Orange Coast article

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I pay my gardener $60 a month for my 16,000 sq ft. lot. He comes once a week and does more than just mows and edges. I live in Santa Ana and my gardener is a white guy, how's that for unusual? Anyone who is paying $400 a month for gardening in Orange County is an idiot. My in-laws live on 1/2 acre and their gardener spends 4 hours a week at their house, cost is $250 per month.
 
[quote author="graphrix" date=1244099351]

My whole point wasn't to say that one is better than the other, but it was to show there are quality neighborhoods throughout OC that have many of the same benefits, some with larger lots. I get tired of the droning on and on about how special Irvine is and why everyone pays a premium to live there, when really it isn't all that special. It bugs me because it comes off as very snobbish, and some people are just down right ignorant about cities other than Irvine. I'm not saying that you come across that way, but some people do. Maybe I should just keep my mouth shut and brag about Irvine, because I really don't want the snobby ones to be my neighbor anyway. It really is a turn off to me about Irvine when people think that it is so special. Yes, it is a great city with many great benefits to it, but really there is more to OC than just Irvine.</blockquote>
How ironic.



I find on here a lot of the opposite... especially in the main blog remarks. Everyone is always bagging on Irvine and how people are stupid to pay the premiums it cost to live here. I think if you add up the number of pro-Irvine and anti-Irvine posts on this board since I've been here... you'll find it's not really as disparate as you think.



It's as much as a turn-off to me when people bash where I chose to live and tell me I have no life unless I get out of Irvine. That my totlots are stupid and the stucco boxes are blight on society. Or that because I choose to keep my family safe... I am somehow blunting their artistic development. That sounds more snobbish to me.



Are we on the same forum? Other than me... who really is going around exhalting Irvine as the Chosen City? I only do it because I'm tired of all this Irvine bashing on... oh what's this... an IRVINE housing forum.



And maybe you don't see the benefits... but somebody does... no matter how many foreclosures are looming... prices have still held here pretty well... what explains that? What is the graph theory? Ignorance? Bliss? Stupidity? It has to be more than that.



Instead of such a negative tone... why can't we just civilly compare cities to each other? Or should I start exaggerating about how much I hate Orange?
 
[quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1244100345][quote author="graphrix" date=1244099351]

My whole point wasn't to say that one is better than the other, but it was to show there are quality neighborhoods throughout OC that have many of the same benefits, some with larger lots. I get tired of the droning on and on about how special Irvine is and why everyone pays a premium to live there, when really it isn't all that special. It bugs me because it comes off as very snobbish, and some people are just down right ignorant about cities other than Irvine. I'm not saying that you come across that way, but some people do. Maybe I should just keep my mouth shut and brag about Irvine, because I really don't want the snobby ones to be my neighbor anyway. It really is a turn off to me about Irvine when people think that it is so special. Yes, it is a great city with many great benefits to it, but really there is more to OC than just Irvine.</blockquote>
How ironic.



I find on here a lot of the opposite... especially in the main blog remarks. Everyone is always bagging on Irvine and how people are stupid to pay the premiums it cost to live here. I think if you add up the number of pro-Irvine and anti-Irvine posts on this board since I've been here... you'll find it's not really as disparate as you think.



It's as much as a turn-off to me when people bash where I chose to live and tell me I have no life unless I get out of Irvine. That my totlots are stupid and the stucco boxes are blight on society. Or that because I choose to keep my family safe... I am somehow blunting their artistic development. That sounds more snobbish to me.



Are we on the same forum? Other than me... who really is going around exhalting Irvine as the Chosen City? I only do it because I'm tired of all this Irvine bashing on... oh what's this... an IRVINE housing forum.



And maybe you don't see the benefits... but somebody does... no matter how many foreclosures are looming... prices have still held here pretty well... what explains that? What is the graph theory? Ignorance? Bliss? Stupidity? It has to be more than that.



Instead of such a negative tone... why can't we just civilly compare cities to each other? Or should I start exaggerating about how much I hate Orange?</blockquote>


That's the way you choose to see it, I guess. I was merely pointing out that Irvine and other cities share many of the same benefits and faults. Why does that come across as negative? Did I bash Irvine? Not really, aside from the mello roos and calling the homes stucco boxes. Am I wrong or is that actually a fact? To each their own, but I don't see anything wrong with Irvine, and anyone who wants to live there will live in a great place. But, there are other areas that have many of the same exact benefits. I don't know if there are more haters vs. lovers of Irvine on the blog (and it's one of the reasons why I don't read or post as much on the blog), but on the forums it seems pretty balanced. Just every once in a while I need to rant when I see articles that read like an advertisement from TIC. Even the verbiage was the same as the press releases I found when I googled Ray Watson. Funny that.



I dunno why pricing has held, but it has gone down and the downward trend is still there. Maybe that is why N. Tustin hasn't come down that much, except for the pot houses. I do know that both have a lot of foreclosures looming, so it bodes well for us both. Plus RE takes a while to bottom out, and has dead cat bounces.



BTW, I wasn't directing the snob comment towards you either. I would think you would make for a cool neighbor. Me being your neighbor... not so much. Especially when I invite no_vas over to work on my car and I keep the garage open until midnight while we blast his gangsta rap collection. I like that you defend Irvine, and you defend it well. I wouldn't post as much if I didn't have you around to defend it.
 
Graph....if you are right and something like that 2,500 sq ft single level monster I posted falls back into the mid $5's, all bets are off. At that price point one could completely justify $100k or so in updates to bring that beauty into the 21st century.



And the schools are really no matter. Since my little princess is already zoned for Beckman, what's the difference if she goes to Foothill. Everyone knows most TUSD grads will probably do some prison time, anyway.
 
[quote author="graphrix" date=1244103383]That's the way you choose to see it, I guess. I was merely pointing out that Irvine and other cities share many of the same benefits and faults. Why does that come across as negative? Did I bash Irvine? Not really, aside from the mello roos and calling the homes stucco boxes. Am I wrong or is that actually a fact?

</blockquote>
Oh c'mon... I'm too lazy to search for it but I'm sure I can find tons of snark from you in regards to Irvine. Maybe it's not your intent and the extent of your posts are merely exaggerated but some look like downright Irvine hate. I know you better now... but before when we were tussling on the FCB thing... I actually thought you were trying to stab me through the screen (now I know it's just your initiation process... like how gang members jump in the noobs).

<blockquote>

To each their own, but I don't see anything wrong with Irvine, and anyone who wants to live there will live in a great place. But, there are other areas that have many of the same exact benefits.

</blockquote>
This is where I disagree. But... don't hate me because I do. We have different opinions and I don't think any less of other posters if they prefer other cities over Irvine. It's just that there seems to be a sentiment like we are stupid for paying more to live here. Like we are "ignorant" of other cities... maybe we aren't... we just prefer Irvine.

<blockquote>

I don't know if there are more haters vs. lovers of Irvine on the blog (and it's one of the reasons why I don't read or post as much on the blog), but on the forums it seems pretty balanced. Just every once in a while I need to rant when I see articles that read like an advertisement from TIC. Even the verbiage was the same as the press releases I found when I googled Ray Watson. Funny that.

</blockquote>
Actually... I'm not good with numbers but I think more of the regular posters are non-Irvine residents (roundcorners: Poll Time!). Part of me thinks because they supress the people from Irvine who would post but are afraid to get snarked on. Just remember, a ton of Irvine residents bought during the bubble and probably HELOC'ed and this site (the blog and the forums) always talk about how idiotic that was... so it follows that anyone who did that would rather not post.



Then there are those who are stupid and post anyways... like me.

<blockquote>

I dunno why pricing has held, but it has gone down and the downward trend is still there. Maybe that is why N. Tustin hasn't come down that much, except for the pot houses. I do know that both have a lot of foreclosures looming, so it bodes well for us both. Plus RE takes a while to bottom out, and has dead cat bounces.

</blockquote>
Well... that's the mystery. I still think it's the FCBs... hehe --- oh wait... I can do this now -> ;-P

<blockquote>

BTW, I wasn't directing the snob comment towards you either. I would think you would make for a cool neighbor. Me being your neighbor... not so much. Especially when I invite no_vas over to work on my car and I keep the garage open until midnight while we blast his gangsta rap collection. I like that you defend Irvine, and you defend it well. I wouldn't post as much if I didn't have you around to defend it.</blockquote>
I don't mind being labeled the Irvine Snob... it's better than the Irvine Slob (sorry Deuce).



As for neighbors... you're mixing me up with bk... he's the one who doesn't like the open visible garage with the car being worked on. And gangsta rap... c'mon... I was listening to NWA when they were just World Class Wreckin' Cru and were doing electro hip-hop.



And honestly... you have to admit that it's pretty funny to hear you complain about people praising Irvine... on an Irvine website. Where should we go do that... NorthTustinHousingBlog.com?
 
I have to tell you all - it is threads like this that has ADDICTED me to this site (much to the chagrin of my WOW-playing son). Seriously though, coming from a marketing background, every one of those publications mentioned takes in SO much money for "incentiv-ized" articles. I worked in marketing for Edwards Lifesciences, and I recall the repeated refusal to purchase space in any of them was due to how some of those can actually diminish your branding (when you have an educated and informed customer base). I love Irvine (and have learned FAR more on this site before my first home purchase that anywhere else) and plan to stay here, but have come to appreciate the living in a bubble since I have two sons. But I definitely recognize that I live in a bubble... I just enjoy it! I DO love hearing the architectural info that BK posts though. My sons and I serve internationally with our church so the differences in culture related design is intriguing - thanks for the education!
 
[quote author="zovall" date=1244066585][quote author="graphrix" date=1244040109]

<em>

5 - Irvine has more parks and open space</em>



Says who? There is plenty of open space in N. Tustin, more that will ever be advertised. Can you say Peter's canyon? Those parks and tot lots are just minutes away. And I will thank you every day I visit Peter's canyon and the parks for you paying for them in your mello roos. Sucker!

</blockquote>


My Mello Roos are paying for your park?! Damn it! Well, I guess I'm glad I take advantage of Peter's Canyon too ;)



All the marketing collateral I've seen over the last 15 years has gone on and on about how much open space there is in Irvine. Is it all a lie?



There are <a href="http://www.ci.irvine.ca.us/civica/filebank/blobdload.asp?BlobID=13673">plenty of parks and open space</a> in Irvine. Do other cities have more?

</blockquote>
So the TIC conference call transcript (thanks SoCal78) and the recent discussion of Irvine vs. the World reminded me of this thread. I found Dan Young's comments on the Open Space thing interesting:

<em>

What I?d like to address, if I could please, is one of the emails that came in on open space and specifically on trails. I was rather astounded, if I could offer a little editorial. You guys are pretty good at editorializing with each other and I?m trying not to but I?m going to offer one here. You had one writer come in and say, ?Hey, I just don?t think they?ve got a good trail system, a walking system, in the City of Irvine.? I found that a rather shocking comment. Not that I?m taking it personally, but let me tell you why I think that to be the case. I don?t know of any other city of this size in America that has a more inter-connected, extensive, city-wide, walking trail system including a ring of wilderness? dedicated wilderness? around it, as Irvine. The original Irvine Ranch was about 100,000 acres. Roughly half of that ranch is in open space, and of that portion that is in open space, about just under 40,000 acres is in wilderness open space that is directly accessible on both the north and the south of Irvine, that could take you from Irvine all the way up to Anaheim where the 91 meets the toll road, or take you down to the water?s edge in Newport Beach. In fact, if you want to try it sometime, we have something called the Mountains to the Sea Trail that runs from Anaheim to the sea and passes through Irvine and gives you a great sense of the trail system that?s in Irvine and how inter-connected and robust it is. It?s really one of the great gems of the city, is their open space system. So, if you really don?t want to take a 40 mile hike and you want to take an hour pedal around the neighborhood, you?ve got great sidewalks, community parks and trails that connect into it. I don?t care what village you?re in. All of them. If you?re taking a more robust hike and you want to move through the entirety of the north of Irvine, we?re putting in the Jeffrey Open Space Trail and you can see the first elements of that in Woodbury itself. If you really want to get aggressive, then you can get hold of the Irvine Ranch Conservancy. That will take you on a Mountains to Sea trail hike. I?ve actually done it. I was in the first group that went from the 91 and the toll road, clear down to the water?s edge and I can tell you? if you saw my picture on the website? it was no easy task. I recovered from it about two weeks later. But it was an absolutely gorgeous tour through the Irvine Ranch and you can see the extraordinary value of the natural open space as well as, and I say this to all of you in Irvine, the incredible asset that you have in that trail system within the city. I went through the city without touching a street. If you move your way around, it?s absolutely fantastic what?s happened through the master-planning process. I think it?s one of the things, along with fantastic schools, that?s created the value that we have?.

</em>

Now c'mon... even you "IrvineHaters" have to agree that's pretty cool.
 
Now I know where the 50,000 AC of open space in Irvine is really at. It is in the original boundary of The Irvine Ranch between the 91 Fwy and PCH. Land with the steepest terrains and difficult to developed is a part of the nature open space. The impossible to build land in this zone is also the most scenic and breathtaking. I applaud TIC for not using this land to build 50,000 production cliff hanger homes and dedicated the most pictureque mountain and cliffs to the nature conservancy. I also appreciate the connectivity from the mountain to the sea without interuption. I would love to walk this trail. Can someone post a map or route starting from the 91 Fwy?
 
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