the floor at the builders design center.  I'm 99% sure that the floor in the design center did not have this problem or I would have noticed it - which means they can't blame it on the tiles themselves. 

Anyhow, sounds like they don't want to review it fully until the paper is removed just prior to the final walk through in a couple weeks.  Will keep you posted.

 

[ps99472]

time to get ugly aguabliss, you'll need to throw a shitfest with the lead at sales, ask for his/her boss's boss's number.  just in case the boss can't help, you need someone that can fire that person to complain to.  tell them if they don't give you the contact, you can google the info anyways (I'll help).  i assume you're the majority minority in Irvine?  don't live up to the stereotype, push push push

 

[aquabliss]

time to get ugly aguabliss, you'll need to throw a shitfest with the lead at sales, ask for his/her boss's boss's number.  just in case the boss can't help, you need someone that can fire that person to complain to.  tell them if they don't give you the contact, you can google the info anyways (I'll help).  i assume you're the majority minority in Irvine?  don't live up to the stereotype, push push push

Not to worry PS9, I'm pretty good at getting ugly when the situation calls for it.  At this point, they haven't completely said there isn't a problem and they haven't refused to fix anything... So I'll give them the benefit of the doubt until they state otherwise and claim that the abnormal is normal.

I'm not the majority minority actually, but my wife is.  We look like the pictures of those families IP uses in their advertisements.

I'm thinking of bringing the kids to the first part of the walk through just to show them how those edges can be a hazard to the little ones.

 

[qwerty]

time to get ugly aguabliss, you'll need to throw a shitfest with the lead at sales, ask for his/her boss's boss's number.  just in case the boss can't help, you need someone that can fire that person to complain to.  tell them if they don't give you the contact, you can google the info anyways (I'll help).  i assume you're the majority minority in Irvine?  don't live up to the stereotype, push push push

Not to worry PS9, I'm pretty good at getting ugly when the situation calls for it.  At this point, they haven't completely said there isn't a problem and they haven't refused to fix anything... So I'll give them the benefit of the doubt until they state otherwise and claim that the abnormal is normal.

I'm not the majority minority actually, but my wife is.  We look like the pictures of those families IP uses in their advertisements.

I'm thinking of bringing the kids to the first part of the walk through just to show them how those edges can be a hazard to the little ones.

bring your kids with bandaids on their feet and tell them how they got cut on the sharp edges the day before when you were there.

 

[ps99472]

time to get ugly aguabliss, you'll need to throw a shitfest with the lead at sales, ask for his/her boss's boss's number.  just in case the boss can't help, you need someone that can fire that person to complain to.  tell them if they don't give you the contact, you can google the info anyways (I'll help).  i assume you're the majority minority in Irvine?  don't live up to the stereotype, push push push

Not to worry PS9, I'm pretty good at getting ugly when the situation calls for it.  At this point, they haven't completely said there isn't a problem and they haven't refused to fix anything... So I'll give them the benefit of the doubt until they state otherwise and claim that the abnormal is normal.

I'm not the majority minority actually, but my wife is.  We look like the pictures of those families IP uses in their advertisements.

I'm thinking of bringing the kids to the first part of the walk through just to show them how those edges can be a hazard to the little ones.

Why do all that work?  Seriously, you complained and already got shut down.  Call the boss, all it needs is some emotion behind that call.  Don't threaten with lawyers yet, some companies will stop all services if a lawsuit is mentioned (makes sense, you're gonna sue me anyways, might as well cut my losses).  Remember to focus your energy on the person that can make things happen.

 

[usctrojancpa]

As mentioned, DO NOT CLOSE UNTIL EVERYTHING IS FIXED!  I think it'd be a good idea to bring out Steve for your final walk-through inspection.  He may very well find some other things that need to be fixed that you didn't.  Next step is to take it up to the sales office and if they don't take it seriously then you escalate up to the corporate office.

 

[Chairman]

As mentioned, DO NOT CLOSE UNTIL EVERYTHING IS FIXED!  I think it'd be a good idea to bring out Steve for your final walk-through inspection.  He may very well find some other things that need to be fixed that you didn't.  Next step is to take it up to the sales office and if they don't take it seriously then you escalate up to the corporate office.

At least for me, that option didn't really work. Even if you identify all the issues during the walk through and send them Steve's report there is no way to confirm all your issues are fixed until you close and get the keys. At that point, I realized all the things they did not address and I am still working with their support team on addressing each item. To their credit they are addressing each item but it is a lengthy process and I have to submit each item into their work queue.

PM me if you want additional information.

 

[qwerty]

As mentioned, DO NOT CLOSE UNTIL EVERYTHING IS FIXED!  I think it'd be a good idea to bring out Steve for your final walk-through inspection.  He may very well find some other things that need to be fixed that you didn't.  Next step is to take it up to the sales office and if they don't take it seriously then you escalate up to the corporate office.

At least for me, that option didn't really work. Even if you identify all the issues during the walk through and send them Steve's report there is no way to confirm all your issues are fixed until you close and get the keys. At that point, I realized all the things they did not address and I am still working with their support team on addressing each item. To their credit they are addressing each item but it is a lengthy process and I have to submit each item into their work queue.

PM me if you want additional information.

certain things you can close and fix later.  the flooring thing needs to be fixed before you move in. pretty hard to fix that after move in. the problem with not getting everything fixed before closing is that you have to take time off for each damn thing. i wasnt about to that. i told them i would rather move back the close date and guess what, they pretty much fixed everything.

 

[ps99472]

@Chairman

I believe this is not iPac, so better chance to get good service.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

Send in qwerchete!!!!

 

[Chairman]

I checked my tile after you posted your pictures and my tile floor is the same way. The grout does not fill in to completely make the tile surface smooth. I don't know if this is considered an improper install. Is the grout supposed to come up all the way? Is this something that they will even address and is it worth bringing up after I've already sealed the grout myself. I didn't even realized this until I read your post and saw your pictures. Oh well... some things you just have to let go. Keep us posted on your situation and best of luck!

 

[irvinehomeowner]

@Chairman:

Are your tiles the same as aqua's? Rectified with sharp edges?

If they are rounded, the troughed grout isn't that much of an issue.

 

[Chairman]

They arent sharp. Not sure what rectified edges are but mine dont cut me or anything. They are kind of beveled.

 

[aquabliss]

I realized after looking at more tiles (Home Depot, Flooring Shops, etc) that some tiles are manufactured with very slight bevels all around the edges, probably for this reason.  Unfortunately the ones I chose are not made this way and they're already installed obviously - so a bit late for me to find this out.  In addition I've been looking at many other tile installs on other models and can't find any that have these sharp edges just sticking out like my floor has.

I still don't have an update from the builder on what they are going to do (if anything).  The last thing I have from the builder in an email is about inspecting the floor for potential re-do and they said (quoting) "we will get this handled - trust me!!!".  I don't know if that means they will handle any re-do or they will handle the inspection...

 

[lnc]

Rectified tile's edge are mechanical trimmed or cut so the tile's dimension are consistent and uniform.  Therefore, rectified tile's edge are not eased or beveled.  I do see some rectified tile's edge, although are perfect 90 degree, are quite smooth.  The beveled or rounded edge tiles are not rectified tiles. 

 

[irvinehomeowner]

Rectified tile's edge are mechanical trimmed or cut so the tile's dimension are consistent and uniform.  Therefore, rectified tile's edge are not eased or beveled.  I do see some rectified tile's edge, although are perfect 90 degree, are quite smooth.  The beveled or rounded edge tiles are not rectified tiles. 

Yep... and that's why they have to be installed with thin grout lines to minimize the exposure to the sharp edge.

@aqua: I would tell the builder that the tiles were installed with the incorrect grout thickness and that the sharp edges pose a danger to your family. Unfortunately for the builder, I think the only recourse is to re-install with either thinner (very thin) grout lines or a different tile. They might try to sell you on them buffing or grinding the edges down but that will probably damage the tile or not look very good.

Please keep us updated.