Oblivious Parents

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[quote author="MojoJD" date=1256778400] The absolute WORST is screaming babies. GOD! <strong>If your brat is under 12 months and you have zero control</strong>, just avoid restaurants.</blockquote>


Mojo,



Parents generally have no "control" over infants. Parents can and should control their own actions with respect to screaming infants, such as by walking screaming babies out of the dining area of a restaurant. If you ever have kids, I'd love to be a fly on the wall when you try to reason with, or discipline, an infant.
 
[quote author="Sunshine" date=1256812810][quote author="MojoJD" date=1256778400] The absolute WORST is screaming babies. GOD! <strong>If your brat is under 12 months and you have zero control</strong>, just avoid restaurants.</blockquote>


Mojo,



Parents generally have no "control" over infants. Parents can and should control their own actions with respect to screaming infants, such as by walking screaming babies out of the dining area of a restaurant. If you ever have kids, I'd love to be a fly on the wall when you try to reason with, or discipline, an infant.</blockquote>


I was just about to say... and I don't know to adequately express my thoughts on this (not very good with words)... you don't know how much easier and more effective it is to respond to someone, especially a baby, with love than discipline / fear / shouting... you may have meant it as a joke but I did not find it humorous at all. I went with my friend last weekend to get our nails done. I was looking forward to having a relaxing day. We walk in and a baby is crying in his car seat while the mom was getting her nails done and her other little one was also nearby but quiet. The poor baby was screaming his head off and she couldn't move. I personally am not daring enough to try taking my kids to the nail salon of all places, but I understand the need to get a piece of yourself back in whatever way it was that may have lead her there... hoping, praying for a break. They were ready to take me. My friend asked if I wanted to leave since it was so loud and disruptive due to the baby. I said no. I let her go ahead and asked the mom if it's ok I hold the baby. She was really surprised and agreed. I rocked the baby until her appointment was through. He was a happy little clam. If you ever have the opportunity to make a little person feel better, I hope you take it. We can't be stuck in the "it's all about me" stage. We can not choose what others do but we can choose how we respond and the lasting impressions we can make. Those chances are so much more important than a quiet dinner or a salon treatment. As I said, I'm not good with words, so I'm sorry if this does not come across as I intend it to.
 
Sacrificing your nights out at the show/movies, your mani/pedi, your dinner at your fave restaurant... that's part of the price of having kids. You don't get to inflict them on others just because you want to have a normal life again. You made the choice to have kids, I didn't force them upon you. To those of us who don't enjoy the screaming, crying, poking, yelling, staring, and otherwise annoying behavior of your diaper dwellers, all we ask is that you acknowledge that your spawn is not our burden to bear and act accordingly. I don't take my wife out to Chuck E. Cheese for dinner, don't bring your rambunctious rug-rats to a sit-down restaurant until they can sit still for at least an hour.



Also, as a middle-aged man (dammit, when did that happen?), I am not going to ask if I can "hold the baby" because I like my freedom, I have seen more than enough of the fine facilities provided by local law enforcement, and I'm not going to risk being called a "predator" in a misunderstood attempt to help hell-mom get her nails done. If you don't like the consequences and side effects of having kids, don't have them. Until then, expect the people around you to treat your squalling spawn like people used to treat smokers in a restaurant.
 
[quote author="Stuff It" date=1256369450]On a related note; My brother was married in a church in England and the vicar banned babies from attending since they might disrupt his service. He allowed children but not babies. This didn't make any sense to me since I thought churches were supposed to be 'family' occasions. My wife almost refused to go because of this</blockquote>


When I lived in Florence, Italy there was a real lack of child presence in everyday life. Parents ran errands, grocery shopped, dined, solo most of the time. Children walking down the street were quite and kept close to their parents (and it was rare that I would even see children walking through town). I found this odd. I guess because I had bought into this big Italian family stereotype. I took my children where ever regardless. But we never really did feel at ease in many places. Even when we went shopping in a toy store for Christmas I got this vibe that I shouldn't have brought my kids in this toy store for gawd sakes. Toy store aren't kids you know. It was weird.



One of the first things the kids and I did when we moved back was visit a book store. I had a new sense of gratitude that my kids were welcome to browse and read the books and how natural it was for them to be there with me. I never really thought much of it before but our society is so much more accomendating towards children. Some do take advantage of this. But I thought the other extreme was far worse. A childless society is kind of gloomy. I like seeing child in places being silly and happy.
 
[quote author="Nude" date=1256814665]Sacrificing your nights out at the show/movies, your mani/pedi, your dinner at your fave restaurant... that's part of the price of having kids. You don't get to inflict them on others just because you want to have a normal life again. You made the choice to have kids, I didn't force them upon you. To those of us who don't enjoy the screaming, crying, poking, yelling, staring, and otherwise annoying behavior of your diaper dwellers, all we ask is that you acknowledge that your spawn is not our burden to bear and act accordingly. I don't take my wife out to Chuck E. Cheese for dinner, don't bring your rambunctious rug-rats to a sit-down restaurant until they can sit still for at least an hour.



Also, as <strong>a middle-aged man</strong> (dammit, when did that happen?), I am not going to ask if I can "hold the baby" because I like my freedom, I have seen more than enough of the fine facilities provided by local law enforcement, and I'm not going to risk being called a "predator" in a misunderstood attempt to help hell-mom get her nails done. If you don't like the consequences and side effects of having kids, don't have them. Until then, expect the people around you to treat your squalling spawn like people used to treat smokers in a restaurant.</blockquote>


You are not a middle aged man, I refuse to believe that because then I'd be an old lady.



I think that what SoCal did goes way over and beyond the call of duty but it was very kind and generous. I have taken my son to the nail salon a few times in the last year but he has always sat quietly working on a maze book while he waited (20 min. tops). I too, have cringed through nail appointments while women rocked their infant in a carrier on the floor with their feet while their other 1 or 2 children ran around the place. I really don't appreciate that either. I do sympathize with the fact that sometimes it's either take a child with you or don't go. Most of the time, I have chosen not to go, the little things I took for granted in the past are such luxuries now. Yes, we did choose to have kids and I'm sure that the majority of us try not to have our child inconvenience others, but the fact remains that they truly are little people who are a part of our world and will grow up to take care of all of us (yes, even those of you without kids). This is their time to practice for the day when they become an adult, no one learns that without making mistakes and without actually being out in the world. If someone has chosen not to have kids, fine, I respect that choice, at times I really wish more people would make that choice. But the thought that you will never be inconvenienced by their existence is a bit too much to expect. We seriously can't hide in the house with them all day.



Before you go all crazy on me, Nude, I am not saying that I do not understand your point of view. My kids have been to sit down dinners in restaurants since before they could sit up on their own. They know how to behave now because they've had a lot of practice. Sometimes practicing at home just isn't the same, they needed to learn how to behave in the real setting. It hasn't always been a joy to go out to eat, in fact, I recall one lovely evening when we had to go home before we ever got a chance to eat (all due to the fact that the waiter/kitchen staff forgot that I asked for no red sauce on the pasta, just butter and and some parmesan, the scene that ensued was truly ugly). These things happen with imperfect little beings who have yet to learn how to control their emotions.
 
[quote author="tmare" date=1256815441] This is their time to practice for the day when they become an adult, no one learns that without making mistakes and without actually being out in the world. If someone has chosen not to have kids, fine, I respect that choice, at times I really wish more people would make that choice. But the thought that you will never be inconvenienced by their existence is a bit too much to expect. We seriously can't hide in the house with them all day.</blockquote>


I'm not asking people with kids to hide them. Just exercise some discretion and common sense when choosing a destination. There are literally hundreds of restaurants to choose from, and you can choose one that is age/experience appropriate. Pick a matinee rather than a evening/night movie. Do NOT take them to places that don't provide for them, like a Salon with no child care. It's like bringing your dog to a steak house and expecting people to understand when they pee on the planters; sure the dog enjoys it and is learning to be social, but who wants to smell dog pee while tucking into a Porterhouse?



<blockquote>Before you go all crazy on me, Nude, I am not saying that I do not understand your point of view. My kids have been to sit down dinners in restaurants since before they could sit up on their own. They know how to behave now because they've had a lot of practice. Sometimes practicing at home just isn't the same, they needed to learn how to behave in the real setting. It hasn't always been a joy to go out to eat, in fact, I recall one lovely evening when we had to go home before we ever got a chance to eat (all due to the fact that the waiter/kitchen staff forgot that I asked for no red sauce on the pasta, just butter and and some parmesan, the scene that ensued was truly ugly). These things happen with imperfect little beings who have yet to learn how to control their emotions.</blockquote>


Your story only serves to further make my point: they weren't ready for that kind of restaurant and the mistake was in choosing to go there rather than some place more appropriate for the kids. Again, I am not demanding parents lock them out of sight, rather that parents teach them how to behave... in places that are more appropriate for their maturity level. Much like a teenager would be bored to tears if taken to the playland at McDonald's, don't try to teach your kids how to behave in public by bringing them to Olive Garden. You're a teacher, surely you understand the concept of graduated education. Furthermore, you don't see me demanding that children be banned from every location all the time. We hit Disneyland every year, a place where we *expect* to see kids and we *expect* them to be running amok in the morning, screaming around lunch time, and crying at night as they fight off sleep, I've never once felt like my experience there was ruined by kids. I'm not anti-kids, I'm anti-parents-who-expect-everyone-to-cosign-their-selfish-decisions because "these things happen".
 
[quote author="Nude" date=1256822307]

don't try to teach your kids how to behave in public by bringing them to Olive Garden. </blockquote>


Olive Garden is off limits? But, "When you're here, you're Family"!



Seriously, is Olive Garden considered a fine dining experience around here?
 
[quote author="justbrowsing" date=1256855647][quote author="Nude" date=1256822307]

don't try to teach your kids how to behave in public by bringing them to Olive Garden. </blockquote>


Olive Garden is off limits? But, "When you're here, you're Family"!



Seriously, is Olive Garden considered a fine dining experience around here?</blockquote>


I don't know about those of you who are parents, but my boys have always been the best behaved at Olive Garden of all places. I think we have figured out it's because they bring breadsticks almost immediately after you are seated, they think they are delicious, and the eating keeps them happy and in place. Most of the locations we've visited have dim lighting and I think that makes them relaxed. When we want a quiet meal, it is pretty much our most successful place with them even since they were infants.



The other place we have good luck is at Macaroni Grill. We go there JUST because they have that white paper tablecloth-thing with crayons for all and they love coloring on it. It keeps them occupied. We actually have better luck at those two places than than any of the rowdy kid places.



Another place is Ruby's. It is always so noisy there so nobody can tell if your child is being a little loud. The boys like the boxes and stickers they give you when you are seated, to make a boat, car, etc.



Does anyone else have favored restaurants their kids do the best at?
 
[quote author="SoCal78" date=1256856389]

Does anyone else have favored restaurants their kids do the best at?</blockquote>


Chili's and BJ's are frequent fine dining stops for the CK family. Both are 5 stars in our personal Zagat guide, as they nail the key selection criteria for the daugther (free crayons and coloring book) and daddy (adult beverages available bigger than the size my head).
 
Any place that doesn't have a white tablecloth works for us. We enjoy outdoor seating much more than indoor. Crayons and coloring books are always a bonus and like SoCal said, any place that gets the kids something to nibble on quickly is great.
 
Red Robin works great because they give you a basket of fries right away and it is loud too. Their adult beverages are always really nice and cold.



Oggi's is good because it is a fairly loud environment.



Bucca is good again because it is naturally loud.



We used to like Macaroni grill but they have really changed their menu and their portions.



Claim Jumper is ok too.



B.J.s the wait is usually so long that by the time we get a table the kids are done.



We don't really take them to the nicest places because like nude said it is not really appropriate.



My biggest criteria is fast service and an accaptably loud roar in the dinning room.



I don't want to take the kids somewhere you could hear a pin drop.
 
One of my biggest criteria is that there is never a wait to be seated. I don't want to spend the precious time that my kids have patience waiting around. For this reason, Mimi's is always out.
 
[quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1256861383]Note to self: Bring kids to wherever nude is dining



We're just happy we can afford to eat out in this "lovely" economy (as I'm sure the restaurant owners are).</blockquote>


Since Nude has never been blessed with the gift of children. I will take his comments and ignore them very easily. Like talking about football and never

even been to a real game in your entire life.



You have not lived until your diaper wearing progeny has suddenly gotten

"that look" while your in a restaurant. You know whats about to happen.

Its going to be large and gaseous. All you can do is wait for the event to pass

and then head off to the restroom for the cleanup. Saddly others around also

will pick up the scent of the event.
 
[quote author="bltserv" date=1256864773]Since Nude has never been blessed with the gift of children. I will take his comments and ignore them very easily. Like talking about football and never even been to a real game in your entire life.</blockquote>


I dated strippers and cocktail waitresses exclusively for more than a decade, I've got plenty of experience with children, from newborns to elementary school age. I've done the diaper duty and the three A.M feedings and I even played Mr. Mom for a year or two. Just because I don't have kids of my own doesn't disqualify my opinion on parenting.



Back to the ignore list for you.
 
[quote author="Nude" date=1256866752][quote author="bltserv" date=1256864773]Since Nude has never been blessed with the gift of children. I will take his comments and ignore them very easily. Like talking about football and never even been to a real game in your entire life.</blockquote>


I dated strippers and cocktail waitresses exclusively for more than a decade, I've got plenty of experience with children, from newborns to elementary school age. I've done the diaper duty and the three A.M feedings and I even played Mr. Mom for a year or two. Just because I don't have kids of my own doesn't disqualify my opinion on parenting.



Back to the ignore list for you.</blockquote>


Its not the same unless they are your own. You got no skin in the game man.

Women come and go. Children are forever and ever.
 
Actually Nude's comments are very pertinent in that he gives parents the view of a person being imposed on.



IMVHO it is a parents responsibility to make sure that their children do not negatively impact other people in a public environment. If they do then then it is a parents responsibility to mitigate that as much as they can.



My kids are not perfect but when they are not I do not ignore them I do all I can to make sure that i lessen the impact.



If that means having my dinner boxed up to go so be it.



I am no more important then anyone else in that restaurant.
 
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